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Don1357
11-18-2017, 02:49 PM
This may not be the best section and if so, please move as needed.

I picked a number of things form the state of a reloader. Among them a bunch of 30-06 bullets. I got seven boxes of 20 in plastic cases plus a plastic case with 50, for $8 per box. I figure the cost of the plastic case alone was at least $2 so that made it about .30 per bullet.

To trust or not to trust... Some have incomplete scribbles, some have none, and even those with scribbles I have no idea if somebody moved them around while sorting the stuff. I also don't know how how good this guy was with his reloading, and I would hate to blow up a gun I haven't even bought yet (looking for a Remington 7600).

The plan is to sort them, crack one open per lot, get the bullet and powder weight (the latter rather pointless considering that I don't know witch powder it is but I'll write it down anyways) and weight each bullet in the lot to make sure none are off. I also have a chrono, I can shoot a bullet on each lot to make sure it ain't trying to break any speed records.

There are some nice silvertips, soft points, and fully jacketed bullets here. I figure most of the heavy soft points I'll reload for hunting and plink with the rest. I'm trying to avoid having to disassemble 190 bullets.

runfiverun
11-18-2017, 03:10 PM
you know what is the prudent thing to do.

HangFireW8
11-18-2017, 03:14 PM
Sounds like unknown cartridges not unknown bullets. Weigh the bullets after you have pulled them all; then they won't be unknown.

-HF

JonB_in_Glencoe
11-18-2017, 03:27 PM
"incomplete scribbles"
On the outside chance that I'd consider shooting someone else's reloads, incomplete scribbles would surely change my mind.

Don1357
11-18-2017, 03:46 PM
The most prudent thing would be to stop with the reloading nonsense and leave it to the pros and their highly calibrated methods. none of us are doing that so the real question is one of risk management.

For instance, the FMJ boxes are all +/- a gram, it looks like they are commercial loads so I'm thinking to chrono and plink with them. A box of the heavy silvertips seems to be all over the place so I'll reload those with a known powder. They are 200 grains, ought to do wonders on Moose. The box of 50 with the minuscule soft tips seems to be a bit all over, so I'll chrono a light one and see what it is trying to do. If the lightest one is trying to do something ugly, it follows that i shouldn't shoot the heavier one on that lot.

lightman
11-18-2017, 05:59 PM
This is kind of a personal thing, but I don't shoot unknown reloads. I recently, like last month, pulled several hundred bullets from someone else reloads. You can weigh the risk and take your chances. I just don't.

Dusty Bannister
11-18-2017, 06:31 PM
The most prudent thing would be to stop with the reloading nonsense and leave it to the pros and their highly calibrated methods. none of us are doing that so the real question is one of risk management.

For instance, the FMJ boxes are all +/- a gram, it looks like they are commercial loads so I'm thinking to chrono and plink with them. A box of the heavy silvertips seems to be all over the place so I'll reload those with a known powder. They are 200 grains, ought to do wonders on Moose. The box of 50 with the minuscule soft tips seems to be a bit all over, so I'll chrono a light one and see what it is trying to do. If the lightest one is trying to do something ugly, it follows that i shouldn't shoot the heavier one on that lot.

Not risk management, but assumption of risk. You know there is risk, but you do not know how much risk there is. Lightman states it in a kind manner.

Don1357
11-18-2017, 08:10 PM
Risk management implies the assumption of risks, else there is no point in managing it.

I get where folks are coming from and it is appreciated. I'm still pondering if there is a methodology that can be applied to this process. The laws of physics did not stop applying because the cartridge was loaded. There is a given bullet, with a given unkown powder charge, over a sampling of cartridges. A flow chart can be made to safely test what's what. I can weight a given lot, Crack open the lightest and the heaviest. Don't know which powder but does the load in grains exceed any known powder from the loading table? Yes, suspect; bring the charge down. No, proceed. Put the bullet back in, shoot and chrono it. Is it trying to fly at a stupid speed? Yes, not good. No, it should be fine.

For starters later today I'll take apart the 200 grain silver tips that I'll reload for hunting. Measuring the powder of each bullet will give me an indication of how much a margin of error he was producing.

