Young Loaders and Lack of Knowledge

[salpal48]

Recently a Shooting Friend Asked me to teach his son to load. I agreed, well the son was about 30. I knew Thing were not going right when He asked to see my auto press I told him the only ones I had was My stars and RL 300.
Thing went downhill from There. He asked if I was Certified. I said no but I have 55 years of Loading Under my Belt.
So i started with a Few intro's on My single stage. He said He did not have time on those old machines.. I gave him a List of Books to Read and he could Borrow mine if he wanted.. His answer was He has been Reading stuff On the web.

The final straw was he Only needed someone To show Him how to set a Progressive up when he got it and just Pull the handle Down. I saw this was not going well and wished him Good luck on his new Hobby.
told my Fried let me Know How he makes out

[country gent]

There are very few in that age bracket and under that don't want it done for them or the quick easy short cuts. I have seen new hand loaders that refused to deburr or chamfer a case mouth, saying if it was needed the die would do it. The misinformation they've learned and read between articles and internet is amazing in a way. Ive been told the crimp on primers was to make the case non reloadable by some. I load and shoot several wild cats formed from other brass and that really gets these guys going. One was shooting a 300 wsm when I was working on a wildcat rifle. we were talking he looked at my brass and I'm shooting 300 wsm also. I replied mine was a 6.5MM wildcat that the case was shortened on. He went and got one of his cases and couldn't understand why mine were different than his LOL. I hve seen it and the ones that start with the progressives usually never become true hand loaders but are remanufacturers just filling cases to shoot.

[JSnover]

Certified?

[myg30]

Sorry you were let down by your friends son. Seems everything these days has to be New, fast, and automated. If and when, he has his first mis-hap and it’s more a matter of when, he might hear the echo of your words !
I’ve posted this in the past but nothing burns my butt more then “new” reloaders asking for others “Best load data” for xyz caliber and then, some...., give it out “Without warning”or the importantance of working up your load.
Another one is “How fast can I” and not the question “Is there a better safer way to...” .

Yes there are a few that recommend a powder they use, bullet weight and no load data and suggest reading books and manufactures recommended load data for min max charges.
Safty is always the most important info that can and should be passed along.
A new year is upon us and we all should stress the importance of safty to all the new younger generation. It’s their choice to listen and believe it’s for their safty and others around them at the range.

Merry Christmas to all, Be safe and God Bless the USA.

Mike

[JSnover]

I taught myself because I didn't know any reloaders but I had learned enough about guns and ammunition to know there was a lot more to it than just stuff 'em and shoot 'em. I read a handful of books and plenty of magazine articles before I bought any equipment.

[richhodg66]

I've always been afraid of progressive presses. I'll get some disagreement, but I simply won't ever own or use one. I personally don't like any device that doesn't require a conscious decision to make something happen for the most part. I'm about the only guy I know who drives a vehicle I have to shift gears, manuallt roll down windows and turn a metal key to open door locks on anymore.

There are a surprising number of shooting enthusiasts who have no clue about interior ballistics or how things work. Most seem to believe there is some kind of voodoo involved with reloading ammo. Some of the things I hear about I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[opos]

My days at the bench started back in the late 50's....there were not many reloaders in our area...very little information and components and equipment was scarce...fortunately people were friendlier, more willing to teach and learn, more willing to share experiences and more willing to lend things besides knowledge.

We had a group of about 6 guys that all hunted and we began loading about the same time...we borrowed, loaned, shared equipment...we group bought components and shared things around and we put a lot of thought into the factors for developing loads, etc.....I still use a single stage press and a balance beam scale for much of my loading...that and a Lee Classic Turret press....I see posts about "How many rounds do you load an hour?", etc....I've just not cared....I load what I want in whatever period I want and that's it...example is that I just bought some nice brass (police range once fired 9mm and .40...it's beautiful stuff....but every piece is getting the look see...it's being examined and counted...took a bunch of time yesterday and today...so what? If I wasn't doing that I'd probably be wasting time somewhere else....I love to tinker with reloading and I don't measure pleasure with how many rounds fly through some automated piece of machinery....Slow and easy wins the race every time.

[Beerd]

I'm about the only guy I know who drives a vehicle I have to shift gears, manuallt roll down windows and turn a metal key to open door locks on anymore.

I didn't think they still made 'em like that.
..

[osteodoc08]

Unfortunate that you had such an experience especially when it was you that took your time and your experience and this young novice had no respect for it. There was a thread about this somewhere in the remote past where the novice came back around and showed more interest and ended well, however, it seems this kid just wanted to be shown how to set up a press and churn out blasting ammo.

[salpal48]

I don't Think It was a lack of Respect. All younger people know I think It's what They see In video's. The machine goes around and the loader is Just pulling The handle. No skill Required.
What skill do You need . Why read, Why learn. Just pull the machine does it all

[JSnover]

On the upside, when things don't work out and some of these folks give up, there might be a pretty good deal to be had on slightly used equipment: "I never could get it to work, faster and easier to just buy ammo by the case."

[farmerjim]

I didn't think they still made 'em like that.
..

You have to special order them. My 2500 silverado is a 5 speed manual. Crank up the windows and keys for the door. Every car and truck I have bought was a manual trans. The only automatics I have ever had were given to me as pass me downs. It is amazing how many can't drive a standard shift.

