Tree rats with cast.

[Johnch]

I got invited to a tree rat hunt ( squirrel ) in a few weeks .
I hate shooting the same thing as everone else , so I dusted off the RCBS 22 cal 55 gr mold to night .
I casted up 200 or so .
I lubed and sized them , I hate sizing those little @$#@#@#$ bullets
Later I will load a few in 223 with 5.5 gr of 700X
If my load notes are right that should give me about 1650 FPS .

I am glad I wrote down my loads 20 years back so I don't have to start over with the load .

I bet I will get some strange looks when I pull out a CF rifle with a 4 - 16 X40 scope .
I will just tell them I want to be sure they are dead [smilie=l:

I was looking for a lighter load , about 1200 - 1400 FPS to try any ideas ?
I looked in my Lyman book and their starting loads are 1600 fps+


Johnch

[David R]

I couldn't get any accuracy from my 222 unitl I hit over 2,000 fps. If I look in the OLD lyman cast boolit, it says 8 grains of unique*

* = potentially most accurate load. It works for me.

I am shooting a 45 grain boolit, like you said, @%^@#$ to put the gas check on. Teeny boolits for my fat fingers.

Good luck, sounds like fun.

David

[rhead]

4.5 grains ou unique with a 148 grain wadcutter in a NEF 357 rifle works for me out to aound 40 yards. I use a williams pep sight forcarring ease. If you use a repeater use the 158 semi wadcutter. both are quiet and accurate in my guns. Loads of fun

[35remington]

johnch, have you shot these loads for accuracy in your gun before? Just wondering how they do. Usually I do better with the slower powders as opposed to the shotgun types in the .22's.

I wouldn't be tempted to go too slow. If I slow my .22 cast bullets down too much (usually cast of linotype) killing effect isn't too good on small game. The hard bullets would zip on through, so I took to filing a flat nose on my 225438's and that seemed to work better. If you keep the velocity up you won't have to do that.

1600 fps should be okay for small game. Meat damage won't be excessive.
I shot a heavy barrelled .22-250 for small game for a couple of years with various cast bullets around 2,000 fps or so and can attest that it makes a hell of a squirrel gun. A hit through the ribcage with a linotype bullet just makes a neat hole, but a hit in the head will pretty much remove all of it. More bullet deceleration and energy transfer with the head shot.

[David R]

Before I joined here, I shot squirrels with my model 24, 222/20 guage. I learned right away, you better aim for the head. I tried reduced loads with 55 fmj, but accuracy went to heck in a hurry.

[Johnch]

I used to shoot the RCBS 55 gr bullet out of my 788 , but I stoped when I found bigger bullets were easyer on the fingers . [smilie=l:
I got 1 1/2 - 2 " at 100 yds with the 5.5 gr of 700X
I did find the load notes from the last time I loaded for this rifle
That is where I am going to start from .
I found in this rife water droped WW don't lead at these velocitys .
I tryed faster loads but they leaded and groups turned to patterens , I never had Lino to play with then .

I will post my finding with this batch of WW , may have to harden up the alloy to match the older WW that I used years back.

I try to head shoot all the small game I shoot , weather it is tree rat , rabbit or cat .

I have load data somewere for loads as slow as 1200 fps in the 233 with cast , but I can't find the loads .

I have 7 or 8 3 ring note books of loads and notes I copyed out of mag. over the years

One of these days when I have nothing else to do I will sort them all out .

[Buckshot]

............Here's some 223 stuff. Rifle is a Savage M112 single shot, 26" bbl, 8-24 Tasco.

http://www.fototime.com/9112367826A163F/standard.jpg
100 yards

http://www.fototime.com/B564A31BBBDCBE6/standard.jpg
50 yards

I don't have any targets for it but the Lyman 43gr RN over Bullseye was producing really nice groups at 50 yards. I think the charges were about 3.0grs or a bit more. I'd started at 1.5 grs and tilting the muzzle up was definetly required to get the slug to exit the barrel.

I was getting 5 shoot groups at 50 yards comparable to those you'd get from a 22 bolt action with everyday ammo. Say 1" or so. Velocities were also running in the 22LR range. I'm afraid I spoiled several groups by watching the bullet. At that speed you could see the slug come up into your field of view and then angle down to the target. It was unique and fun to see the boolit fly on it's way, and then a hole magicly appear in the target :D.

.................Buckshot

[drinks]

John;
I have been shooting a Lyman 83gr gc in my .243 at up to 2600fps with no leading, using wws, water dropped and LBT soft blue, getting 3/4" groups at 50 yds.
I use 4227.

[beagle]

John...Don't know if these will be of use to you but I did some work with "whisper loads" in the .223 some time back. They're accuarate at 50 yards./beagle

Bullet Weight Powder Weight AverageVelocity StandardDeviation Primer Sized Overall Length Comments
Ideal 225353 44.5 Bullseye/dacron ¼” square 2.0 1045 15.9 WSR .2255 2.015 1.5” @ 50 yards

Ideal 225353 44.5 Red Dot/dacron¼” square 2.0 1026 20.2 WSR .2255 2.015 1.1” @ 50 yards

Ideal 225353 44.5 Bullseye/dacron ¼” square 1.5 855 33.5 WSR .2255 2.025 1.5” @ 50 yards

Ideal 225353 44.5 Red Dot/dacron ¼” square 1.5 859 27.3 WSR .2255 2.025 2” @ 50 yardsvertical stringing

Ideal 225353 44.5 Clays/dacron ¼” square 1.5 754 20.0 WSR .2255 2.025 1.5” @ 50 yards

Ideal 225353 44.5 700-X/dacron ¼” square 1.5 857 10.2 WSR .2255 2.025 1” @ 50 yards

Ideal 225353 44.5 WW 231/dacron ¼” square 1.5 699 18.8 WSR .2255 2.025 2” @ 50 yards

Ideal 225353 44.5 Titegroup/dacron ¼” square 1.5 761 21.6 WSR .2255 2.015 1.25” @ 50Yds

22-55-SP RCBS 57.4 700-X/dacron ¼” square 1.5 763 13.9 WSR .2255No GC 2.019 1.5” @ 50Yds


22-55-SP RCBS 57.4 Red Dot/dacron ¼” square 1.5 737 17.6 WSR .2255No GC 2.019 1.5” @ 50Yds

[Leftoverdj]

You're still going to have a .22. I had a go with 50 grain bullets from a .22 WMR at about 1550 fps and was sadly disappointed.

