Removing a stuck lathe chuck ????

[abunaitoo]

Two lathes I'm trying to save.
Sheldon LWQU and Logan 927.
Having to take them apart to get them home.
I got the Sheldon home.
Working on the Logan now.
From what I've been told, they have not been used in at least 10 years. Looks like maybe more.
Only surface rust. Everything is coming apart without a problem..........Except the chucks.
With the little tools I had, I just couldn't get the off while still on the bed.
Took the head and chuck off together to get them home.
I've tried the impact gun without success.
Suggestions?????

[DougGuy]

Logan has a 1 1/2 x 8 threaded spindle. The backing plate should simply unscrew from the spindle. Don't use the back gears to lock the spindle it will only break off the teeth.


http://www.youtu.be/watch?v=7dC13inQC9A



Also.. If you have it home now, why does the chuck have to come off? Can you not reassemble the lathe and leave the chuck on?

[Bent Ramrod]

I have an Atlas that had a stuck 3-jaw on it. I anointed the spindle joint with Kroil, chucked a piece of hexagonal stock in the chuck, put a long box wrench on the stock, rotated the chuck until the wrench was at a 45 degree angle, locked the back gears and hung my trusty anvil off the other end of the box wrench.

The setup was in the “unscrew” direction, of course. Every other day or so, I would tap the wrench lightly with a hammer handle, and drip in some more Kroil. Don’t bash the wrench when locked this way or you will lose gear teeth. Just a mild tapping to set up vibration.

Tubal Cain’s ideas are good, too.

The chuck came loose after five days. I came in to give the wrench its daily tapping, and the anvil sunk to the floor on the first one. Any other convenient weight, like a bucket of wheel weights, would work as well, of course.

[bstone5]

Might try the 50/50 mixture of acetone and automatic transmission fluid to penetrate to the threads on the chuck. Apply let set and reapply while trying to unscrew the chuck. May take a while but the acetone will carry the transmission fluid to the threads. The acetone evaporates leaving on the lube on the threads.

[country gent]

In a normal turning situation you are constantly tightening the chucks on the spindle. After years of turning and vibration they can be set tight on the tapered section. Some times a few interrupted cuts in reverse will help to loosen them up but be carefull as they spin fast off the spindle. Removing the chuck from the backer plate ( if it has one) a heavy bar can be bolted across it then a wood block on the ways and use the drive belt to hammer the bar on the block. If no backer plate then a piece of hex and wrench in place of the bar works also.

[abunaitoo]

I never use the back gear, or any of the gears, to lock the spindle. Don'y want to have to deal with broken gears.
I'd like to get the chuck off to make it lighter to move around. Also just because.
This Logan is much heavier than the Sheldon. I can carry the Sheldon. Not so much the Logan.
Haven't tried to remove the chuck from the Sheldon because it's light enough for me to carry.
The Logan may just be for parts. The cabinet is way to big, and heavy, for me to move.
I hate seeing good equipment going to waste.

[JimB..]

Lots of things to try first, but in the end you can always remove the chuck from the backplate and then cut the backplate off, removing the last of the threads with a pick. That said, I’d try the other suggestions first, I especially recommend significant steady pressure with lubrication and frequent tapping. Just be careful, cause if it’s not rusted on the threads, when it breaks free the weight will fall, of course the weight only needs to be an inch off the ground.

Good luck!

[abunaitoo]

Pictures
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[akajun]

Kroil it up, heat the chuck with a heat gun, not the spindle, make some cuts with the lathe running in reverse, use deep cuts but go slow and be quick to pull the carriage out of the way, it will come off.

Ive also seen where people have made a threaded cap that screws into the back of the spindle where the nut goes to use as a backing wrench they chucked a bolt in the chuck and used an impact wrench.
Also seen where people have used a strap wrench or oil filter wrench on the pulley surfaces with the impact gun.

[bob208]

I made a wrench. kind of like a action wrench that clamps on the tail of the spindle. the handle rest against the bench then stick a long bar in the chuck and then pull it to break it lose. there is no use of the gears at all.