[farmerjim]

On the upside, when things don't work out and some of these folks give up, there might be a pretty good deal to be had on slightly used equipment: "I never could get it to work, faster and easier to just buy ammo by the case."

They may have too much trouble working it with one hand.

[Hannibal]

Sometimes a person has to make a few mistakes to realize the error of their thinking. I look around my reloading room all the time and see stuff I bought I didn't need, stuff I had to fix because I didn't know how to use it correctly, and stuff that was just simply a bad idea to begin with.
I had no mentors locally, what I know I've learned from forums such as this one and making mistakes. Someone will probably come along and take me to task for this, but making mistakes is part of the learning process. If anyone here has never made any mistakes, then I don't know why they are wasting their time on forums such as this one with us mere mortals.
After this new loader makes a few mistakes, I imagine he'll be much more receptive to advice in the future, or proclaim reloading a waste of his time and move on to something else more fitting to someone with no patience and a lack of focus.

[Tom W.]

The closest thing I ever had to a progressive press was a three holer Lee turret press I bought 35-40 years ago. I had to manually index it. One cartridge at a time. I traded it for a Lee O -style press, then bought an RCBS Rockchucker and gave the Lee to a fellow in the Mobile area who was starting out. I managed to teach two of my sons how to handload, the other just buys components and tells his younger brother what he needs. I've never tried to teach anyone else.....

[big bore 99]

Another old schooler here. I still do a single stage after many years and drive a stick 6 spd Jeep with roll down windows, no air and
no automatic door openers. I shoot mostly single shots and enjoy my reloading sessions.

[HangFireW8]

Impatient young men have always existed. I see them as a source for lightly used equipment, a few more years down the road.

[MaryB]

I have a lee turret press but I run it manually and load 50 cases at a time doing the same step 50 times then turn the head. I do like the advantage of having my AR plinking ammo head all setup and I just need to drop it in and go.

[lightman]

Recently a Shooting Friend Asked me to teach his son to load. I agreed, well the son was about 30. I knew Thing were not going right when He asked to see my auto press I told him the only ones I had was My stars and RL 300.
Thing went downhill from There. He asked if I was Certified. I said no but I have 55 years of Loading Under my Belt.
So i started with a Few intro's on My single stage. He said He did not have time on those old machines.. I gave him a List of Books to Read and he could Borrow mine if he wanted.. His answer was He has been Reading stuff On the web.

The final straw was he Only needed someone To show Him how to set a Progressive up when he got it and just Pull the handle Down. I saw this was not going well and wished him Good luck on his new Hobby.
told my Fried let me Know How he makes out

Thats sad that he did not take the opportunity to draw from your experience, but this seems to be the new normal. Maybe he will learn without hurting something and he may not. Time will tell.

Some of the stuff that I see on Ytube really gripes me! Guys smelting lead wearing shorts and sandals and talking like experts! Dumb and Dumber stuff like that ate worse!

[Gaseous Maximus]

I've always been afraid of progressive presses. I'll get some disagreement, but I simply won't ever own or use one. I personally don't like any device that doesn't require a conscious decision to make something happen for the most part. I'm about the only guy I know who drives a vehicle I have to shift gears, manuallt roll down windows and turn a metal key to open door locks on anymore.

There are a surprising number of shooting enthusiasts who have no clue about interior ballistics or how things work. Most seem to believe there is some kind of voodoo involved with reloading ammo. Some of the things I hear about I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I agree with your thoughts, even though I own and use a couple pro 1000's. [ 9mm and 38 spc. ]. Actually I haven't used the 38 yet. However the 9mm press helped me to ruin a star super, no powder, followed by a fully loaded one. Yes it was doubly my fault, however I fill like it probably wouldn't have happened , had I been loading with a single stage press.

[kmrra]

I have seen a increase of young loaders around here this past year, But while I hang out at the LGS here everyday and I would say that 80 percent of them would say they wont shoot them if they were given to them, I try to educate them but it doesn't do much good. while I might be leary of hand loads from someone I dont know , but of all the 50 or 60 that I do know I wouldn't hesitate to shoot any of those. I will say that while i May be careless in something that I do , I am extra cautious when it come to reloading , My dad tough me that from the get go. thats just my 2 cents worth

[M-Tecs]

250,000 plus loaded on Dillon 450's, 550's, 650's, rl 1000 and a couple of 1050's with zero issues. If I had to load that volume on a single station I would have taken up golf.

[JSnover]

They may have too much trouble working it with one hand.

I know, too hard to load and text at the same time...

[Duckiller]

I have a Nissan Extra with a five speed manual. I am too old for such foolishness. For me and my wife's security we buy vehicles with power windows and power door locks. Current vehicles have automatic door locks, got 10 feet and all door are locked. Don't want to be car jacked. I was taught to reload by an uncle when I was about 15 years old. Two uncles and my father bought a Herters press, powder measure and dies. My brother and I learned loading ammo for my father. Both sons know how to reload, but let dad do it. Daughter has done some reloading. I would agree that single stage presses are the way to go unless you are a competitive handgun shooter. My rockchucker can keep me well supplied in paper punching ammo. While all my children are now in their 30's they did learn before they were 10. Late high school before they loaded unsupervised.

