45-70 load workable?

[armednfree]

Looking at using bottom end loads for the 45-70 Marlin 400 grain for a powder coated Lee 405 HB boolit. Probably H322 since that is my favorite powder in 45-70. 51.5 grains should give me 1750 FPS I'd say.

The other options are 3031 and 4064. Probably I'll try those first since I have a good bit of those powders.

Opinions?

[NSB]

You need to get a loading manual. "Bottom end loads" that are 1750fps with a 400 grain bullet? That's not even close to "bottom end". Get a loading manual and look at Trapdoor loads. They're a lot closer to "bottom end". You can even load them down from there if you wish. All my 45-70 loads are actually bottom end. I shoot 405g bullets at anywhere from 1150-1450fps. I have yet to recover even one bullet from a deer shot at any distance at any angle. I think you'll find that there are a lot of powders to use in the 45-70, and it's the least fussy caliber I've ever loaded for. My favorite powders for it are: 4198, Rel 7, 2400, and 5744 (not necessarily in that order). All of those powders will get me 1moa out of my High Wall and close to it out of my 1886.
Sometimes you're better off getting a "new" powder rather than making do with what's on hand. However, the 3031 works quite well in the 45-70. It's not at the top of my list, but it's acceptable.

[armednfree]

I have no desire to shoot my Marlin at what is essentially the same power level as my 45 colt. I have the 45-70 for the very reason to be a thumper. 405 grains at 1750 fits my definition of a thumper. The fact is if I thought I could get away with driving that boolit to 2000 fps I would.

I said bottom end of the Marlin loads, which that is.

[dondiego]

Have you ever shot a 400 grain bullet at 1750 fps out of your Marlin?

[runfiverun]

it ain't no fun in my 86...
try 22 grs of 2400 most of us settle in at 24grs.

[Nobade]

This thread should prove to be entertaining....[emoji16]

[armednfree]

I've fired 55 grains of H322 behind a Remington 400. No, it is not something you want to spend a great deal of time behind. But I didn't buy the rifle for powder puff loads.

Now, will I shoot lower loads just practicing, exactly. But pump it up for hunting.

[JSnover]

Opinions?
Try 10.0 grains of Unique. "Practice" implies paper targets and I get complete penetration from that charge under a 400 grain boolit at 200 yards.
I know, you didn't buy the rifle for 'powder puff' loads but you did ask for opinions. The best way to practice - in my opinion - is with a load that doesn't beat you up.

[scattershot]

The 45/70Marlin I had kicked like a demented mule. The original 45/70 blackpowder load was designed to shoot through a horse at 200 yards. That should be plenty, but it’s your shoulder. Good luck with your load development. Hodgdon has a website with loading info, if you care to go there.

They list 55 grains of H 322 as a max charge (compressed) with that weight jacketed bullet, just shy of 2000 fps. Min load is 50 grains, for 1757 fps.

[Big Tom]

So, you pretty much want to put a Saturn engine with 50 horsepower into your Ferrari and then on the race track put the engine with 750 horsepower in and assume your practice in the Saturn was sufficient? :bigsmyl2:

Hodgdon lists a 400 grain LFP load with H4895 on their site and under their "reduced loads" instructions say that that powder can be reduced to 60% of the published data for slower loads. That gives you a range from about 30 to 55 grains of H4895 to play with and decide on your best practice load.

[DonMountain]

Try 10.0 grains of Unique. "Practice" implies paper targets and I get complete penetration from that charge under a 400 grain boolit at 200 yards.
I know, you didn't buy the rifle for 'powder puff' loads but you did ask for opinions. The best way to practice - in my opinion - is with a load that doesn't beat you up.

I disagree with this opinion completely. You don't practice for running a 26 mile marathon by gently jogging a 1/4 of a mile down to the mailbox everyday in preparation for the big race. If it doesn't hurt to exercise then you aren't developing the muscles for the real job. And that includes purchasing a 460 Weatherby for elephant hunting and then shooting 45 ACP loads out of it at paper targets at 50 feet. My 338 WIN Mag was not purchased for anything but that 400 yard Elk hunt with high pressure jacketed bullet loads, so I don't bother shooting lead out of it. It doesn't serve a purpose. But I do use a lot of lead projectile loads out of my antiques that were designed for them. And the old military rifles and handguns that I don't want to wear the barrels out.

[DocSavage]

Of the various 45/70 rifles I've owned the only one that's a pleasure to shoot is my 1874 Shiloh Sharps and it weighs 14 lbs with a heavy barrel. Any 45/70 that weighs 7-9 lbs is going to beat you into submission with the proposed loads you're talking about. Recoil levels are going to be 3 times the recoil of a 30'06 or the recoil of a safari/dangerous game 375 H&H bolt rifle.

[JSnover]

To each his own.
Since it's all about the technique I don't feel the need for The Big Bang every time I pull the trigger. More important is sight picture, sight alignment, etc; Making sure all is right when I pull the trigger. For field use my '06 and one of my 45-70s (both bolt actions) are loaded more towards the top of the scale with jacketed bullets and I shoot each of them often enough to be competent with either to 200 yards.
Recoil doesn't bother me. To zero a given load, or to develop one, to make sure I know where it hits, it's a fact of life but for practice, yeah I load light.

[Edward]

it ain't no fun in my 86...
try 22 grs of 2400 most of us settle in at 24grs. Me too 24 grains/2400 and I use a 1/2grain dacron on top of that and I am good for 200yds all day long in my Marlin 1895 .

[john.k]

I did load up some loads like that when i first got my Marlin,but with 405 jackets......never again. IIRC it was called the "Elmer Keith load" in some gun mag....If you have a microgroove,recovered bullets show decreasing thickness of the rifling engagement on cast bullets as velocity increases.About 1500f/s the grooves disappear,and the bullet tumbles,and barrel leads.Dunno what happens with powdercoat,might be interesting to know.........Do P/C bullets strip?

[Randy C]

:popcorn: I love my 45/70 but I'm to old to shoot a lever gun that kicks like a mule. His picture looks like he's a big boy. I have friends that don't no what recoil is. They can shoot most anything. I think you gave him good advice but you never know he may show us some good targets if he stands up to that gun. And it stays together.

[gunseller]

In my 1895 Marlin with micro grove barrel when I feel the need I can get a little over 2000fps with a 400 grain cast boolet and if that is not enough for you I have gotten over 1800fps with a 500 grain cast boolet. All with no leading and good enough to shoot coyotes at around 200 yards. I have loaded anything from a .457 round ball up to the hot 500 grain load with IMR3031 and been happy.
Steve

[rototerrier]

24gr of 2400 works for me. I have a couple boxes of full house loads for the novelty of it. I rarely shoot them though. Just not fun to me to shoot the heavy loads on a regular basis.

[largom]

Too old to handle my 45-70's anymore, but I always practiced with my full power hunting loads.

Larry

[NSB]

The 45-70 doesn't kill them any deader just because it kicks more, or pushes the bullet faster. What kills is hitting the vitals. I have to laugh at the people who hunt and think they're going to get better results because their bullet travels faster or has more "knock down power" (a figment of their imagination). However, you asked for opinions and got some. Several guys gave you stellar advice on the 2400 powder. It's been one of my most accurate loads and most pleasant to shoot besides. It kills deer as dead as dead can be....and still exits the other side.

[armednfree]

I don't shoot my rifles, I train with my rifles. Getting the rifle to shoulder, on target and bullet in the air quickly. Snap shooting as it were. That takes practice to be good at, especially with a scope. Like shooting trap. I don't lead and follow through and all that **** with trap, I snap shoot it and do pretty well.

Muscle memory just like anything else. That is low power loads then building to full power nearer to the season. So a simple Trailboss load is plenty for that to start.


And I don't care to even zero the rifle for that. I don't care if I hit the target as long as all shots go together someplace on a large backer,( 3-4 feet square) .

[country gent]

For what you want Id look at IMR 4895 or Varget to start with. These should burn clean and consistently, giving low extreme spreads and standard deviations. Another that might work well is IMR 3031.
I would recommend working up to the level you want velocity and accuracy wise, and using a chronograph if possible. It is seldom you get what the manual gives for velocity from your rifle and loads due to different throats, bore dia, barrel lengths, Lots of powder, primers, crimp, ect, ect. The chronograph narrates the story. The ES and SD numbers can be enlightening also.
I shoot a lot of 45 caliber rifles, and use Black powder loads. These loads are in the 1150-1200 fps range. Rifles are heavier than your marlin is. Pedersoli Sharps in 45-70 34" barrel at 13+ lbs. A BRC Brochardt in 45-70 32" barrel at 12+ Lbs and a C Sharps Hepburn in 45-90 34" barrel and 12 1/2 lbs. The weight of these rifles does help dampen recoil but a full days match of 50-60 rds is a long day for me. I shoot to 500 yds with these rifles and loads.
I see the guys with the marlins and marlin loads at the local club, a lot use a lead sled and 25-50 lbs of lead shot on it to dampen recoil. Ive also seen a couple with cuts and bruises on eyebrows from the rifle loads combination.
One thing to keep in mind is you want the bullet either sub sonic or super sonic all the way to the target no transitions for best performance. Getting into the super sonic range may also cause increased wind age and velocity drop is more over a given range.
The load I shoot is basically the same as what eliminated millions of buffalos in the 1870s so it performance on game is well proven.
Work up your load to the performance level you desire and shoot it out to the farthest distance you plan on shooting, maybe even 100 - 200 yds farther just in case. Know what it does where and hold over needed.

[runfiverun]

the 24 with Dacron is running right near the 1700 your looking for depending on your barrel length.
I use a 435gr gas check bullet, and neither deer nor elk is an issue out past 150yds.
the flat nose and the weight does all the work I need.
I won't use something that doesn't give me 2 holes.


from your powder choices 3031 would be a good one to work with.

[EDG]

I don't shoot my rifles, I train with my rifles. Getting the rifle to shoulder, on target and bullet in the air quickly. Snap shooting as it were. That takes practice to be good at, especially with a scope. Like shooting trap. I don't lead and follow through and all that **** with trap, I snap shoot it and do pretty well.

Muscle memory just like anything else. That is low power loads then building to full power nearer to the season. So a simple Trailboss load is plenty for that to start.


And I don't care to even zero the rifle for that. I don't care if I hit the target as long as all shots go together someplace on a large backer,( 3-4 feet square) .

That is strange.

[Randy C]

Sounds like he should try out for cowboy action shooting. or 3 GUN-I thought about it but Id look like a fool, that kind of muscle memory is almost gone.
My wife's dad can snap shoot from the hip with a pistol and kill cans better than taking time to aim.

[DocSavage]

For most of my 45/70 loads I use 4227 with any weight from 400-525 gr8 cast bullets. I can find 4227 a lot easier in my neck of the woods. Second choice 5744 but that powder is getting a bit pricey .

[robg]

As a 45/70 is a pre expanded boolits it doesn't need to go very fast as it makes a big hole in most things why not buy a 458 win mag if you really want more speed and recoil ?

[armednfree]

As a 45/70 is a pre expanded boolits it doesn't need to go very fast as it makes a big hole in most things why not buy a 458 win mag if you really want more speed and recoil ?

I have considered that but research seems to say that reduced loads don't work real well. Plus the fact that the rifles are very expensive and heavy.


Now tell me about these button bullets and Trailboss. Could save some lead and still do the practice I want.

[Wayne Smith]

The collar button boolit was designed for indoor gallery practice - for the Army? I haven't played enough with mine to compare tajectories over the short ranges for which it is designed. So yes, with a little comparison research you could do your practice a lot cheaper. That's what it was designed for after all.

[Harter66]

My nickle being new to a Marlin and 45-70 . My 20" 1895 stops being fun with 415 gr 462-420 MP and 458193 right at 1750 fps and just as the 4350 cleans up , that makes it about 30-31,000 psi load and just off the bottom of the Marlin loads . The results were the same with H322 only the case was less full .

For fun I loaded some 380gr 462-420s with the HB pins and a few 458193s with 12 gr of Unique . I don't know that I'd call a 380 or 415 gr bullet at 960-980 fps a 45 Colts load but what ever , I have shot a 350 over H322 in a Colts carbine for 1240 fps but it was more than I wanted for the quest . So maybe a 950+ fps 415 is a hopped up Colts load .

Last thought .
A 535 gr NOE 460-543 is rated at a .430 BC at 1100 fps it carries 1000 ftlb past 350 yd . It's even comfortable to shoot .
At 5'9" and 225 I'm not really a little guy but those 1700 fps 415s leave me with a recoil hang over , something I've not experienced shooting 1000s of 1 1/8 oz 14-1500 fps 12 ga loads on ducks and geese .

[MostlyLeverGuns]

H322 is an excellent powder for upper end loads in the 45-70 and 444. There is some anecdotal evidence that reduced charges of H322 may not be advised. 400 grains at 1750 is not a 'mild' or 'fun' load after the first six or eight or ten. For pleasant shooting of 50 to 100 rounds - 20 grains plus/minus 4-5 grains of 2400, 4227, 5744 or Reloder 7. I have never considered recoil fun, sometimes a necessary evil. Notice that the true accuracy shooters - NRA High Power and the Long Range shooters (800-1200 plus yards) keep going to smaller cartridges that work, recoil fatigue reduces the ability to shoot well. Flinching. Over time that recoil will damage your scopes, Yes, even Leupold, Burris, and most others. I hunt with a 300 grain at 2200fps, only for elk, giving a 'flat' trajectory and useful to 350-400 yards, but I don't shoot that load for 'fun'. I match the trajectory/velocity with a 130 grain 30-30 in a similar Marlin. That IS fun and good practice.

[jonp]

The 45/70Marlin I had kicked like a demented mule. The original 45/70 blackpowder load was designed to shoot through a horse at 200 yards. That should be plenty, but it’s your shoulder. Good luck with your load development. Hodgdon has a website with loading info, if you care to go there.

They list 55 grains of H 322 as a max charge (compressed) with that weight jacketed bullet, just shy of 2000 fps. Min load is 50 grains, for 1757 fps.

I come up with about 31ft lbs of recoil. That's a pretty stiff kick in my book. Anyone care to check my math on this?

[armednfree]

I come up with about 31ft lbs of recoil. That's a pretty stiff kick in my book. Anyone care to check my math on this?

No need, just say it will slap the piss out of you then slap you for pissin'

[jonp]

No need, just say it will slap the piss out of you then slap you for pissin'

:popcorn: I bet! Those are great guns and can take the recoil if you can.

[rhouser]

I got my first Marlin 1895-S in the late 70's. With the micro-groove barrel I found I could use the Ruger 1 loads from my Sierra manual. Being in my late 20's I thought it was a manly thing. I would get bloody noses, headaches, and black and blue shoulder whenever I had to do load development. It was my Texas Hog & Dog truck gun.

Fast forward 30+ years. I picked up a new Marlin Stainless Guide Gun with the ballard cut rifling in about 2012. I found it to be amazingly accurate. It still is. I put a set of xcess sights and a rib on it. It is my Camp Gun through today and a fun gun the rest of the time. I generally load it with 405 gr boolits and a dose of SR-4759. I run it at about 1300 fps and it is a great rifle. I have bought the Leverevolution gummy tips and carried it for white tails in the pine swamps. For Hogs, I just switch powders to RL-7 or 3031.

Last is the in between. I have a Win High-Wall with a 30 inch barrel. IMHO, this is the greatest 45-70 of all times. I like to do the 200 - 400 yard "clangers" again at about 1200 fps. Remember to only rest your barrel on your cross sticks.

All in all, I love the 45-70. I have a few "Garret's" in the house for when I am in an area where I think I need them. Cast 405's at 1350+ will hole a hog end to end, so that is where my hunting lives.

Hope this helps with some perspective.

rch

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am of the mind that anything more than is necessary,,, is pointless and a waste of time and energy.

The original 400 gr Trapdoor Carbine load ran at about 1300 fps and was designed, as stated above, to completely penetrate a Horse in any direction. A 250 gr Keith boolit at 900 fps will completely penetrate an elk in any direction. I can do that easily with my .44 Specials. My .44 Magnum rifle is running the same boolits at 1600fps!

My standard .45-70 load is a RCBS 45-300 RNFP(about 325gr) with gas check, 33.0 gr of 5744 for about 1550-1600 fps. I can shoot 40 of these From my Marlin 1895CB (8Lbs) in one sitting in a silhouette match and not have any lasting after effects. There is recoil involved here!, and any more than this would push beyond my limits.

The whole point of that load is to actually hit targets and if I develop a flinch that doesn't happen as much.

Also this load will kill anything in NA as well as some smaller cars.

A 400 gr boolit at say 1400 fps would kill anything on earth as well as some larger cars. There are no prizes for how deep in the dirt beyond your animal the boolit goes. Once you get complete pass thru, anything else is pointless and only detracts from your accuracy by inducing more recoil.

I can fully understand the need that people have to shoot the most powerful gun in the valley. However after doing it myself, I realized that nobody cared, and my shoulder hurt.

Quite a few years ago I bought 5 or so boxes of Federal 12ga slugs for my Tactical Shotgun. Never really looked at the boxes because they were only $3.50 a box of 15 ea. and I got a deal!

Well I went to a 3 gun shoot and when it came time to shoot 2 steel targets at 30 yards I chucked up two of those slugs and let fly The first shot knocked the steel target end over end and tears squirted out of both my eyes!!! the second shot missed and I was done.

Going back to the car and reading the boxes revealed they were actually Federal Maximum 1 oz slugs at 1610 fps! I was totally not prepared for this level of recoil. These two shots resulted in 3 trips to my chiropractor to pop one of my front side ribs back in it's socket, and also resulted in the development of my 'Pumpkin Ball" shotgun loads which are a 400 gr ball at 1100fps.

It also was responsible for my new respect for the 12 ga shotgun as a defensive weapon, able to kill anything on this planet due to the wide variety of payloads that can be launched.

But my point here is that even though that gun can fire **** kicker loads there is seldom any need to actually do it.

And this relates directly to the .45-70 which has the same weight payload at the same speed.

Figure out a lower recoil load (300gr boolit?) to shoot most of the time and if you really feel you must, then shoot your heavy load for hunting. That way you can load about 20 of those, which should last you many years and still shoot your gun a lot and enjoy it with the lighter load.

My .02

Randy

[murf205]

Have you ever shot a 400 grain bullet at 1750 fps out of your Marlin?

I sure have and unless someone spots a T-rex anywhere near, I AINT gonna do it again. It grouped really well but it hurt-plain and simple.

[softpoint]

I won't try to talk you out of shooting 400 grain bullets that fast. But I can see a potential problem trying to push the hollow base Lee bullet that fast. It may rupture the "skirt" of the hollow base and destroy accuracy. That bullet was originally intended for black powder and lower velocity smokeless loads, where it does well. (I have that mold, I shoot Trailboss with it.) A far better boolit for those speeds in my opinion is either the RCBS Gascheck 400 grain or the Ranchdog 425grain, or something similar.

[Randy C]

Hard hitting loads and Speed kills the life of a gun,

[dondiego]

I sure have and unless someone spots a T-rex anywhere near, I AINT gonna do it again. It grouped really well but it hurt-plain and simple.

Yep, a friend loaded up 100 of that persuasion before he tested them and I still have 80 of them and his rifle. They hurt to shoot.

[murf205]

It MIGHT not hurt so much if the butt plate on my 1895 CB Marlin was replaced with a super soft pad but I want to keep it original except for the Skinner sight. The stock lever hurts my hand as well but I can put a DRC glove loop lever on it and still have the stock one too. The heavy load is a handful in my sons Ruger #1 a well. Yeah, I guess I'm a bit wimpy in my old age but so be it! I don't care who you are, you can shoot the lighter loads more accurately.
armednfree, you are right to build muscle memory with the rifle and there is a lot to be said for fast, but remember, fast is good but fast and accurate is golden. Good luck brother.

[rhouser]

If PAST is still making it's should recoil pads, they are an answer. So are the slip on or lace on recoil pads. The leather lace on's look good with the lever guns. All will extend the pull length, so there is that issue.

As above in my post (and the others), I prefer to just load to my comfort and the need based by situation.

v/r rch

[W.R.Buchanan]

Limbsaver has a Slip on Recoil Pad that works really well and I have several mounted on guns that I don't want to put a permanent Pad on.

My .45-70 has a Pachmayer Decelerator on it and it along with a Mercury Recoil Reducer plus it's extra 1 lb of weight the recoil has cut down the recoil of that 325 gr load I talked about above. Like I said that one is running about 1550-1600 fps so it is nothing to sneeze at, but I can still shoot 40 of them in a silhouette match with no after effects.

When I installed the pad I set up the disc sander so as to generate about a 5 degree angle on the sides of the pad This increased the area that contacts my shoulder so as to spread out the force over a larger area. Not a big deal but every little bit helps.

The other pic is the Limbsaver Slip on Pad mounted on my Enfield #4Mk1 which I didn't want to alter. These slip on pads work really well and they are available at Walmart for $20

Randy

[Edward]

I've fired 55 grains of H322 behind a Remington 400. No, it is not something you want to spend a great deal of time behind. But I didn't buy the rifle for powder puff loads.

Now, will I shoot lower loads just practicing, exactly. But pump it up for hunting.That boolit don"t need pumping @ 1300 FPS nothin walks that it will not kill in this USA ,and I mean Thumping to 200yds !Try it with whatever stuff you think is boolit proof you will get educated , 24-26 grain of 2400 and thats all takes . By the way my 534 grain pure lead in my C Sharps does that @ 800 yds all day long@ 1250FPS /Just sayin Ed

[richhodg66]

I have considered that but research seems to say that reduced loads don't work real well. Plus the fact that the rifles are very expensive and heavy.


Now tell me about these button bullets and Trailboss. Could save some lead and still do the practice I want.

I've actually been playing with a .458 doing just that. Dad gave me a big can of Lyman 330 grain bullets, tumble lubed and shot in front of about 16 grains of Unique is pretty accurate and are a hoot to shoot.

Always wondered about wanting to turn the .45-70 into something it's not. Trapdoor loads will flatten a T Rex. The only thing you gain by increased velocity might be a bit of effective range, but if that's a concern, get a .30-06 and be done with it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

All you really gain by increasing the velocity is a Flatter Trajectory.

When I developed my Standard load of 33 gr of 5744 with the RCBS .45-300FNGC (325gr) I started at 25 gr and the trajectory was like a rainbow. So I increased the powder charges 2 gr at a time until I got to 33 gr which gave me a Reasonably Flat trajectory I could use for Short Range Silhouette. The recoil increased in noticeable increments as I increased the charge weights. I tried 35 gr but it was just a little too much with no real gain in flatness. Velocity on this load is between 1550-1600 fps which is nothing to sneeze at.

As it sits with the gun sighted at 150 yards it is about 1" high at 50, 2" high at 100 and 12" low at 200. This means I can shoot the Chickens, Pigs and Turkeys with the Mechanical Zero and then come up 6 MOA (two revolutions of the knob) for the Rams. then back to Mechanical Zero when done. The Lyman 66LA sight allows this to repeat everytime as it has a zero stop so the slide can be released and simply moved back to the original position without having to actually turn the elevation knob.

As you can see this load and setup yields everything you need from a .45-70 until you hunt really big animals. then a .45-405 FNGC mould would be the answer. Obviously similar boolits to these would act the same as large .45 cal boolits all tend to be pretty much the same thing with little differences.

The OP was looking for 1700+ fps and where as this is entirely possible it is just not necessary, and virtually everyone who has chimed in has made that same statement, however the beauty of the free world is you can do whatever you want.

In the shotgun forum there are numerous slugs being made that can be pushed up to 16-1700 fps easily. They are the same kind of Butt Kickers the 400 gr boolits are. (1oz.= 437 gr) You can even buy them already loaded. They hurt me badly! and I only shot 2!

Brian Pearce did and article on loading the .45-70 in Marlin Rifles in the August 2005 issue of Handloader magazine.(best issue ever!) I have used this article as my main source for reloading data for this round as he covered pretty much every base known to man. He had one load that he shot a Cape Buffalo with that not only went clean thru the bull he was aiming at but killed a cow behind it. That load was a 400 gr Belt Mountain Punch Solid (solid brass) running at 2200 fps! Brian is about 6'5" and weighs about 280 and he also shoots heavy recoiling rifles frequently so he could take the hit.

