Cast boolit for .50 muzzleloader?

[mattri]

Running a CVA Wolf .50" 24" barrel, 1:28.

Shoots well with .44/.45 j-words and sabots.

Thinking about casting for it.

Other than a miniball, would cast .50 pistol boolits be an option?

[mooman76]

You could possibly paper patch them bullets. Look up Idahoron. He can help you there.

[Rick N Bama]

A Maxi Ball shoots fairly well in my CVA Optima.

[TCLouis]

How about the Lee REAL boolit or the Lyman Boolit.

Might want to get some to try before you spring for a mold for any of them.

[kens]

I been thinking about the Lee mold for .500 S&W.
Will that obturate and grab the rifling in a M/L??

[triggerhappy243]

ken, former member 54bore uses that bullet with incredible accuracy.

[charlie b]

Dead soft and depending on your rifle's bore and size of bullet when cast...yes, I think it could work. There was also a version made slightly smaller so it could be more easily paper patched (NEI I think).

I had good luck with Hornady Great Plains bullets after I sized them to my bore. Some have good luck as they come out of the box. I think Lyman made molds for similar bullets.

For my Lyman GPH I use PP bullets, 450 and 500gn. I don't cast so they are purchased from Buffalo Arms. You can find molds for slick side bullets from several places, including a few that have an adjustable base plug so you can cast whatever weight you want (within reason).

[Squeeze]

do you want fullbore, or .452/.458 in a sabot?

[Larry Gibson]

I have a TC Black Mtn Magnum .50 cal with a 28" twist also. While of traditional lock it is made for the heavy 150 gr loads. I cast my own MaxiBalls (350 gr) for it out of 16-1 alloy and push them at 1570 fps. I also cast both versions of the Lee REAL bullets cast of 40-1 alloy and use those. A Lee RB mould (pure lead) completes the bullet selection.

Target was at 100 yards; 6 shots loading from the speed loaders w/o cleaning or wiping between shots using 90 gr(V) 777 Fffg.

209692

[idahoron]

I been thinking about the Lee mold for .500 S&W.
Will that obturate and grab the rifling in a M/L??

This is my 10th year shooting a Paper Patched Lee 500 S&W bullet. Over the years I have had very good luck and collected a lot of animals with them. Your not going to be able to shoot them as cast. They are small enough that they would likely fall out of the barrel when you tip it down.
I paper patch them and size them to .501 after they are wrapped I do that dry. I use 80 grains of pyrodex P with a .62" diameter wool wad. I harden the lead to .035 to .038 on my Cabine Tree tester. That is about 6 to 7 BHN. They tend to like lead that is a pinch harder than pure. Much harder than that and the paper will strip off when you size them.

[curator]

Idahoron:

Do you install gas checks on the lee boolit? What thickness paper? I have 9# airmail paper, will that work?

[kens]

I have a TC Black Mtn Magnum .50 cal with a 28" twist also. While of traditional lock it is made for the heavy 150 gr loads. I cast my own MaxiBalls (350 gr) for it out of 16-1 alloy and push them at 1570 fps. I also cast both versions of the Lee REAL bullets cast of 40-1 alloy and use those. A Lee RB mould (pure lead) completes the bullet selection.

Target was at 100 yards; 6 shots loading from the speed loaders w/o cleaning or wiping between shots using 90 gr(V) 777 Fffg.

209692

Larry,
How does the RB group with the 1:28 barrel?

[white eagle]

I use a REAL from Tom @ Accurate in both my 50 and 54
both will shoot very very accurate
you can cast them all day beats buying any and they are better

[mattri]

Thanks for all the great replies. To answer a few questions-

Barrel is a 24" 1:28 have yet to slug it.

Have been using sabots and j-words so far.

Looking to use a full size cast boolit.

Here is what I am thinking for a mould:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/559933/lee-1-cavity-improved-minie-ball-bullet-mold-500-360m-500-diameter-360-grain#

Would this be a good choice?

In the meantime I was thinking of picking up something like this to try:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/969718/thompson-center-maxi-hunter-bullets-50-caliber-275-grain-lead-hollow-point-lubricated-box-of-20#

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2046290637/hunters-supply-hard-cast-bullets-50-caliber-501-diameter-325-grain-lead-flat-nose

Thoughts so far?