Killing power increases dramatically and body shots become feasible when you step up to .25 cal. or larger. I dunno about .243; never tried that one. .30 cals are really good killers but have accuracy problems with light weight bullets in typical fast twist barrels. The Lee soup can might work well and is about the heaviest bullet I would be willing to use for tree shots.

Weight is the main objection I have to .38 Special for squirrel. I don't wanna risk dropping that much lead on someone. My H&R shoots WCs really well and I have killed a few squirrels with it and was very pleased with the results. Might work well for someone in a less settled area although trajectory gets to be a bit of a problem past 30-35 yards.

The .32 H&R Mag looks really good in theory, but I'm not hunting much these days, and am not about to spend what Marlin wants for such a specialized purpose. My ancient Savage 23 in .25-20 does me fine for my annual Brunswick stew harvest.

[Johnch]

I will test my loads this week end on live tree rats , not paper .
I am getting 5 shot goups right at 1.25" at about 1600 fps .

I will hope fully not miss at all or in front of my freinds . :bigsmyl2:

Johnch

[carpetman]

58 grain RCBS .22 cal 2,000-2200 fps from my 22-250 or .222's works great. This is a gas checked bullet and it shoots good without the check too. My .223 doesnt like it. If that wont kill a squirrel,someone needs to go back and study those pictures of bears and squirrels again as there appears to be some confusion.

[KCSO]

I use a 30-40 or an Argie with a 32 apc bullet from a Lee mould and 4.5 of Red Dot. This load will shoot under 1" at 35 yards and is one of my pet small game loads. Too much more velocity and it tears up the meat. It also has the advantage of being very quiet.

[Johnch]

8 Rats for 9 shots ( I flat out missed 1 shot ) [smilie=w:
Would have tryed for more but the guys shoot up all my other rnds shooting beer cans off the fence .
Everyone wanted to try the 788 out with cast .


If my fingers weren't so big and got pinched sizing those #^%&$$ little bullets I would shoot it a lot more .

Thanks for the feed back and loads .

Johnch

[Dale53]

A flat nose bullet in the .22 CF's at 1200-1400 fps kill very well. RN are not worth a tinkers dern.

My favorite all time squirrel rifle is my Marlin 94 .25/20. 257420 ahead of 4.0 grs of lUnique does a DANDY job. I normally shoot them in the head, but sometimes Mr. Squirrel will not give me a head shot. Then one thru the slats takes him right out of the tree - instant kill.

My new squirrel rifle will be my TC Carbine with the "just received" .32 mag barrel from SSK (J.D. Jones). My new toy. I have all summer to get it ready for squirrels. I can use the Hornady HBWC at about 800 fps or maybe the new group buy .314"x120 FN. We'll see what shoots the best. I intend to try it out early next week. Wish me luck!

Dale53

[Larry Gibson]

A flat nose bullet in the .22 CF's at 1200-1400 fps kill very well. RN are not worth a tinkers dern.

My favorite all time squirrel rifle is my Marlin 94 .25/20. 257420 ahead of 4.0 grs of lUnique does a DANDY job. I normally shoot them in the head, but sometimes Mr. Squirrel will not give me a head shot. Then one thru the slats takes him right out of the tree - instant kill.

My new squirrel rifle will be my TC Carbine with the "just received" .32 mag barrel from SSK (J.D. Jones). My new toy. I have all summer to get it ready for squirrels. I can use the Hornady HBWC at about 800 fps or maybe the new group buy .314"x120 FN. We'll see what shoots the best. I intend to try it out early next week. Wish me luck!

Dale53

Got to agree with Dale and the success johnch has had. I killed many a squirrel (picket pins and red diggers) with cast bullets in .22 CFers. I use the .22 Hornet (Ruger #3, Savage 23D and TCs), tthe .222 (M788) and .223s (M700V, 24, M70 an TC) with 11.5-14" twist. I've used Lymans 225438, 225415 and 225462. Velocity was from 1200 fps to 2200 fps. I quickly made the same observation that the flat nose bullet killed well and the round nose bullets were very poor killers with body/chest shots.

I've stuck with 225415 in the .223. I use it over 4 gr of Bullseye which gives 1 - 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards at 1520 fps. This load kills as well or better than Stingers or Yellow Jackets in the .22LR out to 100 yards. I cast these bullets of WWs.

In the 14" twist .222 and .223 I used 16-18 gr of H4895. These run at 2000 - 2200 fps and are every bit as deadly as a .22 WRF HP. I cast the bullets of linotype.

Dale

In my Savage 23B 25-20 I've also found 457420 over 4 gr of Unique to be a very deadly load on squirrels. It runs 1367 in the 20" barrel of my rifle. I also have a plain base 257283 HP tha casts a 80 gr bullet out of soft range lead. Over 2.7 gr Bullseye it runs 1096 fps and shoots 1" at 50 yards. It IS a very deadly killer on squirrels!

Larry Gibson