[GRUMPA]

It's a vicious circle that develops when teaching people in todays world. I would say 100% talk about reloading, but about .03% know the basics. In todays world there's the "instant" generation, and that's kinda self explanitory.

Trying to get the "NOVICE" to wrap there noodle around the importance of knowledge and abilities is rather difficult.

It finally boils down to how determined they are to learn a "CRAFT" that in the long run benefits themselves. That right there is something they as an individual......they themselves have to answer. The "INSTANT" generation wont change until..........they actually have to.

[reddog81]

My Hornady Lock N Load came with a manual, a video, and there are YouTube videos out here that will show you how to set it up.... Of course that's all useless if you don't understand he fundementals of reloading.

I'm only a couple years older than the son in the OP and probably started relaoding at about that same age. I don't regret starting on a single stage press, but at this point in time I'd find it difficult to live without a progressive. Once you've got the press setup it's no harder to get the dies adjusted. With a progressive you only touch each piece of brass once and the chance of screwing something up diminishes substantially.

Hopefully the kid in question realizes the generosity of your offer and comes back to learn the basics. Either that or maybe he'll just give up and never get around to starting.

[mtnman31]

My Grandfather taught me basic reloading as a teen in the late 80's. I taught myself all the advanced techniques. I'm now in my early 40's. I haven't had the pleasure of mentoring a "new" reloader. I have helped many friends through issues and problems in their own reloading adventures.

My casting was all self-taught with the assistance/tutelage of the fine membership of this site.

[Driver33]

I have helped 2 people learn how to reload. One is a friend who is 4 years older than myself an has followed my instructions to the letter . The other just turned 16 an would be a lot better off if he didn't have access to youtube.

[Geezer in NH]

I would tell that Anus go away now, do not come back.

By the way the Dad would no longer be a friend or acknowledge for anything.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Shortly after we were married my wife and I moved close to a man who was kind enough to get me started down the reloading road that I have been on the past 60 years. I tried two progressive machines, one, the infamous RCBS Green Machine and the other the Lee 1000. I very quickly gave up on both. The nearest thing I have to a progressive or two Lyman presses with rotary die holders. I don't remember the name but you know what I mean. I did drill and tap the die holders for a handle with a ball on it to make them easier to turn. I have taught a few men to reload but not many. Most young folks would rather just buy their ammo. Nice I guess, if you have the scratch.

[M-Tecs]

I mentor 3 or 4 people a year on reloading. Started teaching others in the mid 70's and only taught a couple in the 80's but since the 90's I can't remember a year with less than 2 except for 2003 and 2008. Was in the sandbox for most of the time.

Depending on the person and usage starting with a progressive may be the best option. I haven't noticed more stupid people today verse the mid 70's.

[bpatterson84]

Welp, I'm 33, and have been reloading, wildcatting and casting for 5 years now, and I, too, will not "teach" someone reloading. If you're not self motivated enough to come at this hobby organically, you should continue to patronize the walmart ammo counter. I will however, and with enthusiasm, recommend particular books, and even loan out on occasion, and after reading ANY reloading manual I don't mind any sort of questions or helping. You have to want this, it's not good to get into to simply save a buck.

[Strtspdlx]

Unfortunately this is just the way the world works. Some people have it all handed to them and expect it in every aspect of.life, while others take value of their life and the work needed to get where they are. Not everyone starts with a few million in the bank and every step ahead of someone else. But I'm happy I earned where I am. It's not just reloading. It's a mindset and a respect of your life and the work and knowledge it takes to do anything correctly. And unfortunately there's nothing you can do to change that. Just keep trying to help and share the knowledge. I know I'd be very lucky to have someone try to show me or teach me about reloading. But I also try to be humble and learn something from everyone I meet. Wether it's the right way or the wrong way.
Best of luck on the next one. Don't give up on my sad generation just yet.

[bpatterson84]

The real tragedy in my generation is that people think they can throw money at the problem and find a workable solution. I am aware of 4 Dillon 650's and 1 550 that are sitting in garages, still new in boxes, and have been for 3-5 years. 2 of them are accompanied by a complete set of peripheral reloading equipment, multiple sets of dies, powder and primers. No desire to learn. No effort to set them up. "But I thought I'd get free ammo!" Me-"Naw son."

[762 shooter]

You can lead a horse to drink, but you can't make him water.

762

[45workhorse]

You can lead a horse to drink, but you can't make him water.

762

You can BUT, I'm not going to be the one that flips the tail out of the way and sucks his *******.

[Hannibal]

I would tell that Anus go away now, do not come back.

By the way the Dad would no longer be a friend or acknowledge for anything.

Kick your friend down the road because his son won't listen?

Wow.

How's the air up on that pedestal?

[bob208]

I bought a lyman loading manual in fact still have it. read it a few times. then tried a easy cartage (.38 spl ) nothing blew up I have been doing it ever since. that was in 72.

[EMC45]

I had led quite a few people to reloading. I have also encountered folks like above both in person and "online". I remember teaching someone once how to reload. Or I thought I was. He couldn't stay off his phone texting and then proclaimed to me that he didn't have time to reload and that he would get me to reload his ammo for him. I was kinda peeved about that. That ended that

[Geezer in NH]

Kick your friend down the road because his son won't listen?

