Lee 309-200gr range report...

[Bad Karma]

:-D OK, I learned a lot and had some great success. The following loads were tried in 30-06 and .308 Winchester.

Now before I throw out load data and results I need to discuss the boolits themselves. I cast them out of pure Lynotype. I didn't weigh them for weight consistancy. I used my own boolit lube and experienced no leading at all. All boolits had been fitted with Hornady gas checks.

All groups were shot at 50 yards

The loads were both moderate and full power. I had some very suprising results...

30-06:

13.0gr Green Dot, 1.5gr Poly Fill, not too great about a 2.5" group.

48.5gr IMR 4350 3" group

16.0gr Unique, 1.5gr Poly Fill, .75" 8 shot group no fliers!

.308 Winchester:

38.5gr IMR 3031, 3" group

Now the big suprise......

38.6gr IMR 4064 15shots inside 1" 4 fliers brought it out to 2" otherwise one ragged hole.

The 308 Winchester brass was L.C. 06. I didn't prep it other that rim.

The 30-06 brass was mixed and trimmed.

I'm going to cast a bunch more and really scutenize them for weight. No trace of leading was found. I was really supreised that the moderate loads of comprable velocities in the 30-06 were so different. The gun really likes Unique and really hates Green Dot.

Both loads in the 308 were of the same pressure threshold. The IMR 4064 was a shock, I now think that with more attention to detail on my end and the similarity to Varget, I'm going to try both IMR 4064 and Varget. All who were observing my "experiment" were amazed at the level of accuracy in the .308 due to the high pressures I was using. The 30-06 was and still is my choice for cast boolits due to the neck length. Now that I have proven to myself it's possible to launch a PB boolit at high speed accurately, the M1 Garand is next to see how it likes these loads.:castmine:

[docone31]

I am going to be following this one. I use surplus 4895, which is real close to 4064.
I want to go full house with castings in both of my .30s.

[Bad Karma]

I just cleaned both rifles. No leading whatsover! I has a touch of grease at the crown so I know there was more lube available. I think I'll add about a 1/2 grain of Poly Fill to the full house loads to help protect the boolit. I'm going to really be strict on components. I was using Wolf large rifle primers.

The one thing I did with the Unique load that I didn't do with any other load was, I used my .30 carbine neck expanding die to flair the necks. I think this did a whole lot to minimize boolit boogeringduring the seating stage.

[RexDart]

What did you use (if any) for gas checks? Which lube?

[Bad Karma]

I used Hornady gas checks and my own lube. The lube I made was 1pound beeswax, 13oz white lithium grease, 3/8 pound parafin wax.

[Bad Karma]

Update...I cast a bunch yesterday after shooting. I ended up with 40 out of 150 that were really great. I visually inspected all of them and then weighed all of them. I have 40 that after sizing, lubeing, and gas checking weigh 190gr +/- .1gr This is really as good as I can make them. I paid particulat attention to the bases. I hope this really tells me what powders are really good and what is achievable woth this boolit. My only dislike of this boolit is I wish the grease grooves were a bit deeper.

[Larry Gibson]

Not throw any "bad Karma" but I'm afraid the accuracy with that high pressure high velocity load is probabably decieving as you only shot it at 50 yards. If you shoot it at 100 yards you probably will find that the size of the group dispersion does not increase linearly. Your groups no doubt will be somewhat larger. Also you might not want to discount those "4 flyers". They represent about 30% of the shots fired and are telling you something. Of course if all you shoot is 50 yards you may have a decen load for that. Wish you luck and some good karma.

Larry Gibson

[Bad Karma]

I thought about that too. I'm trying to develop a load that will cycle my .308 M1 Garand.

[runfiverun]

there is a thread here somewhere iirc bruce.b did on his m-14.
should help you out some.
and larry is correct about 50 yds. try 100 and if it holds together there put 5 mils of click in the scope and shoot 200.

[Bad Karma]

Right now what I want to do is get a load that's reliable and accurate. I have a book "The Art od Cast Bullets". It's a compilation from handloader Magazine. There's an article of full power cast boolits. The key for the author was near perfect boolits and the propellant that the boolits liked.

[Larry Gibson]

Bad Karma

It is relatively easy to get ful power loads. The catch is to do it with accuracy. Assuming the 10" twist in your '06 you will have problems with accuracy above 2000 fps regardless of the powder you use. A medium or slow burning powder will help some but they will not produce magic results. The gas system of the M14/M1A is different than that of the M1. Your M1 is much more critical of correct port pressure. In tests some years back with 311299 in an M1A and an M1 of .308 persuasion the loads with 4895 that reliable functioned the M1A at 1900 fps (very good accuracy at the velocity with the 11" twist) would not reliably function the .308 M1. RL19, 4350 and 4831 would reliably funtion the .308 M1 with 311299 at 1850 fps with very good accuracy. Those slower powders are usually not recommended for the M1 as damage to the oprod may occur. That recomendation, however, is with full power loads. If you load them for best accuracy in the 1800 to 2000 fps range with your bullet and one of those powders then the gas port pressure will not be out of spec (or too high) for the M1s oprod.

Larry Gibson

[Bad Karma]

Yes I was wondering about the port pressure. The M1 in question is a Peerless Match .308. I was thinking of getting one of those adjustable gas systems but am thinking that might cause other problems like forgetting I have it opened up for cast boolits then trying out my 175gr Sierra Match Kings and cause damage. I'm probably going to stick to IMR-4064 and Varget. My only concern with factory .308 ammo is that they sometimes use slower ball powders that seem to increase the operating rod velocity.
So...here's my plan. Work to a good accurate load, once found see if I can turn the pressure down to the point where the weapon cycles reliably but not flinging brass all over tarnation. I think that with a good load I can have fun all day without spending a small king's ransom on premium match bullets.

[Larry Gibson]

Bad Karma

That sounds like a very good plan. Please post the results of your tests.

Larry Gibson

[Bad Karma]

Ok here's the new load dats I'm using with this boolit.

38.5gr IMR-4064 with .5gr Poly-Fil

38.0gr Varget with .5gr Poly Fil

I know the Poly Fil may raise an eye brow because the charge is taking up most of the case. I did it for two reasons. 1, to give the boolit a little more barrier between the charge and the gas check. 2, to ensure that any lube that may be on the base or the first grease groove doesn't leach into the charge. This I think will help reduce any gas cutting if there's any and to help keep the burning rate at the desired level with out powder degrdation.

[Larry Gibson]

That's still pretty fast loads, worth a try thought. The lot of milsurp 4895 is pretty close to the burning rate of 4064 and varget. Your load should be pushing the bullet pretty fast, perhaps too fast. Only one way to know.

Larry Gibson

[Bad Karma]

My tripod for my chronograph fell apart after 30+ years of loyal service. I gotta get me another one so i can clock these babies. I'm gussing them at around 2200 f/s. Puse Lynotype is a tough alloy, so I think they'll do OK. I'll find out this Saturday.

[Larry Gibson]

Bad Karma

Take a look at what Bull Shoals is doing with his 311335 200+/- gr bullet in his .308 with 32 gr IMR4895 at around 1850 fps. That is about the velocity and RPM you should be looking for for best accuracy.

Larry Gibson