[kens]

I also have a CVA Wolf, it shoots many things well.
The things that shoot good are Powerbelts, 45pistol bullets in sabot,
the cheap hollow point bullets in sabots, (comes in a bag of 50 bullets + sabots); and cast 45acp bullets in sabot
they all do good

[mooman76]

I didn't care for any or the Lee minnies is 50 cal. Not that they shoot bad but they drop too big unless they change what they cut the mould at and I don't think they have. Minnies should drop .001/2 under bore size. They dropped just over .50 for me so they don't drop down the bore like they should so I figured I might as well be using maxis. They did shoot well enough for minute of deer at 100y though. I guess to shoot right they would need to be sized and I just didn't think it was worth the effort.

[white eagle]

try this you wont be sorry
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=51-300A-D.png

[Blammer]

mattri, I'd choose the maxi hunter first, good bullet i've used several times for deer.


I'd get the Lee 50 cal real bullet works well too! get the 250 gr one, it works better in my guns.

[triggerhappy243]

In the meantime I was thinking of picking up something like this to try:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/96...ted-box-of-20#

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/20...lead-flat-nose

Thoughts so far?


that 50 cal. hard cast may be a booger to run down the bore, it is 6% antimony.

[idahoron]

Idahoron:

Do you install gas checks on the lee boolit? What thickness paper? I have 9# airmail paper, will that work?

No I don't add a Gas Check. Yes the 9# onion skin will work. The paper I have is 9# onion skin Air Mail paper. It should add right at .006 to the diameter of the bullet. I have some paper that is .001 and some that is .0015 You can also use paper from dress patterns but it is a bit thinner. Just play with it a little and see what it likes. Sizing to .499 or .500 might be better for some rifles. Mine likes the .501 finish size.
These bullets really like the lead to have a little hardness but not a lot.

https://i.imgur.com/H1Jkg7v.jpg?1

[mattri]

Interesting replies, thanks again.

Looking at a Lee REAL boolit or something like the T.C- is there an advantage/disadvantage to running something like that vs running a .44/.45 cast boolit with a sabot?

[triggerhappy243]

the only true way to get an answer.............. is to try them. experiment............. play with it. you will never know what the rifle likes............. until you try it.

[charlie b]

This disadvantage of something like the REAL vs sabots is aerodynamics. The REAL will lose velocity and drop faster.

You have a fast twist barrel so you have the ability to shoot longer bullets. I would either stick with sabots or shoot the longer rifle bullets.

[rainydayman]

My dad likes a hornaday 180 grain sabot but we can’t find them anymore. Is there a suggestion for a mould I can get to cast some up for him. Using TC encore. 2 pellets of pyrodex. Where would I get empty sabots?

[taco650]

Why couldn't you use cast lead bullets in plastic sabots?

[rainydayman]

I think you can I’m not sure what type of mould to get. Or where to get empty sabots

[mattri]

Maybe something like this?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/511417/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-c430-310-rf-44-special-44-remington-magnum-44-40-wcf-430-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/838524/hornady-50-caliber-sabot-for-44-caliber-bullets-pack-of-50

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

www.accuratemolds.com makes molds without the lube rings for sabots.

[Themoose]

