Do I need to size down the bullet?

[RetE8USN]

I'm just getting back into casting bullets for some obsolete/hard to find pistol ctg. It is for the 10.55mm Reichsrevolver. The bullet I am casting is 240 gr, .430 dia, multiple narrow band and drops right at that using Lyman #2. I cast some pure lead bullets to use for swagging the barrel. The bullet "lands" (barrel grooves) measure out an avg of .435. The bullet "grooves" (barrel lands) measure out an average of .416. Since this is an older gun, I want to make sure that if I need to swag/resize that I get the swagged bullet diameter correct so I don't over pressure the loads and damage/destroy the pistol. I plan on using either 3.0 to 3.6 grains of bullseye and will work the loads up in .2 grain increments keeping an eye on signs of excessive pressure as I go. i.e. flattened primer/primer edges or difficult case extraction. I was thinking that maybe I should swag/size the bullet down to .426 - tight enough to give me a good spin on the bullet but not so tight on the bore that it'll drastically increase the pressure. 15 yds is probably the max distance I'll shoot it and it won't get a lot of rounds pushed down range.

I probably know the answer, just can't kick the cobwebbs out of the gray matter to retrieve it..... LOL

[ascast]

i am always on the lazy side--shoot as cast (assuming round) and work up load slowly. I suspect your gun was well made. Your putting a .430 boolit in a .435 tube- yes? I see no problem 'cept you may want boolit bigger to seal bore.

[JSnover]

I think I'd leave them as cast. At .006" under sized you won't have any issues with pressure but you may get some leading. Have you measured the throats?

[Wayne Smith]

Lead, even wheelweight metal, is not going to damage your revolver unless it is already unsafe to fire. Cast to throats and let the forcing cone do your swaging for you if swaging is necessary. Otherwise you will get leading.

[RetE8USN]

Lead, even wheelweight metal, is not going to damage your revolver unless it is already unsafe to fire. Cast to throats and let the forcing cone do your swaging for you if swaging is necessary. Otherwise you will get leading.

Thanks everyone for their comments. Since this is a revolver, I swagged the bore from the muzzle end. Forgot all about also doing a forcing cone swage to see what that is. My .430 bullet will not freely enter the forcing cone. The chamber really doesn't have a "throat" where there is a visible "lip" where the case stops and the bullet starts but I'm going to measure it anyway just to double check everything. Probably go with a swaging die the dia of the forcing cone, just to be safe. The gun is 117 years old........

[JSnover]

I don't know much about the Reichsrevolver except that they're often called "robust." If it's in good condition and you load it to original spec you shouldn't have a problem. Enjoy shooting that cool 117 year old gun!

[reddog81]

I wouldn't size it at all. I'd put a thick layer of powder coat on and hope that it gets as close to .435 as possible. I shoot 100+ year old guns on a fairly regular basis and want them to be as accurate as possible while still being responsible. As long as you're using light loads in a serviceable gun you should be perfect safe.

That's assuming the cylinder chamber/ throats will allow. I'm not familiar with that revolver and if special precautions are necessary with a bored through cylinder (assuming that's what it has based upon post #5)

[RetE8USN]

Thanks to all that have replied. I took my pistol to my local smith for measuring. The Cylinder has a tapered chamber with the chamber being .455 and the throat is .429. With the throat being .429 that is what I'm going to size and lube the bullets to.

[mehavey]

Run pure lead to maximize bullet obturation upon firing. (Hard lead/undersize/no obturation --> leading)
Do not size at all. (Or if you do, simply size to .430 for uniformity and ease of lubing - let the cylinder throat do the rest automatically)
Use standard 50/50 lube.

[RetE8USN]

Run pure lead to maximize bullet obturation upon firing. (Hard lead/undersize/no obturation --> leading)
Do not size at all. (Or if you do, simply size to .430 for uniformity and ease of lubing - let the cylinder throat do the rest automatically)
Use standard 50/50 lube.

Thanks for the info....

[Wayne Smith]

Pure or no more than about 20-1 lead-tin mix. This makes the lead more castable. Lead pure needs higher temps to cast well and even then you may have problems getting good fill out in your mold. Adding a little tin does not change it's ability to obdurate (fill the grooves) but will make casting a little easier.

[RetE8USN]

Pure or no more than about 20-1 lead-tin mix. This makes the lead more castable. Lead pure needs higher temps to cast well and even then you may have problems getting good fill out in your mold. Adding a little tin does not change it's ability to obdurate (fill the grooves) but will make casting a little easier.

