Cast zinc HP 9mm at 1800+ FPS gel block results. Devestating!

[Acidia609]

Hello Casters and reloaders. I wanted to share some testing I've been doing using cast zinc boolits.

I've managed to cast a NOE TL357 135-RF RG2 hollow point bullet out of zinc. Without any mold damages.
Video results are uploaded on my youtube channel here:
https://youtu.be/MnyynS2QOWs

Cast Zinc Playlist here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSygLrrNnzR3BSROekXzUVp16dARo8El

Latest Zinc testing:
https://youtu.be/ct17nmp14Z8

Results are devastating on homebrew balastic gel. Acts like the G2 RIP round with speeds faster than the ARX. Really makes the gel block jump

I've been doing cast zinc testing (Cast Zinc Fame or Fail playlist) and have found it to be accurate yet very pleasing to shoot. It also cleans your barrel and no boolit coating is necessary. Let me know whatcha think?

[john.k]

New developments are what casters need,not endless rehash of 1883.I have heaps of scrap zinc in the form of powder (for paint),20kg tins rejected for lumps.I have often wondered at the feasibility of a proper diecast mold for one popular bullet.......say308/150 in zinc.,be about as long as a 10"twist could stabilize.,to pressure diecast say 100 pcs per cycle....Will be feasible when lead is banned and copper soars again.

[Butler Ford]

Interesting! Well done, I enjoyed watching. Good to know!

BF

[Acidia609]

Yes your right, theres many new things to try out on cast bullets and coatings those willing to expirement should post. I want to try HBN coating on cast powder coated bullets as it allows more lubricity and is heat resistance to 2k*F. May be a way to get these cast boolits to speeds never thought of.
Ive casted the NOE HTC 153 SP mold in zinc aswell and shot it out of a 16" 300AAC at around 2500 FPS. I wanted to create a hunting round that is an alternative to lead since some states wont allow lead bullets for hunting. Bullet weight in zinc is 95.3grs and they look awsome! Ill be trying that same boolit in the 30-06 results should be able to duplicate in 308

[runfiverun]

try them at distance.
50' great, 74 yds not so good.

[Lloyd Smale]

personaly I'm more conserned about 9mm performance at 14 feet then I am at 74 yards.

[tazman]

Impressive. How difficult was it to get good boolits from the zinc

[flounderman]

there is a load in a very old loading book for a kirksite bullrt in the swift at over 7000 fps. could be zink.

[Jal5]

Thanks for doing that video. Good work

[Soundguy]

Tagging onto this post so I can see updates.

[Acidia609]

Impressive. How difficult was it to get good boolits from the zinc

Casting with zinc is very challenging even with aged casters that have tried. I'm having to laddle pour them using a Turkey fryer and getting a good fill can be challenging. The hardest part is you gotta be fast after pouring to break the sprue or it will indent the base of the cavity since zinc is very hard and flashes over quickly. I suggest using Lee molds if you decide try at first untill you get a feel. I've been asking mold companies if they can provide harder aluminum alloys or steel molds for casting zinc but the replies I got are either negative or discourage me from using zinc.

Even though these are 75.4gr 9mm, They fly true and straight enough for me. I am able to ring a 66% IPSC target at 100 yards using my RMR slide and a rig up pistol sled. NOE did provide a shallow HP pins and ill see what that does if they will still fragment. One thing I think helps for lighter bullets are the length to help stabilize in flight

Also im very curious to find out what my zinc 30cal version does in 30-06 as Im able to for now get just over an inch group at 100 using 11grs of pistol powder HP38 on the regular lead bullet 155gr. These worked great in 300AAC

[mdi]

Thanks! Thinking "outside the box" is a good thing. Experimenting is a good thing. Keep it up. If reloaders/casters weren't trying new stuff, would we have homemade gas checks from beer cans? Would we use metal preserver for bullet lube?

[Hogtamer]

2 years ago I set out to cast Zinc full bore 12 ga. slugs. Worked out great in the end. Accurate made the iron mold. Wound up using Zamak 3 which is 96% zinc, the balance aluminum. Most of what I read about casting zinc was negative and wrong. Wound up with pressure tested "zlugs" at 477 gr, .731 diameter loaded on a hard column in 3" hulls moving 1700 fps, 3-4" groups at 100 yds. One guy did the newspaper test, better than 4'. here's the thread, pretty long as I worked through a lot of stuff, but yes, it works and well. The slug weighed 775 gr in lead.