Wow.

How's the air up on that pedestal?Way it is his son learned it from somewhere and being dissed like that cuts all threads to me. I have standards they seem not to. Period. Have a nice Christmas eve by the way.

[Hannibal]

Way it is his son learned it from somewhere and being dissed like that cuts all threads to me. I have standards they seem not to. Period. Have a nice Christmas eve by the way.

I've found it ain't nearly that easy. Wish my children would all respond as I'd like. Oddly enough, the act as if they have minds of their own . . . .

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

[lefty o]

that kind of behavior is a product of the "me" generation, thankfully they arent all like that. sadly when it comes to reloading, it is not the place for the instant gratification, and will probably result in the "me" injuring himself or someone else.
as for the certified, no such thing, heck i worked in the factory of one of the big 3 ammo makers, and im not a certified reloader LOL . anyone i see into the instant gratification, i steer them towards the store so they can buy factory ammo, because reloading is not for them whether or not they realize it.

[merlin101]

My son in law wanted to get started reloading so I gave him Lyman single stage with dies, powder, primers and some bullets along with a manual and another book or two, two years later I got everything back unused. Now he complains how he can't afford to go shooting!

[nicholst55]

I taught myself because I didn't know any reloaders but I had learned enough about guns and ammunition to know there was a lot more to it than just stuff 'em and shoot 'em. I read a handful of books and plenty of magazine articles before I bought any equipment.

This. I was taught to reload by Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton, Dean Grennell, and folks like them. I didn't know anyone who reloaded at the time, so it was up to me if I was going to learn. I started out with a whack-a-molie Lee Loader, and quickly transitioned to an RCBS Jr. I made my share of mistakes, but I still have all my fingers and eyes (some 45 years later), and I've never blown up a gun.

I agree with others that I am troubled by beginners asking questions like 'How accurate is gun X in caliber Y?' Or, 'What's the most accurate load for gun X in caliber y?' Or, 'What powder do I need for bullet X in caliber Y?' It shows that they have done absolutely zero research, and probably haven't even purchased a reloading manual, let alone read it.

I forsee a lot of barely used equipment for sale, and a bunch of damaged guns laying around.

[shdwlkr]

Many years ago my cousin got me started reloading when we had shot up all his 30-30 ammo one day of shooting. He had a single stage press and we loaded I don't remember how many hundred of rounds with that press before I saved up enough to buy my own. His family had gotten into reloading because being farmers money was scare but one could buy the makings and save a lot of money. He is long gone now and I miss him dearly as we sort of grew up together. He was always there for me, when I came home while in the military, with my first house and wife and later when she died, then I lost him. I have never forgot his teachings and how he always stressed safety even when we hot loaded some rounds and found it wasn't worth the effort.
Yes some of the young folks of today want the newest and easiest way to do something but progressive reloading isn't the place to start or even in my book ever go to. I have seen too many primers in backwards, no powder in cartridge, to much powder, crushed cases to ever believe that is a good way to reload. So glad I grew up when things were slower and folks took the time to learn how to do most anything and pay their dues to get ahead. Now it is just memories of an old man who wonders why he is still here.

[M-Tecs]

I am really surprised by how unwilling some are about sharing their knowledge and experience. Makes me wonder if the issue is the teacher or the student?

Merry Christmas to all the non bah humbug types.

[Bazoo]

Im 34. I started reloading about 6 or 7 years ago. Im still learning all the finer details. I dont have a mentor. I've read a lot of manuals, and a lot here. I dont watch youtube videos about it, or anything else in general. I learn better through text. I know a few folks at the gun stores that reload, but they dont seem to have the time to help someone.

I have shown 2 people the process. I didnt teach them, but I showed them each step and explained briefly how and why each operation works. 1 of them, loaded a round and fired it in the coarse of about 10 or 15 minutes and says they want to get started with it. Last I heard they had downloaded a manual and was looking for a good used turret press.

I know a person that is about 50, whom is a gun fancier, that has an interesting opinion on reloading. I mentioned to him that I reloaded, and he said.. .for pistol thats fine, but for rifle its not. Something to the effect of, rifle rounds work at a higher pressure and you'll blow yourself up.

I've found that most folks, if you mention reloading to them, they are of about 2 opinions.

They think you're an idiot and going to blow yourself up.
They see dollar signs and want you to make ammo for them cheap.

I dont even mention casting... I've heard it all.

[500Linebaughbuck]

I'm about the only guy I know who drives a vehicle I have to shift gears, manuallt roll down windows and turn a metal key to open door locks on anymore.

my long lost brother!!!!!!! hallelujah!!![smilie=s:[smilie=s::bigsmyl2:


i gave away my progressives and turrets, i've gotten a lee classic and i'm very happy. i do around 1000 or so bullets every month. i can do them one at a time. i have taught 6 or 7 guys through the years. i have never taught a guy that was a bad as the op says.

[smokeywolf]

The young folks want it all easy and quick. Like engineering problems, the cause of this 'give it to me now' attitude is not caused by just one thing. This is a combination of, being raised by babysitters and preschools and not being told of the old ways (often, but not always the best ways) of doing things. They're not hearing the stories of their ancestor's lives and experiences. And, technology has made so many things faster and easier, that the youngsters expect everything to be fast and easy.
This will ultimately have a very detrimental effect on our society.

