Rossi 92 . . . Maybe it is me

[TCLouis]

I have yet to find a cast boolit load this gun will shoot.
358156 is best so far with only 12 grains of 2400, 12.5 opens right up.
180 with lots of 296 (Lar45 or RD not sure which, I have both) was awful.
358429 sucked wind also
Even at 50 yards the best I have got is about 2.75" at 50.

Dang I had planned to hunt the wily whitetail with it but I ain't gonna do it with that lousy performance.
I can get cloverleafs at 50 with a stock Japanese Type 99 with that 20 pound trigger pull so i am disappointed with the Rossi 92 at best.
If I have to go to coated bullets it is out the door!!!

I will/do NOT abide by any gun that will not shoot cast boolits.

[gundownunder]

You're not giving us much to work with here!

What have you tried?

As a rule of thumb the Rossie's tend to prefer a lighter bullet, like 125gr - 158gr.
If you need a heavy bullet for larger critters like pigs, then generally speaking the Rossie's tend to prefer them driven as hard as possible.

That said, every rifle is a law unto itself.
I have a Marlin 357 Cowboy, and it tends to prefer all its bullets at 175gr - 180gr even when I use powders like Trailboss.

[claude]

FWIW my Hartford, 24" barrel likes the NOE 180WFN (187gr lubed and checked) driven at a lively pace, in the 1700fps range.

[northmn]

Cast bullets can be a bit of a challenge at times. You run into variables like lube, alloy, hardness and sizing as well as loading. I have had 30-30's that would eat about anything and old BA military rifles that were very fussy. Hardness and sizing are the two big ones for me.
I have a 38-55 Marlin CB that everyone tells me should be shooting at least 380 bullets and 381 better. One individual that has more than one claims it ahs a 379 bore. when I slugged it which was tricky as it is 7 grooved it seemed to be 377. It shot a 375 jacketed just fine. Some claim they are made 378. It shoots a sized 379 very well for me at 100 yards and the larger ones do no better and chamber harder. Just an example, but the road to getting the rifle to shoot was a bit rocky.

DEP

DEP

[fecmech]

You don't mention a caliber or what you plan to hunt. I have 2 .357 Rossi's both are honest 3-4 moa 100 yd rifles with the Lee 125 rf in the 1200-1400 fps range depending on powder. I have not done much with heavier bullets as I don't hunt but I'm confident I could come up with a 158 of some type that would be accurate enough for deer to 100 yds. My standard accuracy load for the .357's is any of the following bullets(lee 125 rf,Lee 120TC,rcbs124CN)and 4.5 Bullseye for approx 1200 fps. For a bit more speed with excellent accuracy same bullets and 6.0/Power Pistol for about 1400 fps.

[three50seven]

Without knowing what caliber you're referring to, it's hard to answer your question. I had one in .44 mag with the 20" octagon barrel that loved 250gr SWC over Trailboss in a .44 Special case. I could reek havoc on the 8" gongs from 100 yds all day long. That crescent steel butt plate was hard on the shoulder when shooting mags though...

[hornady308]

My best two deer loads in my Rossi, with bullets sized to .359, are:
A. 358156, wcww, 16gr Lil Gun, CCI small pistol mag., loaded in 357 brass.
B. 175gr cast hp (NOE), acww/pure lead (50/50), 15gr Lil Gun, same primer, loaded in 38 Special brass to an oal of 1.600"

Both loads shoot into less than 3" at 100yd.

[rintinglen]

THE best load for my Rossi is an RCBS 38-162 gas-checked SWC,(similar to the 358-156) sized .359, over 15.7 grains of H110 in Remington cases with Winchester Small Magnum Pistol Primers. With Iron Sights it will shoot into 4 inches at 100 yards. If I could put a scope on it, it would do better, but then it would not be the handy carbine I bought it to be. I fear my 60 something eyes are limiting factor in this equation.

[claude]

You don't mention a caliber

Without knowing what caliber you're referring to

357 Mag Rossi 92 . . . Maybe it is me

[outdoorfan]

I would first look at bedding and possible negative harmonics. Have you verified all that is good? If something is seriously amiss there, no load will shoot for ****. I'm assuming your shooting technique is sound because you said you shoot the other rifle well.

If the bedding is sound, then have you verified that the barrel is free of constriction?

[TCLouis]

I shot clover leaf and other small groups the next day with 86 Winnie (made in 97) so it is just the 92 357.

I have some Lil Gun I set back after the throat damage issues were discussed using it in pistols so I will try that next.
Lil Gun did give em the most precise loads in my GP100 with 180s before I set it aside.

I have a new staff for my tang sight coming in next week and I will see if that helps though I have no issues with precision shooting the 86 and Type 99 sights and the type 99 is tough for me.

[dubber123]

I'm sorry if I missed it, but have you slugged it? .001" sometimes makes all the difference.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

I am afraid that I am in the same boat O.P.
I have a Navy Arms Rossi in 357 magnum that I have all but given up on. One day I may have it re-barreled.....again.
While this rifle was under warranty I had it re-barreled. The rifling, throat and chamber were rough.
The "new" barrel is better, but is not right. I have tried many, many bullet and powder combinations and found two loads that shoot fairly well ( 3"-4" at 100 yards from a rest with a target tang sight).
Slugging the barrel and a chamber casting showed what I think are the problems.
The bore is .35 and the rifling is very shallow, as I measure it about 2.25 thousandths deep. I have a good micrometer but not dial calipers.
The throat is over sized and looks like it was bored with a dull spade bit. A lot of deep radial grooves.

With all that, bullets sized over .356 cause leading just ahead of the chamber. This is the case no matter what the alloy or pressure.

Desperado Cowboy Bullets 20-1 alloy 158 grain bullets that I size down to .356 with 4.5 grains of Green Dot is one load the rifle likes.
Hunters Supply hard cast alloy 193 grain bullets that I size down to .356 with 16.5 grains of Reloader 7 is the other load that is "accurate" out to 100 yards.
One of the ironies about this picky rifle for me is my foray into bullet casting. I have cast bullets that duplicate the size, shape, alloy and used similar/close lube as the two bullets above. So far I can't get either of my bullets to shoot better than 8" groups at 100 yards.

I wish you luck. I agree that a rifle that can't shoot cast bullets is like a brand new bowling ball..........pointless.

[yeahbub]

TC, have you slugged that barrel? I've done so to a number of Rossi's and Marlins and it's common to find constrictions immediately in front of the chamber and/or at the rear sight dovetail. Another common characteristic on the round barrel versions is the "reverse taper" bore, tight at the breech end and loose at the muzzle. Usually it's only a matter of a few .0001"s, so they'll shoot jacketed okay, but cast loads with any serious pressure behind them will suffer gas erosion as they leak in the progressively looser bore. Slugging will go a long way toward telling you what your barrel's condition actually is over and above just bore and groove diameters. From what you've posted so far, it seems a pressure lapping session would be a good bet. There are few factory barrels which are not improved by it, so your answer is probably within reach.

[Thin Man]

I have a Rossi 92 Trapper (357) that prefers the 358156 above every other boolit I have pushed down it's barrel. Never have used a jacketed bullet. This rifle came to me with a receiver sight on it and a blank filler in the rear sight dovetail. I would rather have a longer sight radius but can make do as this one is so handy. Favorite powder is H110, cannot recall the load without digging through all my notes (and that's a lot of notes). Good luck with your rifle.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Yes try the Lil Gun, 15gr. and a 358156HP is excellent in mine.

[kungfustyle]

Check the screws in the barrel bands and stock, My 44mag gets finicky if I don't make sure that everything is tightened down. You can also try these:
http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZBJ-38S

[Texas by God]

Try CCI Blazer .38 special 158 rn factory loads. If it won't group those tight at 25 yds- I'd send it on down the road. It's a cheap accuracy test.
Mine groups around 2-3"@100 yds with 158xtp/LilGun and little cloverleafs at 40yds with the 150 Lee 358swc and any good .38 spl load.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Buckshot]

.............A couple guys have mentioned 'Bearing issues' better known as "Levergun-itis" :-) Gotta remember there is a lot of junk hanging onto and/or bearing on the barrel. More years ago then I care to recall there was an old guy (Freeman Tatum) who shot various Silhouette matches that our range hosted 2 days a month. One was 'Cowboy' and that meant cast lead, not only cowboy type rifles.

Now ole Freeman was an exceeding well educated man, and a degreed engineer. As a Captain in the Army, after the Normandy landings, he was in a group tasked with attempting to capture German scientific/manufacturing facilities. After the war he was an engineer With a few well known government research facilities. He was involved in the early development with inertial navigation, and also laser guided munitions.

So one day he was sitting behind one of the tables at the range officers building, looking over a lever gun in 357. I don't recall which make but I'm leaning toward a Marlin M94. He ended up removing the magazine tube and hand guard. He then proceeded to one of the benches and commenced to fire groups starting with the barrel not touching anything. He then progressed by by supporting the barrel by hand at various distances back toward the action. After that he re-installed the mag tube sans handguard. Then re-shot the groups again.

He completed his testing the following week ( he shot on Tuesdays like I did). This included having the wooden hand guard re-installed. I noticed him back at the range officers table later and he had the hand guard off and was putzing around with an empty pop can. What he ended up doing was to cut a rectangle of pop can aluminum and stuck it between the barrel and barrel band, and put it all back together. After that he was very pleased with the way it shot. :-) How he figured out that was what it wanted I had no idea. I had learned my lesson about getting Freeman discussing black arts, as he'd go out to his car and come back with a circular slide rule or start a dissertation on the laws of probabilities and/or random disperal in populations of varying numbers :-) But to a layman it was obvious to me that his accuracy issues had to do with 'fit' :-)

...............Buckshot

[TCLouis]

I put a tang sight on it today and got rid of that abomination of a buckhorn sight and am hoping that will improve things also.

From shooting some "left overs" mixed load rounds at 25, I realize even the standard sight stem is likely a bit too long and needs about 2 threads in length removed. It bottoms out with 5-6 threads showing above the lock nut. Wonder if the stem can simply be turned out with the adjustment and then returned.