[dkf]

On a stubborn chuck for a threaded spindle we always took at piece of round stock (around 1")and broke it loose by putting the rod crossways into the jaws. Leverage is your friend. Obviously you have to make sure you turning the right direction. If you do not want to uses the gear (and it doesn't have a good brake) you can get a strap wrench around the pulleys to hold the spindle stationary on most smaller older lathes. The strap wrench will hold on that big gear nicely.

For type L long taper spindle you loosen the locking collar and give a firm but not overly hard whack with a soft hammer on the side of the chuck to break it loose.

[wonderwolf]

On a stubborn chuck for a threaded spindle we always took at piece of round stock (around 1")and broke it loose by putting the rod crossways into the jaws. Leverage is your friend. Obviously you have to make sure you turning the right direction. If you do not want to uses the gear (and it doesn't have a good brake) you can get a strap wrench around the pulleys to hold the spindle stationary on most smaller older lathes. The strap wrench will hold on that big gear nicely.

For type L long taper spindle you loosen the locking collar and give a firm but not overly hard whack with a soft hammer on the side of the chuck to break it loose.

I've read of a similar technique in where somebody had hung a weight at the end of the length of rod (5-8x the length of rod to the diameter of the chuck) The rod and weight are parallel or slightly inclined to the ground, shoot the threads with keroseane or what have you and walk away. Come back the next day and with a soft mallet hammer around the chuck, hit again with oil and add some weight.

[Blanket]

Might try the 50/50 mixture of acetone and automatic transmission fluid to penetrate to the threads on the chuck. Apply let set and reapply while trying to unscrew the chuck. May take a while but the acetone will carry the transmission fluid to the threads. The acetone evaporates leaving on the lube on the threads. This to start with for several days. Make an L shaped wrench with a hex to clamp in the chuck and a long handle. Make sure there are no set screws. Wrap a belt around the tail end of the spindle and secure to stop rotation. Smack the end of your long handle with a dead blow hammer. If it does not break free, repeat over days

[abunaitoo]

I tried heating it up today. Didn't budge.
I have a 11/16 allen wrench in the chuck.
Strap wrench on the main gear.
Have it standing up now. Hoping the PB will soak into the threads.
I'll ave to get a better strap wrench.
I'll keep at it. It's going to come off.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I'm a strong proponent of correctly applied brute force!

A single, firm blow with an impact wrench will often work wonders, especially if the offending nut is already under tension. If you use some sort of extended handle on the wrench, the stroke should be applied close to wrench head to prevent the elasticity in the handle soaking up the force of the blow.

[wonderwolf]

Time and force I think are still your friend here, curious to see how this goes.

[abunaitoo]

I strapped it to some 2x4 to keep it steady.
Only had a cheap plastic strap wrench.
Put the 11/16 allen in the chuck, and a pipe extension.
Strap wrench rubber belt broke.:mad:
I have to get a better strap wrench.
Have it standing on the chuck, soaking with PB Blaster.
Also have the Sheldon standing on the chuck soaking.
They will not defeat me. I will win. Both chucks will come off.:mad:

[W.R.Buchanan]

Is there a spindle lock pin? if so, engage it and put the Chuck Key in the key hole and yank on it. Prying on the jaws is a loser and will ruin them. Applying any leverage against the jaws will ruin them.

I used to use a large crescent Wrench on a Jaw until I was slapped and then shown the correct way to do it.

There has got to be a way to lock the spindle. Once done, use the chuck key.

If there is no Spindle Lock then stuff a wadded up rag between the gears and lock it that way. Then use the chuck key.

Typically Threaded Spindle Noses have a step that the chuck butts up against. When the chuck is spun on, it wedges pretty tight. This is probably where yours is locked onto. Never spin a chuck up to the step!

Randy

Randy

[skeettx]

watching this one
Mike

[abunaitoo]

Worked on it again today.
Tried the action wench, but just can't hold it firm enough. Head not attached to bed.
Decided to remove the chuck. I did mark it to put it back in the same place.
It made it so much easier to work with.
I made an angle flat head to remove the screws holding the front bearing in.
Hoping there was enough room for it to work.
It did and I got the whole shaft out.
Now I can hold the shaft in the press, put back the chuck, and hopefully remove the whole thing.
Bearing feels OK, but it doesn't look that great. I may replace it.
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[Idz]

Now that its in pieces you can try some thermal cycling by put the whole thing in the deep freeze. When its cold take it out and heat the faceplate and it might just break loose.