I'm afraid that if a friend wanted help learning to reload, my first instruction would have to be for him to read through the the front text portion of the Lyman Reloading Handbook. That would have to be followed by another reloading book.

[MaryB]

I taught my nephews but now they are married with kids that are under 10 years old they don't have time for it. Both have the equipment but said they won't get back into reloading until the kids are old enough to not need a lot of attention.

[JSnover]

I am really surprised by how unwilling some are about sharing their knowledge and experience. Makes me wonder if the issue is the teacher or the student?

Merry Christmas to all the non bah humbug types.

Both need to have the right attitude or it won't work. My employer made a lot of money rebuilding an auger every year because the engineers at a wastewater plant wouldn't listen to their own maintenance people.
I'll share what I know about reloading with anyone who's interested. Any teacher will tell you a willing student is the best kind, even if they're not the smartest. But there are some people I give up on because they don't really want to learn, they either just want the simplest possible answer or they can't believe what I tell them. Some of them, when they see the light, you can tell. Then you can really start to share some knowledge. Or as I like to say, no one learns anything until they're ready to.

[country gent]

Our class was told my a machine trades instructor ( trades school) The knowledge is here free for the taking, You just need to bring the container. He was a good instructor and taught a lot. not always just the basics. A good instructor mentor teacher is a big help. I have helped knew reloaders get started, new casters, and at work a few apprentices. Its always interesting to work with someone new. I actually enjoy it when the person really wants to learn. I have also had the other way and its a deflating process working with someone who dosnt want to really learn. Ive helped give reloading seminars at a local gun store ( there was a fee charged for it) and there were a few that bought in to heckle and play games amazed me.
One of the things my children learned was to never turn down training or classes at work, Knowledge is the one thing that can never be taken back or away from you. Knowledge is also one of the few things that can be shared with out losing it yourself. Once learned it always there.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Hmmmm. I've been known to ask people 'What powder do you use for bullet X in caliber Y?' but just to see if they know anything I don't. It pays off :) Been loading since 1965 or so, learned some neat tricks from others and figured others out myself, good to have more knowledge :) Things like using BLC(2) for short barreled 308 rifles (the loads I worked up, you could fire at midnight in a coal mine, no bottle flash strobing, just a few sparks of carbon - Friend wanted a non position giving away round for his 308, that did the job.) And reduced loads so you can gather Grouse etc. without scaring the big game out of the county you're in + the next 3 counties.

I've used progressive presses, they are pretty reliable, just have to do it RIGHT - Don't run them out of powder, or primers, or abuse them in any other way. I mainly use them for "run of the mill" ammo - Plinking ammo basically. I sure wouldn't understand LEARNING on one though; But when I was shooting 500-1000 rounds a weekend for the SD pistol helping instruct at a class, I learned that I NEEDED to load faster to not run out!

[Shopdog]

"you're so busy learning the tricks of the trade,you never learned the trade" is an old adage.Bares repeating.

Personally,I think it's a self actualization "rhythm" of sorts?Each individual has a certain rate at which they process new information.Young folks growing up with internet access lose the joy of the ride....focused on the destination.Crafts in general usually are best learned with foundational,building blocks.Then moving FWD.

[Thumbcocker]

https://youtu.be/MOo9iJ8RYWM

[waksupi]

My Hornady Lock N Load came with a manual, a video, and there are YouTube videos out here that will show you how to set it up.... Of course that's all useless if you don't understand he fundementals of reloading.

I'm only a couple years older than the son in the OP and probably started relaoding at about that same age. I don't regret starting on a single stage press, but at this point in time I'd find it difficult to live without a progressive. Once you've got the press setup it's no harder to get the dies adjusted. With a progressive you only touch each piece of brass once and the chance of screwing something up diminishes substantially.

Hopefully the kid in question realizes the generosity of your offer and comes back to learn the basics. Either that or maybe he'll just give up and never get around to starting.


Progressive presses have been responsible for most blown up pistols.

[lefty o]

Progressive presses have been responsible for most blown up pistols.

thats like blaming cars for drunk driving or spoons for making rosie odonnel fat.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm guessing that it shouldn't be too surprising about his attitude. There are some good kids - and I'm talking 30s and under as "kids" that were brought up right and are willing to learn from he ground up - which is how anyone should learn. He sounds like most of 'em their age - they want "instant gratification" and don't want to do the work to appreciate what it is all about. Certified? That reeks of that age group where the government has been so restrictive on regulations and everyone has to jump through hoops and pay high dollars for "certification" when a good solid instruction program would suffice but I won't go there.

Many of these kids can't even do the research - nor do they know how and they take everything on the "net" as gospel truth. When my wife finally retired from teaching, the kids would cut and paste information from the internet into a paper and think it was alright regardless of it not being "their work" and the material being copyrighted, etc. Of course they got the grade they deserved for all of their "hard work" - and then their parents would complain as even they didn't see anything wrong with it. Math? If these kids don't have a calculator they don't know how to get the answer. Cursive writing? Why do they need that? It's a sad state of affairs.