Rather than a blanket 'that's stupid' I would be helpful to challenge any of the assumptions I may have wrong, or any other parameter I could test for.

baogongmeo
11-18-2017, 08:54 PM
Have you measured bullet diameter to be certain that they are .308 and not .311 or something else? How about case over-all length? Lots more than just powder charge will influence pressure. Will they even chamber in your rifle?
Myself, unless I was absolutely certain that I had positively identified the powder ( and then I would pull and reduce them all to the starting load) I would pull and throw away the powder and load back with a known powder. Better safe than sorry.
Dump the powder!

runfiverun
11-18-2017, 09:06 PM
well the best you can hope for is they didn't screw up the powder type or read the powder amount wrong.
I made a batch of 25-06 and transposed the last 2 numbers and ended up re-thinking things when it nagged at me.
I got in a nice afternoon of shooting pulled bullets.

if you had something/anything to go by, and the weights matched,,, and the loaded rounds fell within a good bell curve around the pulled to check rounds.. then maybe you got something to work from.
what I'm seeing is I dunno, and more maybe?

HangFireW8
11-19-2017, 12:49 AM
To me there's another reason why I wouldn't bother shooting those loads. Are they reproducible? If I got a fantastic group, could I reproduce it?
My range time is highly limited.
My reloading time is somewhat limited.
My gun's lifetime, measured in shots, is limited. One of the reasons I am shooting more cast now. I get more bullets per barrel lifetime.

When I "burn up" somebody else's reloads, what does that accomplish? Making brass to reload that is already lifetime-limited by an unknown factor? Or am I just shortening the life of my barrel? Maybe a non-issue for a 45ACP. A big issue for a magnum rifle. Somewhere in between for everything else.

I have to wonder, if you have all the risk managed, why did you bother to even ask here? Risk management means managing all the manageable variables. Not just powder weight. Wrong powder? More powder and a lighter bullet? Less powder and a heavier bullet?

But hey it's your gun, and your face.

Bzcraig
11-19-2017, 01:38 AM
You asked the question, "to trust or not to trust?" People have given you their opinion and reason(s) for that opinion yet it seems you are discounting/arguing and have already made up your mind.

Traffer
11-19-2017, 01:52 AM
Don't be foolish...pull the darn things. There is nothing to gain, really. Mystery bullets? Say nope to dope.

fatelk
11-19-2017, 02:23 AM
Personally I'm one to normally experiment and tinker with stuff like that if I can ascertain with a level of certainty exactly what the components are, but I've also gotten to where I just won't take chances with someone else's reloads, especially some random estate ammo.

Odds are they would fire fine, but personally the risk would be too much for me. I would pull them all down for components if it were me.

I did fire some old 12 gauge reloads a couple years ago. They were some that were in my grandfather's stuff when he passed away. He never reloaded so who knows where he got them. I thought it would be ok and took the risk. That was a mistake! I was lucky and only had to replace the extractor on my old Remington when one blew out at the rim. I just won't take the chance on random reloads anymore, never again. I think that's why everyone is telling you pull them.

big bore 99
11-19-2017, 02:37 AM
I'd pull 'em

Wayne Smith
11-19-2017, 08:45 AM
Did he, by any chance, have a well worn copy of Phil Sharpe's books? Simply pointing out another unkown in the process. Phil's starting loads are often overloads.

ascast
11-19-2017, 09:00 AM
Phil Sharpe ? wow ! He's the guy that promoted the "303 Savage is not a .308 inch bullet" concept. But, he has data for the 11mm Gras. Go figure?


however, always enjoy reading/ re-reading over his reloading equipment reviews.

Steelshooter
11-19-2017, 09:49 AM
Another candidate for a Darwin award. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

texassako
11-19-2017, 10:42 AM
Pull them all. Pulling one doesn't tell you if all the charge weights are consistent. +/- 1 gram is 15 grains, could be a heavier case or could be a heavier charge of powder.