[15meter]

Found this after you had removed the chuck, I have a 1 1/8" piece of hex stock that I mount in the chuck than use an air impact wrench with a socket on the hex stock. Take my chuck of my 9" South Bend regularly to use a collet chuck. The collet chuck works way better to hold brass/small stuff.

It is radial impacts that I suspect are no harder on the bearings than a heavy interrupted cut is and the chuck is clamping the hex stock just the way it was designed to operate.

[abunaitoo]

I tied an impact gun. Didn't work.
That's how I take off the chuck on my other lathe.
This one is really stuck.
I'm going to cut two "V" blocks of wood to hold the shaft, mount it in the press, remount the chuck, use a pipe on the hex key, and hope it comes off.

[725]

Liberal use of ATF / Acetone mix has amazing results. Keep at it over time and add torque / heat & it will let go, I'm sure.

[MaryB]

PB Blaster really penetrates, I just had to separate 2 sliding steel tubes that rusted together on my satellite dish because I was remounting it out of the way. PB Blaster on the inner tube, stood it on end, 10 minutes later I was able to break it free.

[Discus420]

get it hot I mean red hot and the longest breaker bar you can find ... 4 feet at least

[RP]

I was reading over your post and see you have tried heat. Something I have found to work and work well on several items. I heat the problem and then rapid cool it dropping in water or dumping water on it. If its held in place by rust it will release if its just tight it may work cross threaded will it will not work for that. You do not have to get it red hot to do this just hot enough fast cooling it makes it lets call it tremble since I do not know the correct word. That is what breaks the rust loose. You can always getting it hotter and try again so I would not get it no hotter then I had to to avoid any warping.

[jmorris]

When your pressing, heating and cooling, maybe even beating, just remember it is a precision part. No reason to “fix” it if it’s not going to be as good as it is right now or before you started.

Not to mention, it looks like you goal of simply getting the chuck off was accomplished.

[abunaitoo]

Didn't go to the range today, so I worked on the stuck chuck.
Made some "V" blocks to hold the shaft.
Tired to hold it in the press, but the press won't hold pressure.
What next:veryconfu
Now I have to find out what's wrong with the press.
It's a big Nugier H40-14 press.
Anyone have any experience with these ????

[jmorris]

How about something simple, like a barrel vise?

If your press is one of the air over hydraulic H presses, there are a number of things that can be wrong with it. Press problems are almost alway seal related and when one goes, others are sure to follow. See if you can get a “kit” and change them all.

[abunaitoo]

I have a barrel vise, but the vise is not mounter on something solid.
I normally mount it in the press to hold it.
It's not air assisted. Just a simple hand pump.
I'm hoping that if I can just get the air out, it will work again.
Never gave me problems before. But haven't used it in a while.

[Jeff Michel]

Patience is all that's required. Keep spraying it with your favorite release agent and wait. I dismantled an Atlas 7b shaper a while back. The cross rails had grown together with the table. It took a little better than a year before it had enough time for the lubricant to work. I would "try" to break it free every couple days and lube it up and wander off to find something else to do and one day, after a couple taps, it moved and I had it off in a few minutes. Old lubricants/cutting oil act just like "Loctite" when they get a chance to set. You need to dissolve them and it takes time. Stay with it and you'll get it.

[abunaitoo]

Got a call today from someone who wants to get rid of a lathe.
Said it's a old Sheldon.
Going to look at it tomorrow.
Running out of room for all these things, but I just hate to see them go to the dump.

[vzerone]

The best penetrating oil that I've ever used is GIBBS.

[jmorris]

I have a barrel vise, but the vise is not mounter on something solid.

Have a vehicle with a 2” receiver? That, some 2” box tube and a welder and you have something that won’t move, until you want to move it.

[MaLar]

Heating and quenching may warp the precision parts of your machine. May end up machining the backplate off and making a new one. Or buying something like this and machining it to fit.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-1-1-2-x-8-TPI-Back-Plate/SB1388?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com

[abunaitoo]

Don't want to heat it up to much.
Don't want to damage the bearing or warp the backing plate.