Hey - you tried but you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Somewhere along the line that young man will learn that there isn't a "easy way" in anything in life and just because he can afford a progressive (probably charged on a credit card because he can't really afford it) doesn't mean he should be using one. Sort of reminds me of all these young ones who rush to get married and then have kids and end up in divorce - they don't know that a good marriage is work like anything else as well as all the things that go with newly married couples - living within their budget and putting their spouse before themselves.

I was brought up on a farm like many of you folks. When I was a kid, I wanted a horse or a pony in the worst way. My Dad loved horses and we usually had one or two - but when I expressed my interest in having one to ride, my Dad said I had a few things to learn about them before I could ride one. He introduced me to a six tine fork and showed me how to muck out the stalls - and for good measure and to gain experience, he let me do the same for the cows. I was introduced to the proper way to feed them as well - hauling hay, grain and making sure the water tanks were always full and clean for them so they always had water. Didn't matter if it was warm weather or freezing cold, it was my job to do those tasks. Along the way, he would teach me things when he thought I was ready - taking care of the tack, oiling harnesses, etc. Finally, I was allowed to ride - and on one of my very first rides I got bucked off into a manure pile and ended up with a mouth full. But I got back on. At the time, I thought my Dad was a little hard on me at times but he taught me the value of working hard and doing a job right - and I didn't start at the bottom. Funny thing, many years have passed, I don't have livestock anymore and I'm too old and afraid of breaking bones if thrown from a horse - but I really miss the smells of a stall and the steam from the soiled straw on a freezing cold day - the smell of a horse and the feel of their coats after a good brushing - combing their manes and tails out and walking them and talking to them when cooling them down - but most of all, I miss my Dad. He taught me that you start at the bottom and work up and to never think "you know it all".

You tried . . . you should feel good about that . . . the kid is the loser and unfortunately, I doubt he even knows it.

[Down South]

Certified?
Very possible. The NRA offers certified instructors courses in reloading.

[Down South]

250,000 plus loaded on Dillon 450's, 550's, 650's, rl 1000 and a couple of 1050's with zero issues. If I had to load that volume on a single station I would have taken up golf.
Somewhat the same here. I have a couple Dillon 550's for reloading handgun ammo and some rifle ammo. One is set up for lg primers and the other small primers.

For my hunting rifles, I use my old RCBS Rockchucker. When loading for hunting rifles, I'm building precision ammo that fits the rifle. I could probably do that on a progressive but I'd rather load those rds one at a time.

Getting back to topic. I've been loading for over 40 yrs now. I had little instruction from a couple buddies when I started out. Most of my education and knowledge came from studying reloading manuals and good articles.
I've acquired a lot of reloading equipment and tools through the years.

My problem with new potential reloaders is I don't ever see any of them. I trained one guy back about 6 years ago to load 9mm handgun ammo. I had a guy that works with me buy a press, manuals, dies and components but I still don't think he has ever took the stuff out of the boxes. I think he only wanted the reloading setup in the case the **** hit the fan.

[zymguy]

Ive been watching my father reload for as long as i can remember. I dont know when i really started. I was sorting brass and doing case prep well before i was phisically large enough to fire some of the brass i was prepping. I think that if you dont find the act of reloading itself enjoyable your prob better off buying the ammo. Thats the advice i share to those who ask me to help get them started

[richhodg66]

Ive been watching my father reload for as long as i can remember. I dont know when i really started. I was sorting brass and doing case prep well before i was phisically large enough to fire some of the brass i was prepping. I think that if you dont find the act of reloading itself enjoyable your prob better off buying the ammo. Thats the advice i share to those who ask me to help get them started

This is my situation too, I was somewhat immersed in it from before I can remember. I shot a lot as a kid, but was generally Ok with letting Dad do the reloading, LOL. I did help and also learned a lot of the processes, but didn't take it up as an interest until I was grown up and gone. Dad got me a reloading set up after I got back from Desert Storm, as we'd been corresponding via letters the whole time and mentioned I wanted to get a serious hunting rifle and start working with it. Don't have the rifle anymore, but still have the Rockchucker and it's my main reloading tool still. Everybody should start with a quality single stage press, but more importantly, everybody should have and appreciate a mentor when they start.

[lightman]

Kudos to you guys that have taught others to load, or tried to. Hand loading or reloading is not for everyone. Most of us love it and shoot to reload. Others of us reload to shoot more. There are a few who just don't enjoy it and unfortunately a few who just should not do it. Personally I enjoy sharing my knowledge but I would have trouble with an arrogant or rude young person.

[pwc]

This is really good to hear. I was beginining to think dinosaurs and I had something in common. I still have and use my first press bought used, a Pacific, older than me (73) it has the complete primer attchment, primer set up for large and small primers, and both tubes. two dedicated rams; 30-06 and 38 spl. I bought a RCBS ram to accept the shell holder for other calibers. I also have a Herter press that was given to me about 15 years ago, but I don't have room in my loading closet for two presses.

Reading the other shooting forums most posters talk about their progressives. Reloading is a relaxing thing for me, and I've never had a empty round, a double charge, a reversed primer or a primer that wasn't seated. I may do case prep, priming and crimping over a period of time, but when the powder goes in, the case isn't set down until the bullet is seated.

Single stage dinosaurs, unite! Merry Christmas to all!

