Beginning caster with a few questions

[mrcvs]

I have the Lyman bullet casting book, and have a few questions before casting. It seems to me that a Burnell Hardness Number, or BHN, is desired. But then under some individual loads it might say a harder or softer bullet can be desirable. So, is there any problem sticking with 15 all around, and what device is best suited for measuring BHN?

I live in a little yuppie neighbourhood (not desirable, don't try this at home, boys & girls!), so, given that huge weight on my shoulders, how would you go about making ingots from wheel weights?

One last thing: Talks about degreasing molds, by it. Should anything be applied to the mold prior to pouring the lead within?

[NoZombies]

For handguns I prefer softer lead except in barn burning maximum loads. And hardness does matter sometimes, but fit is almost always more important. The bullet should be 2-3 thousandths larger than the groove diameter of the barrel for best results.

Smelting can be tricky in such a place. To start with, you might get some already processed lead from a known source and make sure the endeavor is something you're going to pursue before figuring out how to deal with the neighbors.

Once the mold is cleaned (I like dawn dishwashing soap and hot water with a soft bristle toothbrush) don't apply anything to the cavities. Mold sprue plate lube can be helpful on the alignment pins and under the sprue plate, but use it sparingly, you don't want any getting into the cavities as it will cause poor fill-out.

[CASTER OF LEAD]

What are your casting goals? I mean what gun(s) will you be casting for? Molds new? Used? New molds need some extra attention before using for the first time. Lee molds come with instructions for prep prior to use.
As for your smelting . I am assuming you live where it might be frowned upon to set up in your yard, or drive to do so. Is this accurate? I suggest reading the thread " From ingot to boolit" a lot of excellent information to help guide you on the start of this journey. BTW Welcome aboard. - CASTER

[mdi]

FWIW; I cast for many years before I got a hardness tester and to me BHN was of little use other than discussion on a forum. My bullets were sized to fit the gun first and foremost. My "base" alloy was wheel weights and while some was harder and some softer I had no problems with leading or accuracy in my 38/357, .44 Spec. and Mag. or 45 ACP. When I purchased lead I believed the vendor's description mainly because it wasn't very important to me (I bought a lot of lead from a Vendor Sponsor here) I have had zero problems with my cast bullets as far as hardness is concerned. After I received a hardness tester for Christmas I tested a lot of my alloy/stash of mystery metal and the average turned out to be approx. 12 BHN (with a Lee tool). This alloy worked well in all my handguns up to 265 cast RNFP med-heavy loads in my 44 Magnums...

My ingot "molds" are surplus (junk) muffin tins and small bread pans (3"x4"x8"). My muffin tin is a 12 cup stamped steel type and the bread pans are steel folded into shape...

[Kraschenbirn]

You don't mention what calibers you'll be casting for. For handguns...excepting full-house, high-velocity 'magnums'...15 Bhn is considerably harder than you should ever need. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook data for CF cartridges uses Lyman #2 Alloy as a standard and Lyman #2 does, typically, measure 14-16 Bhn. (Before you ask "why do they use #2 as a standard?", it's because that's what they've always done. I've got Lyman manuals going back into the 1950s with all the data based on Lyman #2.) For velocities under 1100 fps (without powder coat), properly sized for your throat/bore, anything in the 9-10 Bhn range should suffice. Rifle calibers/velocities, though, are a different breed of cat and, depending upon the condition of the bore, throat dimensions, and rate of twist, hardness/alloy need can vary considerably.

So far as smelting, I've been doing it indoors for years and I doubt if any of my neighbors are even aware. Of course, my workshop (attached to my garage) has an exhaust hood over it's steel-topped welding bench that, turned up to 'high', will all but suck the fillings out of your teeth. Seriously, there have been several discussions here of the ventilation requirements for smelting/casting and quite a few of our members have assembled adequate exhaust systems for their garages/workshops.

For cleaning new molds, I usually start by rinsing with acetone then, like NoZombies, washing thoroughly with Dawn dishwashing liquid and a soft bristle brush.

Bill

[country gent]

Not the best but a friend or family members place out in the country may be a place to smelt. Pain taking the big pot and scrap then loading all back up after it cools down. Lee has a hardness tester, Redding saeco makes one and the best ive read is cabine trees. There is a way to estimate hardness with artists pencils also.
Roto metals, buffalo arms and some others sell clean alloy in various hardness and alloies ready to use, May be a way to start and go if smelting is hard to do. One plus when starting out is your working with a known material taking one set of variables out of the start-up

[WFO2]

You could always say that you are making deep sea fishing weights for a future trip to the coast .

[mrcvs]

I almost want to be offensive and get bounced out of yuppieville...

I would be casting with some new and some used molds. .270, .30-06, .38-55, .40-65, .45-70, .32 S & W, .44-40, .32-40, .38-40, .44 Special, and .44 Russian would be the most likely rounds for which I would cast bullets.

[Rcmaveric]

I use the Lee Hardness tester. Gives me general idea of hardness of what I find around for recycling lead or range scraps. About 13-15bhn is what I use for almost everything from 9mm to .270 win. works great. Try reading Richard Lee's Modern Reloader explains all about BHN. Only reason I care about BHN is to make sure I am obturating at the pressures I am shooting and trying to get the softest bullet possible. Harder bullets merely mask the affects of poor fit. Properly fit the bullet and you will be surprised how hard you can push a mid hardness bullet. Start low and work up till the barrel leads or accuracy is horrible.

As far as smelting around your yuppies. Just do it. Its not illegal and perfectly safe. Just tell them you are recycling metal to save the earth and reduce mining impact on the environment as well as the financial kickback (saving money on bullets, they don't need to know that). Depending on where you get the lead from you can even say you are volunteering to clean up the environment. There is an indoor gun range next to my house being built and I am talking to them to try and clean their range for free if the let me keep the lead. Even berm mining can be worded to sound like your cleaning up the environment, don't want those endangered Gopher Tortoises eating a bullet and dying. Your neighbors don't need to know its lead or for shooting. I live in a large apartments complex. I smelt right next to my truck in the parking lot using the tail gate as a table for tools. Only time I get complaints is when I flux with sulfur. I stand next to it all times and prevent the neighborhood kids from getting within 25 feet. My aquaponics on the back porch gets all the complaints. Poeople are too nosy and suspicions thinking I am doing something illegal. You can see the let down in their faces when I tell them they cant smoke or confiscate my green peppers and jalapenos.

[runfiverun]

usually I just tell the neighbor I'm burning some junk off some metal so I can take it to the recycler,, otherwise they wont take it.
it's for the environment you know.

if your in a HOA buying clean alloy and keeping the garage door closed is probably your best bet.

[dragon813gt]

usually I just tell the neighbor I'm burning some junk off some metal so I can take it to the recycler,, otherwise they wont take it.
it's for the environment you know.


My neighbors refuse to clean up the dog **** from their three large dogs so any smell created from smelting wheel weights is a relief for the neighborhood.

[RogerDat]

I would go to the swapping and selling forum and purchase some COWW lead. Maybe ask if they can sell you 40# of COWW's and 20# of plain soft lead in a single box worth of flat rate shipping. As someone else said it eliminates a variable and smelting is its own process with its own knowledge and equipment requirements. Worthwhile but also a good item to skip so you can go directly to casting and focus on that.

I use brake cleaner spray, then follow up with the dish soap and tooth brush, rinse well and dry promptly.

Lot of people use 50% COWW and 50% plain lead for revolver and some auto loaders (45 ACP comes to mind) throw in between 1 and 2 percent tin (solder or pewter) for better melt flow, and more ductile strength and good chance it will work really well both in casting and in shooting. COWW's with 1 to 2 percent tin is sort of a go-to for rifle and magnum pistol without gas checks.

Buying the lead ingots from members here is almost as cheap as doing it yourself, especially if you count driving and propane to smelt into the mix. If you already have some WW's just set them aside for later, they won't spoil after all. I like Lyman #2 alloy, but often I like it as an ingredient to mix into plain lead or COWW's I only use it for .223 in an auto loader and a couple of full power rifle loads. Examples would be 8mm and 303 Brit. and even those get COWW's and tin unless I'm going to load full power rather than 200 yard plinking ammo.

Cast hot, cast fast, and watch the pile build up is an enjoyable place to start casting. Sorting WW's and smelting them while satisfying is much less fun.

[Wayne Smith]

1) Rotometals (top of the page) is a reliable source of known metal mixes = money
2) Don't worry about smelting on your property as long as you know the applicable fire and health laws. You might be surprised by who shows true curiosity.
3) At least to start, use known metals, it's easier to understand what is happening in your pot.

[LenH]

Not knowing what you are going to cast, my usual reply is, `FIT IS KING'. Everything else is secondary. BNH is relative to what you are shooting. In pistol non magnum loads I
have used 9 to 12 BNH lead with no problems.
For rifle I have an alloy that is pure lead mixed with Lyman #2 to make an alloy of 94-3-3 which is about 12.5 BNH, somewhere in that neighborhood, gas checked and lubed with
White Label Carnauba Blue, These are pushed at about 1800 FSP with no leading.

[Strtspdlx]

So far in my 2 years of experience I've found coww works good in handguns up to 10mm. I don't cast much for rifles aside from 45-70 which coww works well for. I choose coww because pure is very scarce for me. As for mold I clean with hot soapy water using dosh detergent. It takes a few pours before they cast well. And invest in a hot plate. For the cost of Maybe $30 it saves a lot of aggravation.

[mdi]

I think I'd suggest to a new caster to start with the 44s. Big easy to cast bullets will allow to "get the hang" of casting. And as in any new undertaking, K.I.S.S. When smelting the most odors fumes will come when fluxing and that only last a few minutes. Ask the fellers here for the least smoky, obnoxious flux (I just use sawdust and that smokes a lot, but my neighbors aren't aware or anything going on in my shop)...

[Handloader109]

Buy lead here, save the reclaiming for when you get a place to stink up. Almost no smell with just casting, I drop a pea sized piece of beeswax in when I add lead to the pot and use a mixture of range lead and other lead I've accumulated.

[waco]

"Staedtler" brand art pencils is what I use to determine my alloys BHN. It is cheap and very reliable.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?75455-Testing-hardness-with-pencils

[robg]

if my boolits weigh within 10% of the supposed weight the mold drops I'm ok

[10gaOkie]

One day I was smelting in my front yard on a picknic table. The city police came by to check me out. Someone must have called in on me. Anyway, I told them exactly what I was doing, making bullets. We struck up a nice conversation as they were interested in details of casting bullets. They left me after a happy visit. /Chris

[Cherokee]

You have received lots of good advise...so I'll just say welcome to casting.

[mrcvs]

I was planning on beginning with a larger calibre bullet such as .44 or .45. Definitely not .270. I planned on fluxing with sawdust...the product of my lathe. Really difficult to justify purchasing lead when I have at least 6 large buckets in the garage that contain wheel weights.

[lightman]

Well, first of all, Welcome to the Hobby! Or the madness!

I recommend not getting too hung up with BHN. Anything from about 10 to 12 will work ok on most handguns. 15 is ok but harder than you really need except maybe for rifle bullets. The correct bullet size is more important than hardness. I cast for years without a hardness tester and mostly just use it to help me guess at any mystery lead that I scrounge. The same goes for a thermometer, although both are nice to have.

For a beginning caster, nice new clean alloy from a foundry would make the learning curve easier. But, wheel weights or isotope lead will make perfectly good bullets.

Anything like Brake Cleaner, Carburetor Cleaner, Electrical Contact Cleaner and a tooth brush can be used to clean a steel mold. A solution of Dawn Dish Soap is a favorite for an aluminum mold. Read the sticky on mold lube before you cast.

Recommending a place to smelt is a tough one! Having to load and haul all of the required gear is going to add a good bit of time and work to your operation. Do you have a Friend or Relative that lives in a more suitable place? Or a hunting or fishing camp located in the rural? A dead end timber company road on your deer lease? A Family farm or ranch not too far away?

You will be facing a decision on what method to use for sizing and lubing your bullets. Spend some time browsing through the site about bullet lube and casting equipment. You can spend about as much or as little as you want on this. The same goes for a casting pot.

Good Luck and feel free to ask questions!

[headednorth]

OP, I'm new so not much to add regarding bhn, but if you belong to a club I would imagine they would.be ok with it as long as you're not bothering any of the other members.

[SkookumJeff]

I live in a little yuppie neighbourhood (not desirable, don't try this at home, boys & girls!), so, given that huge weight on my shoulders, how would you go about making ingots from wheel weights?


If it's that big of a deal, smelt after dark when everyone else is inside and the smoke will not be noticed. I did quite a bit of this last summer, it does stink. Assuming you're discreet, I doubt you'll do so much smelting that it becomes a problem where you live.

Skook

[Grmps]

Take your smelting gear to a park, set it in a BBQ area and smelt there
Generally, the faster you push a bullet the harder you need to make it
“When smelting the most odors fumes will come when fluxing and that only last a few minutes.”
Actually, I find smelting dirty lead COWW puts off some interesting fumes also.
If you flux with sawdust, it’s no worse than a BBQ. Just light it on fire when it starts to char.
What wakes your neighbors up is when you flux with sulfur or copper sulfide to get zinc out or add elastomeric qualities to your alloy.

[Wm Cook]

Just an add on to the mold cleaning process; I had a mold and used all of the above (multiple times) and still got wrinkles on one particular mold. I did a search on the subject here and came across the suggestion of using the above plus a final good scrubbing with boiling water, Comet and a tooth brush. I repeated that process twice and it erased the wrinkle problems for me. That's my go to cleaning process now. Good luck. Bill.

Ps. Don't use the boiling water, Comet and a tooth brush at the same time. Boil the mold, pick it out of the pan with a pliers, set it in the sink and scrub it with Comet and the toothbrush when it is cool enough to handle. Rinse with hot water and repeat the process.