Funny how the least little pressure . . . added or subtracted can make a big difference.

Luckily I have a couple of guns that just keep on doing what I ask of them year after year.

[wv109323]

I would try an entirely different boolit. I have one 158gn. mold that will not shoot.

[azrednek]

Not trying to brag but my shorty Puma Rossi will print pretty clusters at 50 yards, bench rested shooting gas checked 38156's. I used 2400 but can't recall the load, most likely a max or near max published load. I never did any serious shooting with it beyond 75. I also did fairly well casually plinking 38's using the Lee 125.

Can't recall the mold number but I got excellent results using a Lee round nose. I'm guessing, think it was in the 150-165 weight range. I do know for certain my castings were from straight clip-ones. Best I recall I used it with a medium load of Herco taken from an early 80's Hercules manual. At the time I was shooting the Lee slugs not sized rolled in Lee goo and dusted with Motor Mica.

This paragraph I'll brag a little. About 10 years ago I rolled a running Coyote with Shorty at about 35 yards. Got'em with a jacketed factory 38+P.

[Ed in North Texas]

Without knowing what caliber you're referring to, it's hard to answer your question. I had one in .44 mag with the 20" octagon barrel that loved 250gr SWC over Trailboss in a .44 Special case. I could reek havoc on the 8" gongs from 100 yds all day long. That crescent steel butt plate was hard on the shoulder when shooting mags though...

I'm sure it is heresy, but my 92 in .45 Colt didn't make friends with my over 70 shoulder. I looked into buying a butt stock from Taurus, but was told Taurus doesn't sell the Casull butt stock. Went to Boyd's and bought one of their pre-finished stocks. Steve's Gunz has these IIRC. Drop in fit, though I think the stock was actually for the Winchester, maybe not. But there is lots of extra wood once the screw is tightened. If I wanted to refinish, there's extra to sand off. Takes the sting out of the warmer .45 Colt loads and the crescent butt. I guess I'm just a wuss, but shooting crescent butt rifles and some of the old military black powder rifles (.50-70 Remington RB, .577-450 Martini Henry, etc.) leaves me with a lot of respect for the men of the late 1800s. Don't know how the Welshmen stood for the repeated volley fire at Rorke's Drift (other than fear generated adrenaline, and maybe a heavy uniform coat).

[TCLouis]

Crescent buttstock gone.
Buckhorn rear sight gone.

Tang sight installed (front sight centered and tang sight is almost out of windage)

Loaded nothing but upper level loads with 4 different boolits today, all except the 357429GB tightened right up at 50 (well 2 - 2 1/2" tightened). As FEMECH and others have said, it appears that one has to push to upper level loads with lighter weight boolits to get the Rossi to perform.

Backed off .5 grain (PROMO) on one of the plain base boolits and group became a pattern. 5.5 had promise, 5.0 was not even in the race.

Tomorrow it is WC 820(N) (AA#9 speed) it works good in 7mm TCU, 7.7X58, 30-06 so maybe it will perform here also.
Funny it works just fine in all of those with standard Winchester SP/LP primers, but in 357 Mag and 44 Mag I have to use magnum primers to light it off.
In the two pistola cartridges some fire "normally", some hang, some reduced power(by sound), and some just burn off some of the deterrent coating leaving brownish colored powder and stuck boolit. This has been tried multiple times with the same result. Standard pistol primers work in the TCU and the rifle cartridges. Go figure!
Something I have never figured out, but rather just go with it, but since I have a lot of the WC 820(N) I wish it did not require the Mag primers because I have few and they are needed for the cartridges I shoot most.

[ironhead7544]

I would slug the barrel. Get some slugs from Lead Bullet Technologies. They slip on a cleaning rod and are easy to push through. You will feel any restrictions. No hammer needed.

If it seems OK, then I would put 200 rounds of J-word 158 gr with a max charge of 296/H110 through it to smooth the bore. If that doesnt work, it is probably the barrel.

Had a couple of 357 Magnum Rossi rifle from before Braztec took over. Both were very accurate with cast boolits from their 16" and 20" barrels.

Had a number of later model 357 and 44 Magnums from Rossi. I found they were a crapshoot with 50% chance of being OK.

[hornady308]

You are not alone. While my 357 Rossi has been very easy to deal with, I have a 45 Rossi that was a nightmare. I finally found ONE cast bullet that works really well in that rifle (Lee 250 RF). All other bullets, sized to the same point, whether heavier or lighter, simply would not group well. I don't understand, but at least I have one design that works so well that I can use it for hunting out to 100 yards without worry.

[Eddie Southgate]

My sons 44-40 seems to shoot about anything you stick in it really well .

Eddie

[azrednek]

FWIW, my Puma Rossi 38/357 carbine shot clusters benchrested at 50 yards. I used a Lyman 38156 loaded with 2400 but can't recall the charge. I never did much with the Rossi past 50 yds. The Lee 125 did surprisingly good using published 38 Special data. I do recall the 38 load shooting at 75 yards using Kentucky windage was all over the target but much better than expected at 50 or less yds.