First of all, Merry Christmas to one and all. I just wanted to add my actual experience to the thread. I just had a problem with my flintlock 50 cal and had to send it back to the manufacturer. They remedied the problem by installing a brand new barrel and returning it to me... all took only about 5 days(including weekend). Both barrels were Green Mountain with a 1:28 twist. I was shooting the same paperpatched Lee bullet as Idahoron showed(actually Ron has gratiously provided me with what I have learned on paperpatching)..Thank you Ron... Now, I am not a spring chicken and just entered my 7th decade and have eyes that have dimmed... so my shooting with iron sights is at best a struggle... anyway to point... I had a number of 50 cal paperpatched bullets from a Mountain Mold prepared and sized to .500 that worked well in the original barrel with 90grs. of Swiss 3F. When I loaded up the new barrel, I noticed that it was a more snug fit.. no, I did not slug the barrel as I was in a hurry to get prepared for the upcoming PA flintlock season only 3 days away... they shot reasonably well, but not quite as good... so, having some time on my hands and a .495 sizing die available I sized some of the MM bullets and the Lee bullets. Ran them thru @ .500 then again @ .495. At the range the next day I fired four three shot groups off a rest at 50yds using a one inch square of painter's tape as a target... The first two groups were with the .500 and I saw definite deer capable groups of about 1 1/2" with vertical stringing... the same with the third group with the Mountain Mold @ .495... then I shot the Lee @ .495... all three shots touching, forming a nice clover leaf group.... It didn't take me long to figure out what my load will be for the opener..All bullets were cast from soft lead and sized as stated, each had lube grooves, but were simply wrapped and sized with two wraps of #9 onion skin paper. Thinking of it later, it made sense... if you have read Ron's sticky or saw his video, you will see that he recommends sizing the bullet so that it slides the barrel with just the weight of the ram rod... The .500 sized bullets would not do that and I was concerned that they were tight enough to tear the paper jacket(they did not, I tried loading some with the breech plug removed just to recover the unfired bullets to see how they fared.) Long winded answer, but clearly demonstrates that each barrel is indeed different... again Merry Christmas, Happy Birthday Jesus...

Kindest regards,

TheMoose

[idahoron]

Thanks TheMoose for the kind words.
Like I have said before the Lee 500 S&W bullet is now in it's 10th year with me. I have never said that they were the perfect bullet but, they were MUCH, MUCH better than any factory bullet I have ever shot.
It does make me feel good to hear from guys that I helped them out. Some of the guys that are doing this are far better than I am and I could learn some things from them.
I know that when I first started killing game with my own hand made loads it mean't a lot to me. Seeing my son killing game was another level of fulfillment.
Hearing from guys that I have helped along the way is amazing. I appreciate every person that has filled me in on their success with paper patching for hunting.

[mattri]

Is this the mould you are referring to?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010200848/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-c501-440-rf-500-s-and-w-magnum-501-diameter-440-grain-flat-nose-gas-check

[Themoose]

I believe that is the one I use. I cast out of soft lead so it weighs around 457 grs. The gas check design works well with paperpatched.

[mattri]

What is the advantage of PP as opposed to just casting a bigger boolit?

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,
How does the RB group with the 1:28 barrel?

Yes it does. However, max velocity is in the 1750 to 1790 fps range for any accuracy past 60 - 75 yards. At 1890 fps and they group 1 - 1/2" at 50 yards but really lose it past that and turn in "improved cylinder" groups of 16"+ (5 shots) at 100 yards which barely hold paper of a 24x26" target. At 1785 fps +/- fps 2 - 3" groups at 100 yards are the norm. I use 80 gr(V) FFFG 777 under a 40-1 Lee RB in a tight .018 twill patch lubed with 1000+ Bore Butter for the 1785 fps load. Using 90 gr(V) gets the 1891 fps and poor accuracy.

Both the shorter Lee REAL 260 gr (40-1) and the heavier 330 gr REAL shoot very well over 90 gr(V) Fffg 777 at 1591 and 1525 fps.

Merry Christmas to all.

[idahoron]

What is the advantage of PP as opposed to just casting a bigger boolit?

Yes the post above with the link to the Lee mould is the right one.
The advantage of the paper patch is consistency. Every time you shoot a naked bullet it will deposit a small amount of lead. Some Sabots will leave behind plastic. Over time that build up will change the way the gun shoots. Little by little until one day you can't hit the barn with it. At that point a lot of guys give up on the gun and buy another one.
With the paper patch the bullet is protected from the fire by an over powder wad and paper. The bullet is protected from the barrel. With that said the Barrel is protected from the lead by the paper. There is no slow build up of lead in the barrel. The one thing I have found is that these are consistent. My sights have stayed the same for years and years. I don't have to go sight in every year. I just go practice.
I am not saying that a naked bullet can't be accurate, it can. But you have to be much more on top of your cleaning to keep it shooting at it's best.
Grease bullets can also be very messy, the paper patched bullets are not.
On the down side. It takes time to make the bullets and grade them. It also takes time to cut paper, wrap the size them. Then there is the time spent packing game, skinning game, cutting meat, grilling steaks. It all takes time. [smilie=l: