Priming Mixed 9mm Luger Brass troubles

[DonMountain]

I have been trying to develop some 9mm Luger loads for my wife's Norinco Model 213 pistol using random range pick-up brass I purchased from a company. I have been using a hand reamer to clean out and shape the primer pockets after depriming, but I get such varying pressures when inserting new primers that I often have to recock the hammer and give the primer a second blow to get them to fire. Initially when I first started I didn't ream the primer pockets and had misfires of about one in 5 shells. After reaming I am up to about one in 20 misfires. And when I insert the primers and check them with my finger, sometimes I have to push them in deeper with more pressure on the press handle which seems excessive. I am using a Pacific C press for reloading including primer insertion on the downstroke using the push in primer arm through the slot in the case-holder piston.

[jdfoxinc]

I get a better feel for how well seated a primer is with my RCBS hand prime.

[Calamity Jake]

Throw out the non usa made brass and your problem should go away, you can use the pmc although not usa make it is good brass.

[Bulldogger]

I deal with this by hand-sorting the brass into separate piles by manufacturer. Then I note which ones take "extra" pressure to seat and adjust my priming behavior accordingly. Some take what I feel is excessive force, and I typically recycle these to avoid the continued hassle of reloading them. Sellier & Bellot are the worst offenders of super tight primer pockets in my personal experience. I second the idea that EU cartridges tend to be less friendly to reloaders, it is my own experience as well, though Prvi Partisan are an exception. I have been happy reusing Prvi, and it can often be found at good prices as loaded rounds too.

Bulldogger

[dondiego]

I have also found Berdan and brass washed steel casings from foreign 9 MM brass. A magnet and a visual inspection of the internal case base can be real helpful at times.

[mdi]

Personally, for primer pocket work I'd only remove the primer pocket crimps from NATO brass. You may be enlarging the pocket, unintentionally, by reaming/reforming/cleaning. In 18 years of reloading 9mm I have never cleaned a primer pocket. For new reloaders 99% of failures to fire are from improperly seated primers. Forget 'below flush measurements" and just make sure the primer is all the way down to the bottom of the pocket. Cartridge cases are made by many different manufacturers and the dimensions can vary so check and see if the "loose" pockets are on one mfg.'s. cases.

I didn't care for the 9mm for the first 20 years of my reloading (I had bigger, smaller, faster and slower handguns/calibers) so I only started out of curiosity with a "plastic" striker fired 9mm about 15 years ago) but now I load and shoot a lot for 3, 9mms and have no problems with range pickups ("my just in case" stash for my 9mms is a 125 gr JHP over a medium load of Universal in mixed brass. Never a primer seating problem)...

FWIW; Many years ago I was looking for a hand priming tool that fit my hand and was consistent. Couldn't find one as all tools I used I had to reset the tool in my hand after every squeeze. I discovered a ram prime tool and was sold and used one for mebbe 15 years. Even Lyman suggests a ram prime as "the easiest, most consistent, positive" priming tool. If you continue to have priming problems I'd suggest a ram prime, and they are cheap...

[dverna]

My only problems have been with S&B brass. I toss them.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I deal with this by hand-sorting the brass into separate piles by manufacturer. Then I note which ones take "extra" pressure to seat and adjust my priming behavior accordingly. Some take what I feel is excessive force, and I typically recycle these to avoid the continued hassle of reloading them. Sellier & Bellot are the worst offenders of super tight primer pockets in my personal experience. I second the idea that EU cartridges tend to be less friendly to reloaders, it is my own experience as well, though Prvi Partisan are an exception. I have been happy reusing Prvi, and it can often be found at good prices as loaded rounds too.

Bulldogger

Yes, Me too.

While sorting 9mm by headstamp may be a pain, I find the result of the remaining loading process (in batches of like HS) to be much more uniform and satisfying to my tastes...and well worth the time it takes to sort 'em. Also, culling the undesirable HS before the remaining process/loading saves frustration as well.

[reddog81]

If you're going to take the time to hand ream the primer pockets you might as well sort by headstamp at the same time. I grab 10 or more ziploc baggies and label one for each popular manufacturer. Blazer, R-P, WIN, etc. Any odd ball brass gets thrown into a seperate bag along with crimped brass and brass with the internal shelf now present with some manufacturers.

[lightman]

To me, 9 mm has always been a little harder to load. Using a hand priming tool will give you a better feel for seating the primer than using your loading press. Swaging the primer pocket may do a better job than reaming them. Whatever you do, you are going to have a few that just need to be scrapped. I've got enough 9 mm cases that I scrap most of the lesser known head stamps because its just less trouble.

[marek313]

If I use my Lee Clasic Turret I manage to prime most of my mixed 9mm brass (not NATO crimped ones). I love that press I have such a good feel for that press by now. Lately though I've been loading 9mm and 45acp on my new Lee Loadmaster progressive press and while its going a lot faster I end up missing some primers or getting them sideways or even upside down sometimes so I check all rounds after. I really dont want to sort my 9 and 45 by headstamp so I'm dealing with few misprimes here and there. I spend more time on 5.56 and 300AAC brass and thats all sorted by headstamp but you really should separate rifle brass by headstamp.

[Jal5]

Yes, Me too.

While sorting 9mm by headstamp may be a pain, I find the result of the remaining loading process (in batches of like HS) to be much more uniform and satisfying to my tastes...and well worth the time it takes to sort 'em. Also, culling the undesirable HS before the remaining process/loading saves frustration as well.

I definitely Agree especially with 9 mm

[runfiverun]

in mixed brass you get,,, well, a mixture.
if you have primers seated high enough for a 213 to not be able to set them off you should be able to see them visually.

[Forrest r]

I sort 9mm brass as well, had issues with the 9mm brass when I 1st started reloading them in 1991?, sorted them ever since. CCI products & ww go in 1 pile (general range use). R-p go in another pile (thinner brass ='s longer bullets) and everything else gets tossed.

If it isn't shinny/has scratched it gets tossed.
The base/headstamp is off or wore it gets tossed
I also look for the tell tail bulge marks left in the case after someone has removed them Some brass fired from a shield that have the smiley face marks in them and what the brass looks like after it was removed (double ring mark around the brass).
https://i.imgur.com/8DmYoVO.jpg

As other have stated, take a little time sorting some of your brass and it will help you sort your 9mm/priming issues out. Could be the brass or it could enlarged/oversized primmers/etc.

[Petrol & Powder]

I concur with mdi from post # 6

With the exception of military brass that may have crimped primers, there's no reason to ream primer pockets of 9mm Luger brass.

I also agree that most misfires come from failure to properly seat the primers. Agreeing with mdi again here, just seat the primer till it bottoms out in the primer pocket. Don't overthink this.

The OP speaks about multiple strikes to fire a cartridge and that is strong evidence of a high primer. The force from the firing pin is being expended to drive the primer deeper into the primer pocket instead of setting the primer off. The firing pin strikes the primer, the primer slides a little farther into the primer pocket and that movement absorbs the impact.

[Cherokee]

Sort by HS, hand prime, make sure the primer is fully seated in the pocket. Always check for high primers with a straight edge. Works for me...

[Wayne Smith]

What do you mean by ream the primer pockets? Lyman has both a primer pocket cleaner and a primer pocket uniformer, and they look much the same. I sort 9mm brass cause I shoot 9Mak and have to sort/trim brass anyway. I have a Lyman set and always uniform military and S&B primer pockets - do it once and stop worrying.

[mdi]

FWIW... For the new reloaders; hand priming, while popular, isn't the end all for priming. As I stated earlier many folks have difficulties with getting consistent seating with a hand prime tool. I have no problems with hand tools, having been a machinist/mechanic for over 50 years and am pretty mechanically inclined, but hand priming tools don't work for everyone. Just be aware that they may not work for you...

Having reloaded for a very long time (I started priming cases with a mallet; Lee Loader) my conclusions go along with Lyman's, a ram prime is prolly better than most priming methods and I highly recommend one for new reloaders...

[Echo]

I do load 9's, but not many - my main comment is for hand-priming, I really like the old Lee priming tools. Stay put in my right hand, pick up a primer w/left, set in tool, pick up brass with same hand, set in, sqush, take out, repeat, while watching Fox News or whatever. I have several set up for different calibers.
The newer Lee's look too fiddly to suit me...

[Ed_Shot]

I definitely Agree especially with 9 mm

+1 for sorting 9MM by headstamp. Uniformity pays off in the final product.

[JimB..]

I don’t sort by headstamp, but I do filter out the perfecta, Tula, a-merc, and other brass that I don’t like. Deprime, wet tumble, dry, prime on the progressive. Have never had a high primer issue.

You sure that you don’t have a setup problem? Maybe using the large primer seater with small primers or something?

[DonMountain]

Having reloaded for a very long time (I started priming cases with a mallet; Lee Loader) my conclusions go along with Lyman's, a ram prime is prolly better than most priming methods and I highly recommend one for new reloaders...

I looked at the Lyman Ram Prime units, and they all show the part that screws into the die holder in the press, and the rod that holds one of the two primer punches, but not the piece that fits on the ram like a shell holder but without any hole in it so the primer rod seats on something. Is this part included in this unit or do I have to make one myself?

[gwpercle]

What you are describing is symptomatic of primers not seated fully into the bottom of the pocket. The first blow seats the primer fully into the pocket , then the second blow fires the fully seated primer.
Using mixed brass gives you inconsistent primer feel when seating...some go in easy some hard, that's normal.
I use mixed brass and use a pocket reamer and pocket uniformer on every case....it helps but you will still feel inconsistent seating on some. I stopped priming on my Pacific Super Deluxe "C" and started using a Lee hand priming tool...A hand tool gives much greater feel, you can feel the primer bottom out in the pocket much better. The primers all must bottom out and be seated fully into the pocket, if they are below flush...do not worry about it, all the way into the pocket is where you want them. You can still prime on the press, just be careful , the press linkage has a mechanical advantage and you can crush a primer because you can't feel it hit bottom.
Try a hand priming tool and seat them all the way in....trust me, you will see a big difference in misfires.
I do all my priming with one now and rarely have any primer problems.
Gary

[adam_mac84]

Interesting thread... following.

I have loaded thousands of 9mm as my first caliber ever reloading, starting a few years and many thousand rounds ago. Using CCI and SB primers on my Lee Turret press I have never found a problem priming mixed range brass. My first thought was that reaming the pockets was giving some issue here... I usually inspect for full seating after finishing the round and placing into my empty factory trays upside down. My only FTF have been when not fully in battery when I was fighting the 9mm cast monster

[Big Boomer]

Have a couple of 9mms for which I cast Lee's 125 gr. r.n. boolit and size on a Star at .3585 and it works in both pistols quite well. One place where I depart from the norm is that I de-prime all my brass by hand. It is a hassle but allows the citric acid to clean the primer pockets quite well and no worry about a build-up of carbon. After cleaning I segregate by headstamp: WIN, R-P, FED, SPEER, etc. Lesser known headstamps are segregated if I have a sufficiently large amount. If not, these are loaded and used for casual target shooting. For serious practice, I use only one headstamp of those mentioned and the least amount I have of whichever group. Since I use a Dillon XL-650, primer seating is never a problem. In some of my reloading - mainly rifle - I use a very old Lee hand primer that I obtained around 40 years ago. If you have even moderate strength in your hands, you can easily seat primers with this type primer seater. Big Boomer

[lwknight]

Every time I get a tight primer pocket , it turns out to be S&B brass. I use a 50/50 mix of baby oil and mineral spirits in my media so I think it lubes the pocket a bit so I can use the tight brass anyway but definitely can feel a difference.

The mix mineral spirits and baby oil makes short work of cleaning guns too. Try it someday.

[lotech]

Once-fired 9mm with the same headstamp is very inexpensive. I've used mostly Winchester for about thirty years with no problems, but other brass may work as well.

[mdi]

I looked at the Lyman Ram Prime units, and they all show the part that screws into the die holder in the press, and the rod that holds one of the two primer punches, but not the piece that fits on the ram like a shell holder but without any hole in it so the primer rod seats on something. Is this part included in this unit or do I have to make one myself?

Not familiar with Lyman and I believe they left the part you're talking about out of the pics. Here's a couple; https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012930411/rcbs-ram-priming-unit https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/priming-tools/priming-tool-accessories/ram-prime-priming-unit-prod56297.aspx

https://leeprecision.com/ram-prime.html

I got one with my Lee Hand Press sonetime in the '80s and have primed thousands of cases and still use it occasionally today in my Pacific C press...

[farmerjim]

I have loaded many thousands of 9mm with mixed range brass. I have never sorted the brass. The only problem is that about 1 out of every 1,000 was a Mil crimped primer and will crush the new primer because the primer pocket was not reamed or swaged. I use the RCBS hand priming tool or the RCBS automatic priming tool filling the tube with the FA vibra prime. Both seat the primer to the bottom on a full stroke of the handle. I have never had a 9mm FTF.