[jonp]

I taught myself because I didn't know any reloaders but I had learned enough about guns and ammunition to know there was a lot more to it than just stuff 'em and shoot 'em. I read a handful of books and plenty of magazine articles before I bought any equipment.

Taught myself, too. No one to show me so I bought a Lymans and read it over and over, bought some powder and a Lee Loader and went to work. I admit I did kinda cringe when I pulled the trigger on that first round but I was hooked right there and then when it actually worked. The one thing I did right was start at min and also use a Blackhawk. I would have had to seriously screw up to blow that revolver up.

[andre3k]

I think he only wanted the reloading setup in the case the **** hit the fan.

Won't do him much good then. That's not the time to pull the press from the box and start reading the manual.

[dverna]

Progressive presses have been responsible for most blown up pistols.

But, unless someone is very well off, it will be nearly impossible to become a competitive pistol shooter without one.

I used to load 20,000 rounds a year.

It is why it is important to factor in why someone is reloading and the quantity they shoot before offering advice.

All my rifle loads are done on single stage presses. My hunting 28 ga loads on a PW 375. Everything else on progressive machines.

More to the point of this thread. Most reloaders are not doing this for the “joy” of the exercise. They want safe but less expensive ammunition. Some want better ammunition than they can purchase.

If you saddle the typical 9mm shooter with a single stage press, they will not reload for long. There is a reason they sell 9mm in bulk packs. Most guys shooting .460’s can not shoot a box at one sitting anyway. They have no need or desire for loading a couple of hundred at a time.

Regardless, if anyone does not want to learn or expects instant gratification, reloading is not for them. Running a progressive safely is not rocket science but the operator needs to know the process. That knowledge is not gained overnight

[dpoe001]

I have a young friend i met at work. The funny part is his cousin was at my house daily (he was best friends with my son).We shoot together once in a while, i helped him rebuild his motorcycle. He asked me to teach him how to reload, so this friday we will see how this goes i don't see any problems because he listened and asked questions that made sense when i was rewiring his bike. his welding skills are out of awesome.

[clum553946]

I didn't think they still made 'em like that.
..

I’ll bet he has a killer classic car!

[nicholst55]

Very possible. The NRA offers certified instructors courses in reloading.

As do some other sources.

[JBinMN]

Who certified the ones who certified the certified instructors?
;)

[richhodg66]

I’ll bet he has a killer classic car!

LOL, nope. 2001 plain jane Nissan truck. Fourth one I've owned in 26 years, the last two went well past 200K and still had considerable life left in them when I got rid of them, so at the rate this one is going, I may be driving it til I can't drive anymore.

I like simple things.

[Hannibal]

I guess it all depends on what you know. I remember carburetors, drum brakes, distributors, points and condensers, coil spring suspensions, bias ply tires, ethyl, more road noise than a sane person could stand and frankly, I don't miss none of it.

But I work on fuel-injected diesel-electric locomotives every day, so this stuff doesn't intimidate me. But I've always had a bit of a different attitude than most folks. I figure if somethin's broke, what am I gonna do? Make it 'broker'? So what?
The same applies to guns. They are actually simple machines, albeit some things have to be maintained 'just so'. The cartridge/powder projectile are what make guns different and 'special'.

Give me power windows, air conditioning and EFI. I'm too old and grouchy for that old stuff.

[robg]

As I've only used a single stage press and tend to do 1 step at a time in batches I figure I'm safer than using a progressive press as I've got more chance of catching an error before I've loaded a few hundred mistakes.

[trapper9260]

I started with a Lyman T press and learn from reading the Lyman manuals and go from there. Then later on not long ago I got a single stage because sizen some brass that I did not like for what it took on the T press. So i use both. Like Mary stated about like the t press and use it like a single stage.I do the same way. Also Someone I know use his progressive press like a single stage.It works for him.I know too many that is getting into it want it fast. Do not want to go and do the learning part of how to work the loads and all.

[mold maker]

I own three progressives but still use the original RC Jr. When I started there were no known handloaders near. I ordered books and read til I felt confident. A fisherman friend traded at a tackle & gun shop in his city and I had him pick up the RCBS Jr press and a set of dies. It was over a month before I ever fired one of my hand loaded rounds. That was over 50 years ago and I now have way too much equipment, supplies, and tools. Being inquisitive, caused me to try every new gewgaw and whimmy diddle that looked like a time saver, or a better way.
As life slows down you find yourself shooting much less. That leaves more time for tinkering. In the last few years I've learned to swage and make BP. I make 45 ACP shot shells, and powder coated boolits.
Aside from a 54 year marriage, the shooting/reloading hobby is the only thing that has lasted. Even my once viril body has started to let me down, but I spend time weekly among brass, powder, boolits, and tools.

[Larry Gibson]

These days if you can't learn it in 2 minutes from Wikipedia or a YouTube video on a smart phone it either is "so like last century" or not interesting enough to do......

[Kraschenbirn]

In the past, I've mentored several new reloaders and, at least, three of those are still at it. Of the others that I still have contact with, one just never got 'into' it and another, more or less, gave up shooting as a hobby.

More recently, it seems that there's just a plain lack of interest. Practically every time I go to the range, someone will see an open ammo box of PC'd boolits on the bench and ask about my reloads. When I offer to help him get started, the answer is "don't have the time" or "too expensive to get started"...the latter from someone typically shooting a $700-$800 AR variant with a $400 scope and burning through $40-$50 worth of bulk-pack 5.56 at a sitting. Go figure....