That load would break my shoulder, but it might be worth it just once!

Randy

[Petander]

Hello,long time no post really. Not much casting lately,I apologize.

1895 Marlin got me interested in casting almost 20 years ago. I had a great time with all kinds of loads,ranging from suppressed subsonics to unnecessarily hot (read=fun) loads.

Quick Load shows me a cast 420 grainer @ chronoed 1900 fps. My other favorite thumper was from a Robert Applegate 460 grainer mold @ 1700 fps. Both were using Vihtavuori N130 powder. I also used a Hornady 350 FN @ 2080 fps. Thousands and thousands of boolits downrange , I had a nice 1" recoil pad in the stock.

I sold my Marlin a couple of years ago and now I feel I need one again. Not so much for close range moose hunting because I don't have a moose dog anymore... but simply for casting fun. Most probably with milder loads than I used to enjoy. I hunt with mostly .30 cal and 7 mm and use cast for .30 subs. But I used to cast for a dozen calibers at least.

Is casting coming back to one's life when geezerism hits?

[cb shooter]

In my Winchester/Miroku 1886 carbine i load the Lyman#457191 (292 grains in ww air cooled)ahead of 9.5 gr. Bullseye, and it is good enough for the 200 meter rams. I don't know the velocity but it is a pleasant load to shoot and it shoots to the carbine sights.

[mehavey]

tell me about these button bullets....See https://thefiringline.com/forums//showthread.php?t=560894
(It's Red Dot, but what the heck...)

If loading down a 458, think heavier/longer bullet
See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5825333&postcount=3

But quite frankly, I'm with all the others here that find original 45-70/BP horse-killer loads to more than suffice.

[pmer]

In my 1895 Marlin with micro grove barrel when I feel the need I can get a little over 2000fps with a 400 grain cast boolet and if that is not enough for you I have gotten over 1800fps with a 500 grain cast boolet. All with no leading and good enough to shoot coyotes at around 200 yards. I have loaded anything from a .457 round ball up to the hot 500 grain load with IMR3031 and been happy.
Steve

Plus one using imr 3031. I'm not sure about using hollow bases at this level but I have stopped using 2400, 4198, RL 7 since Goodsteel remarked about how well 3031 was doing for him at Marlin levels of velocity. The kick from 3031 and 4064 is not the same as 2400 etc. Give your shoulder a Christmas present and try 3031. Accuracy is no problem too.
A big charge of 3031 and a 50/50 air cooled 405 grain gas checked booiit passed through my Russian Boar like it wasn't there.

[Motor]

I looked to the Lee 340gr for a mild alternative to my 300gr JHP upper end loading in my Marlin 1895 Guide Gun. I'm powder coating the Lee and using a near start load (Trapdoor data) from the Lyman cast handbook.

I'd call it a great success. The slower heavier boolit shoots the same POI at 50 yards as the hot 300gr HP and is about 3" low at 100 yards. :)

Motor

ETA: I'd have to check my card file to be sure but I'm pretty sure I'm actually using IMR-3031 for this cast boolit load.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I hope the OP is still watching this thread as there is a ton of good info here as well as a vast amount of hard won experience.

Oh,,, and Merry Christmas to all of you!!!!

Randy

[Strtspdlx]

I'm watching this. I'm eagerly waiting my fid casrd so I can go pick up my rifle and some 3031 powder. Lots of good info here. Very excited to give some.of it a try.

[Motor]

I apologize. I'm not using IMR-3031 with the Lee 340gr in my Marlin 1895 Guide Gun. I'm actually using IMR-4198.

I'm using 34gr which is a start load for a 330gr boolit. (There isn't data for 340gr) I do want to point out though that the start load for IMR-3031 is 43gr and is actually the load that's in bold type which means it's potentially the most accurate load.

I'm sure the reason I went with IMR-4198 is: 1) I only use it in 45-70 and .223 both of which use a limited amount, one by virtue of limited use. 2) I would need 9 more grains of the 3031 and still be 100fps slower than the 4198 load. 3) I have hungry milsurp rifles that simply love the 3031 so I save it for them. ;)

Motor