[swheeler]

Yes your right, theres many new things to try out on cast bullets and coatings those willing to expirement should post. I want to try HBN coating on cast powder coated bullets as it allows more lubricity and is heat resistance to 2k*F. May be a way to get these cast boolits to speeds never thought of.
Ive casted the NOE HTC 153 SP mold in zinc aswell and shot it out of a 16" 300AAC at around 2500 FPS. I wanted to create a hunting round that is an alternative to lead since some states wont allow lead bullets for hunting. Bullet weight in zinc is 95.3grs and they look awsome! Ill be trying that same boolit in the 30-06 results should be able to duplicate in 308

I like the way you think.209880

[OS OK]

Did you figure out the FTF rounds? What was that about?
Are you priming on the Lee press? Do you check each and every one of them for 'flush or just under flush' when the primers are seated?
Could be a combination of things going on there...if those high speed/higher pressure rounds are expanding the primer pockets and you are reloading those brass cases, you might have primer pockets loosening up a tad...then if the primers are not fully seated they can seat deeper when they are struck again, leaving a mark on the primer but not firing it. If you are using a cartridge checker to check all the newly reloaded rounds you'll notice that some of the cases will drop in and slowly settle into the checker...those are the rounds that are having head expansion going on, that check will tip you off about loosening pockets, that and the fact that primers seat to easily also...when I run into this I'll mark the entire bottom of the brass with a black marks-alot...when I see them before I go to decap and clean the brass, I'll chuck-em right there and be done with them.
FTF incidents have to be carefully investigated.
When you test a string of loads like you did in the part 2 video, try to collect all the fired rounds and place them back in the carrier upside down, primer side up so that you can compare the entire load string viewed side by side...looking carefully you can see the outside radius of the primer growing narrower and sharper edged as the velocity and pressure goes up.

You are testing out in unchartered areas of this business...you need be more than careful and only you can judge that.

Make certain that you read the powder reviews/descriptions published by the manufacturers before experimenting with any new 'unknown to you' powders...for instance, 296 is not the powder to go with light loads and there may be others like that too...don't scatter your favorite pistol!

I didn't see whether or not the Zn rounds 'scrubbed' the deposits you were assuming were Pb...did that work?
The light grey smearing I could see looked more like uncured PC, if that's so make sure that your convection oven is not lying to you about the temperature you set it at so that the PC cures properly. If indeed those light grey smears are the PC there's no reason to fret over it...it's such a thin deposit, it's almost not really there.

I commend all your efforts to learn about this, commend your extra efforts to document your progress...this alone puts you out in an area of 'brassstuffing' where the ranks are thin, not many putting this much effort into it...SO...way to go...BUT...be safe!

I'm sure that 'Elvis Ammo' is watching all this Zn experimenting...if he make a suggestion, listen closely...he's already been down this Zn road without incident...I personally like how you combine the chronograph test with your grouping test, killing two birds with one stone so to speak. Write the information on the cast/bullet metal used, powder/quantity etc. and Avg. FPS, ES & SD numbers on the targets and file them in a notebook...you won't believe how many times in the future that you'll be back reviewing these numbers. You are testing so many combinations that there's no way to commit even a portion to memory...

I subscribed to your channel so I can watch your future adventures...c h a r l i e

[ofitg]

FWIW, here are two pages of literature (general info plus load data) provided with zinc-alloy bullets which were marketed 17 years ago -

https://i.imgur.com/VPN7z3O.gif

https://i.imgur.com/8FUqeOH.gif

[popper]

Interesting your Zn/Pb ratio is 60% but normal Zn/Pb is 80%. Several have pushed PC to top jacketed fps, Don't know that HBN will really help any. 110/296 works ok at near full case loads, not so much at lite loads but the harder Zn may cause more engraving pressure. Maybe 4227, 2400 or Rx7? 110 does work good for 125gr in BO. I'd expect 06 to need the slower powder. Might peruse some Cu solids loads for the 06, Cu is closer to Zn in weight. Interesting to see the damage to the steel plate. What steel?

[wistlepig1]

Well done, I like the Vid to.

[RogerDat]

I think Banger Jim tested and found that zinc up to around 5% really didn't hurt casting of lead any. Makes me wonder if a couple percent zinc might do the job of three or four percent antimony. Wonder if zinc might add even more hardness than the Sb.

[Acidia609]

Hello OS OK, and thank-you very much for all the positis-em. I created this round in liu of watching Elvis Ammo's results. As I too are an avid listener to his channel. You're very correct about the dangers of these testing as I used published 90gr Load data at 30% below max at first and worked up from there and also have remote fired my firearm at first. The FTF issue was due to BR4 primers being seated instead of CCI small pistol primers. The brick I was sold had 1 individual 100 pack either misslabled or accidently switch. This was addressed on Part 3 of my series. I recently also did a VR to diagnosing a FTF. My leading issue is either because I need to size to .357 or my 21BHN alloys are to hard. im .001 oversized according to my barrel slugged bullet, Plus I switch to HP38. Theres many factors I must eliminate first before I switch sizing dies. My barrel has 6500 rounds through it. I use Unique for my 9mm mostly but its hard for me to find. I agree with everything saftey, extreme caution MUST be taken!!! And all loads I've mentioned are of risk of the reloader my results may differ. I stress that a lot in my videos as this load may work for me but not others. Ive been expirementing with zinc for a little now and Ive been using Quickload to help me keep within safe pressures and also find suitable powders for cast loads. So far I've shot these 9mm Zinc bullets safely out of a P226, Glock 19 (lone wolf barrel), P938 and a Ruger LCR 9mm without signs of pressure or damage up to 7.2gr of HP38 / W231 OAL 1.125 with the 356-124gr Lee bullet Glock 19 was seated at 1.095 with Max load of 6.3gr.

I hope you and others enjoy these series and Ill be doing more testing with zinc. When I get around to it. I have a 380 ACP load that will have you double think what your EDC choice is.

[Acidia609]

RogerDat,
I saw that. He expiremented with zinc alloy PB which increased hardness. Zinc DOES clean your barrel. A friend of mine uses zinc low charge rounds as a barrel clear out before shooting long range. I verified that with my testing. It doesnt make it super shinny and new but there is a noticable difference

[Acidia609]

Interesting your Zn/Pb ratio is 60% but normal Zn/Pb is 80%. Several have pushed PC to top jacketed fps, Don't know that HBN will really help any. 110/296 works ok at near full case loads, not so much at lite loads but the harder Zn may cause more engraving pressure. Maybe 4227, 2400 or Rx7? 110 does work good for 125gr in BO. I'd expect 06 to need the slower powder. Might peruse some Cu solids loads for the 06, Cu is closer to Zn in weight. Interesting to see the damage to the steel plate. What steel?

Haha ya I spaced out about shooting the steel. Check out my (Cast Zinc rounds fame or Fail) playlist. Its on my Part 3 (24:50). Also im shooting the Lee 126gr Tumble lube TC bullet in zinc which is also 75grs. Accuracy shows around 6.5grs

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSygLrrNnzR3BSROekXzUVp16dARo8El

[OS OK]

I am amazed at the 25' accuracy in testing those lightning bolts, ie. the 5.3 g. of 231...but I'd like to see what you do on a sand bag at about 40~50 yards too...not that you would expect to shoot at that distance all the time but...just to see if they will hold true.
Those buggers are lightweight, haulin bulls and spinning Mucho RPM's...if all that holds true then that criteria would speak volumes for the interior integrity of a cast Zn round...you get what I'm saying?

As hard as Zn is, aprox. 30 BHN...your sizing them @ .001" over bore oughta be the ticket...maybe even less? It'll be interesting to follow.

charlie

[Acidia609]

I am amazed at the 25' accuracy in testing those lightning bolts, ie. the 5.3 g. of 231...but I'd like to see what you do on a sand bag at about 40~50 yards too...not that you would expect to shoot at that distance all the time but...just to see if they will hold true.
Those buggers are lightweight, haulin bulls and spinning Mucho RPM's...if all that holds true then that criteria would speak volumes for the interior integrity of a cast Zn round...you get what I'm saying?

As hard as Zn is, aprox. 30 BHN...your sizing them @ .001" over bore oughta be the ticket...maybe even less? It'll be interesting to follow.

charlie

Ok will do. Ill shoot a IPSC 66% target at 100 yards freshly painted. Its got combat sights so Ill do my best lol My 300aac rings it everytime and thats 95grs

[texassako]

Flipped through my newly acquired book of old ARA bulletins because I saw an article on zinc (Dec '68, No. 64). A couple of things from it you might find interesting. A sprue plate hole of .100" works best up to .358", and .150" for larger molds. He was getting 1834 fps with a 75 gr 356402 in .38 Special, 2671 fps with a 235 gr 457483 in .458 Win Mag, and 3800 fps with a 69 gr 311359 in a .30-06. He also said gas checks helped accuracy if a gas check shank was present. Even sized them in a Lyman 450, as longs as it was only a thousandth or two. Oddly, accuracy was not mentioned, only the impressive velocity and muzzle energy. Oh, and hardness is actually about 82 BHN with the Kirksite 3 alloy he was using.

[Acidia609]

Flipped through my newly acquired book of old ARA bulletins because I saw an article on zinc (Dec '68, No. 64). A couple of things from it you might find interesting. A sprue plate hole of .100" works best up to .358", and .150" for larger molds. He was getting 1834 fps with a 75 gr 356402 in .38 Special, 2671 fps with a 235 gr 457483 in .458 Win Mag, and 3800 fps with a 69 gr 311359 in a .30-06. He also said gas checks helped accuracy if a gas check shank was present. Even sized them in a Lyman 450, as longs as it was only a thousandth or two. Oddly, accuracy was not mentioned, only the impressive velocity and muzzle energy. Oh, and hardness is actually about 82 BHN with the Kirksite 3 alloy he was using.

Man thats great info Thank-You! I have a 2 cavity Lee 356-124 mold ill try opening the sprue hole up. That may solve the Zinc casting fillout issue.
Here are some close up's on the Lee 356-124 zinc bullet. You can see the two on the right have more rounded bases and the NOE bullets seem to drop better filled out bullets:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10ocCCKrfpIPFDKb4YI3vHaTQxYNQLOwO

....can't seem to upload photo's here kinda new to this Form posting but have researched a lot of cast data

[texassako]

It is a smaller sprue hole, not larger. Unlessbyours is already .1". Easier to cut and says zinc pours easier than lead so the small size is not an issue. Only time I messed with zinc I took the sprue plate off a single cavity Lyman and used my mini chop saw and a jig to cut the puddle off and make a flat base later.

[nh7792]

From day 1 of casting I was told to avoid Zinc like the plague. After reading and seeing the Youtube video, I may rethink that a bit.

[Acidia609]

Hello Casters and Reloaders, and Merry Christmas.

For those who are wondering if Cast ZINC (ZN) b00lits hold true at longer distance and not tumble and key hole. I just uploaded a short VR on this testing.

https://youtu.be/ct17nmp14Z8

Happy Casting, and again Merry Christmas!

[ofitg]

Acidia609, have you considered testing these zinc slugs' performance against body armor?

This guy - The Chopping Block - has presented a few videos/trials involving hard and soft armor, but I don't believe he has tried cast zinc -

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFfkAZgLwfUIJ1nN4SnsTVw

[Acidia609]

Acidia609, have you considered testing these zinc slugs' performance against body armor?

This guy - The Chopping Block - has presented a few videos/trials involving hard and soft armor, but I don't believe he has tried cast zinc -

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFfkAZgLwfUIJ1nN4SnsTVw

Funny you've mention. I was wondering if I epoxy or glue a steel ball bearing inside the HP and see what that does may get level 2/3 AP fragmenting round? Might be cool to try out

[ofitg]

Funny you've mention. I was wondering if I epoxy or glue a steel ball bearing inside the HP and see what that does may get level 2/3 AP fragmenting round? Might be cool to try out

I wouldn't be surprised if your .30/95-gr slug at 2500 fps drilled right through body armor and then tumbled its way through the gelatin...... that could cause a devastating wound.

[Texas by God]

How many zinc boolits can you get from a Hi point slide?[emoji16]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Soundguy]

Prolly too much waste aluminum in there :)

[Acidia609]

How many zinc boolits can you get from a Hi point slide?[emoji16]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Lol, Surprisingly these recoil a hella lot less than any 9mm FMJ round i've shot even at 7grs. HiPoints might be able to survive these rounds