Thanks for the help. I've never cast pure lead before except to make up slugs to swage bores, and I found that you have to run the temps a lot higher to get it to flow and fill out the cavity good. Lyman #2 mixture comes out to be 19-2 ratio with 1/2 of the 2 being tin and the other 1/2 being Antimony. Don't have a hardness tester so I don't know what the reading would be on Lyman #2. I get my Lyman #2 from RotoMetals.

[Rich/WIS]

First question: is it proofed for black powder or nitro powder loads? IF BP stick to smokeless loads that do not exceed the BP pressures. By the time you see a flattened primer you are way past what the gun, even a modern one, was designed for. Sticky extraction is a bad sign but can vary wildly depending on the smoothness of the chamber walls and is not a reliable indicator of pressure. "Robust" refers to the construction but is not meaningful in terms of what pressures it will withstan

[mehavey]

Rotometals #2 is exactly BN 14.9- 15.0 -- too hard (way too hard) for what you intend.

Cast pure lead at 750-780 (I do it all the time) and you will be fine..

[RetE8USN]

First question: is it proofed for black powder or nitro powder loads? IF BP stick to smokeless loads that do not exceed the BP pressures. By the time you see a flattened primer you are way past what the gun, even a modern one, was designed for. Sticky extraction is a bad sign but can vary wildly depending on the smoothness of the chamber walls and is not a reliable indicator of pressure. "Robust" refers to the construction but is not meaningful in terms of what pressures it will withstan

Thanks Rich for the info. I am aware of sticking to the pressures of BP with the smokeless but without a means of testing what pressures are being created it will be difficult. There is not much available on the internet about Prussian proof marks. I am waiting for delivery of a book written by Heinrich Harder about the Reichsrevolver. The book has pictures of the markings that were used on the revolver and they have English translations. Hopefully it will have the "Proof" marks that will tell me what it was proofed for. The pistols was used during both WW1 and WW2, by various German Imperial Units in WW1 and German police in WW2. Right now I am just gathering as much information as I can about the revolver and the loadings that were used throughout it's "career".

I need to find a reference on BP to smokeless powder pressures. Matching the FPS, with the same weight of bullet, the BP loads made is the easy part. It would also be a help to know which type of BP was used, what the charge weight was, and what the equilevant current BP is. I have a lot more research to do before the 1st round goes down the barrel.....

[RetE8USN]

I got around to doing some more research this morning and found some real useful information on this link - yes it is about the .44 Russian, but the 10.55mm Reichsrevolver ctg is almost totally identical. Roy Jinks in his book says that the S&W .44 Russian 3rd Model frames were all built prior to 1898 and for BP. Like I said - a lot of good info here....

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44russ.htm

[RetE8USN]

Over the course of this thread we have discussed many different facets of reloading an obsolete cartridge with smokeless powders. A part of these threads dealt with pressure and looking for signs of excessive pressures. In my quest for obtaining as much information as I could about watching for signs that max or over max pressures were present I found a link to a well know resource on the subject matter. The attached pictures were captured from John Wooters book "The Complete Handloader for Rifles, Handguns and Shotguns cir 1988. The pictures are provided here for information purposes only. I found the whole book to be a wealth of information on handloading and am going to try and locate a copy for my bookshelf.

Also mentioned in another source was Major George Nonte's book Home Guide to Cartridge Conversion. I will also be looking for more information on that as well.

210999 211000

[Rich/WIS]

Couldn't find a reference for the round in question but did find BP loads for 44 Special. Old Hogdon booklet gave 18-22 grains of Pyrodex CTG, which in their preamble they equate to FFG. Did find nitro loads for 44 Russian in the new Lee manual, but none were for Bullseye.

[RetE8USN]

Couldn't find a reference for the round in question but did find BP loads for 44 Special. Old Hogdon booklet gave 18-22 grains of Pyrodex CTG, which in their preamble they equate to FFG. Did find nitro loads for 44 Russian in the new Lee manual, but none were for Bullseye.

Were they for Unique?

[Rich/WIS]

No Unique either. HP38, Universal, Titegroup, Clays and Trial Boss. Had loads for 165, 200 and 240 grain lead bullets.

[RetE8USN]

No Unique either. HP38, Universal, Titegroup, Clays and Trial Boss. Had loads for 165, 200 and 240 grain lead bullets.

Thanks for the info Rich. I have a real old Lyman reloading book. The front cover is missing so I don't know which edition it is, but on the back page it refers to Lyman as The Lyman Gun Sight Corp., Middlefield, Conn. So it was printed before we changed to 2 letter state identicifation. It doesn't show any of the powders you listed, but does show Bullseye and Unique loads for the .44 Russian, 250gr bullet. I'm still searching for old loading manuals on-line to see what I can find. I've use to use a lot of HP38. Canyou send me the load data from the book for that? Appreciate it.

[Rich/WIS]

PM sent for address.