Bill

[Electric88]

I'm glad to (I think anyways) be part of the small amount of people my age who actually take the time to understand what I'm doing and consciously inspect everything. At 29, I know there are many, many people my age who just want stuff done now with no regard for how it is actually done. There wasn't anyone around me to teach me, so I read as many manuals I could (multiple times each) before ever pulling a lever. And I'm by no means an expert, learning new things every day.

I reload most everything (9mm to 30-06 and more) on a Lee single stage press, checking powder charges frequently and loading in small batches. Everything is inspected at each step 100% to check for possible error. I don't know that I could ever move to progressive presses, just because I don't believe I would have as much control over the process. Plus, I enjoy the tedium of each step when reloading. It's almost more fun than actually shooting.

[dave951]

I learned over 40yrs ago with a RCBS single stage and the bare bones and a couple manuals, Lyman, Speer, Sierra. Learned all I could reading and then working with other guys I knew who reloaded. Motivation stemmed from a couple things, I wanted to save money so I could shoot more per buck, I wanted better accuracy and probably most important, I was shooting ammo I made.

Fast forward after years of competitive shooting and collecting stuff, my sons expressed an interest in shooting and then reloading. I passed a good basic starter set to both of them and made them a reloading bench the could be diassembled for moving when the military moved them. (Yeah, they're both still active duty). Oldest son is still hard at it and even loads 50BMG. He still works on the bench I made for him years ago albeit modified for his current setup. Other son would love to get back into it but his military career has him living in places where firearms ownership is heavily restricted so his bench and setup is in long term storage. He'll comeback to it when he's stateside again.

Long story short, I'll take time with a willing person but most kids these days want that instant gratification and are caught up in playing pewpew so they want to start with a Dillon or LNL Ammoplant. The looks I get when I tell them crawl then stand. Walk then run.

[bob208]

I think the title is a misnomer . all young loaders are not full of knowledge they learn some faster then others. the new young shooters don't want to read a book or learn to double check themselves.they want instant results. they also don't understand there is no restart button. you get it wrong there are things that will happen not all good.

[OS OK]

I think the title is a misnomer . all young loaders are not full of knowledge they learn some faster then others. the new young shooters don't want to read a book or learn to double check themselves.they want instant results. they also don't understand there is no restart button. you get it wrong there are things that will happen not all good.

Well...that's exactly what they will get...'instant results!'

[Plate plinker]

Guess I am lucky I just started a engineer student friend of mine on reloading. Lots of question naturally and he gets it. Also its funny because he is fascinated by how the machines work. Then he makes statements about improvements to my machines and I have to break the news that he was born a decade or two late as somebody already did these improvements. I think he has the bug.

[dk17hmr]

I love threads that bag on millennials.

Most of the people that are bashing are the ones that raise them so there you go.

[Love Life]

Whole bunch of Bertha better than you going on up in here.

The generation that sold our freedoms for a nanny state, is now bagging on the children that grew up in the nanny state their parents and grandparents put them in. Priceless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[quail4jake]

I had a similar experience...he came to me with a MEC Jr and assorted hulls no data and a can of green dot. He wanted to crank out cheap shells cause he shoots em at quail, he had one bit of info, "I shoot 8s". He had no interest in looking up data, sorting which hulls we should use or choosing components, he had loaded some shells but the shot kept dribbling out and the ones he fired had a lot of recoil so he needed me to set it right so he can pick up other peoples empties and load em. He was tired of waiting for shells to go on sale at Kmart! It was all downhill from there, finally I told him I can't help but advised not to shoot any more of the shells he loaded. In disgust, he left all his gear and loaded shells with me and said he'd buy shells since I don't know what I was doing, I said "OK, Pete, best of luck". I took some of his loads apart and found varying amounts of powder and shot, up to 25 grains of Green Dot and some over 480 grains of shot. These were 20 bore! I mounted one of his bulging shells to a plaque with a burst barrel segment below it, I still have it on the wall near my ammo lab. That was 1984, he was over 80 at that time and lived into his 90s. I hope that our misunderstanding contributed to his longevity. Not all fools are young.

[Tom W.]

When I was a constant visitor at the cancer hospital I became friends with one of the security guards there. They are dressed in business suits and very low key, but can be spotted if you know what to look for. This gentleman was retired from the local PD, and told me how he used to shoot competition with their ammo, as he could get all he wanted for free. Factory loads. He also had an expensive progressive shotshell loader. I told him that I not only handloaded but cast my own bullets. Right away he said basically that all cast bullets will terribly lead your barrel. I went to the car and brought back a loaded round for him to see. Either he was being polite or truthful, but he said that he liked it, and did I really make it? I said that I did, and that it didn't lead either of my 9mm pistols.

I had my chemotherapy and went home, but when I came back in three weeks I had a box of loaded rounds that I gave to him. I asked him to try them out and let me know how they shot.

The next time he saw me we sat down and had a cup of coffee. He said he shot the whole box at 25 yards and the group was about 2 inches from his pistol. I then asked if his barrel leaded and he sheepishly said "Not at all."

I haven't been back for a while now, but I do believe I made a believer......