WHITETAIL
11-19-2017, 11:07 AM
+1 on pulling them.
And toss the powder.:holysheep

JMtoolman
11-19-2017, 11:10 AM
I just had the same type of situation this last week. I had purchased a hundred rounds of empty belted brass from a fellow member. The brass looked great! Then when I started priming after sizing and trimming, I found extruded marks on the case heads. They were half round marks from a ejector hole in the bolt head. The primers almost fell in the pockets! Several ones I could seat primers with a fingertip! The seller has promised to return the sale price, and all went into the scrap bucket after having the case necks smashed with a hammer. I think these were proof loads that someone got ahold of, for they looked like they had to be around 80,000 psi to flow like that. It was a shame for the brass is an old caliber one and it is hard to find. The toolman.

D Crockett
11-19-2017, 12:05 PM
+ 1 pull them it not hard to reload them again like people have said it just not worth the chance of messing up a good gun or getting hurt if the gun blows up besides the old powder is good for your yard makes the grass green D Crockett

bedbugbilly
11-19-2017, 12:31 PM
Kind of sounds to me like you already know what you are going to do with them so why even ask?

Everyone has "free will" . . . if you choose to shoot them then it's on you if there is a problem with them . . . . that's a decision that nobody else can make for you. If you choose to risk your firearm and your safety . . . then there's a fifty fifty chance that all will be well . . . . and a fifty fifty chance that the guy who reloaded them didn't know what he was doing.

Personally, I'd never shoot anyone else's reloads. I'd pull 'em, use the powder for fertilizer and reuse the primed brass and bullets . . . and for the components you end up with, you still did o.k. on your "buy". But then, I guess I'm a wee bit cautious as I picked up too many individuals when I worked ambulance and fire rescue who chose to "fly by the seat of their pants". If you are a reloader, then you know what the prudent thing is to do. Just sayin'

mdi
11-19-2017, 12:44 PM
Lot of "discussion" on terminology used to describe unknown ammo, but any sane shooter would pull the bullets, toss the powder and reuse the components. Just like the majority of the above posts. I might play with measuring powder charges, measuring cases, etc. but I have 30+ years of reloading experience and understand just what OOPS! can occur. I will never put an unknown cartridge in any of my guns (with risk managed, assumed or guessed at)...

blackthorn
11-19-2017, 12:45 PM
I am in the camp that says pull them. At our last gun show I bought 50, handloaded 300 Weatherby cartridges. I know the guy who loaded them and he is an experienced loader and careful. I do not shoot other peoples' reloads. I pulled one and weighed the charge---a full five grains over book max for that bullet with that powder! As I pulled the rest I weighed several and all were consistently exactly five grains over max. I did re-use the components, including the powder, but I reduced the charge to a safe level. Be safe.

HangFireW8
11-19-2017, 09:24 PM
Did he, by any chance, have a well worn copy of Phil Sharpe's books? Simply pointing out another unkown in the process. Phil's starting loads are often overloads.
No, not often. The early editions had loads from whatever sources he could get them. Some were too stiff.
Later on, when he had access to factory labs, and even later, when he owned and ran his own pressure testing laboratory, he annoyed Elmer Keith multiple times by pointing out the actual pressures of Elmer's loads.

swheeler
11-19-2017, 10:11 PM
Pull them all, 190 reloads or one eye ball, your choice.

45-70 Chevroner
11-20-2017, 12:57 PM
This guy is a fairly new member and I think we may have just ran him off. If your not willing to listen to good advice, it might be prudent to not ask questions. My vote was with the obvious concensus.

Steelshooter
11-20-2017, 01:12 PM
This guy is a fairly new member and I think we may have just ran him off. If your not willing to listen to good advice, it might be prudent to not ask questions. My vote was with the obvious concensus.

I kind of hope that is the case and not that he had issue shooting the reloads.

mrbill2
11-20-2017, 09:15 PM
208148

Hardcast416taylor
11-20-2017, 09:22 PM
Do you have a good long handled shovel and a very remote place to conduct the `funeral` at?Robert

rintinglen
11-20-2017, 11:57 PM
If you knew the man who did the reloading, knew him to be a painstaking, careful reloader, who kept careful notes, I'd be fine with shooting his reloads. When I was first learning, I shot a bunch of reloads done by my mentor Bill Williams. When he passed away, I'd have shot any of his stuff I could lay my hands on. He was an old-time, diligent reloader who took great care that each cartridge he made was as perfect as he could make them.

However, I just finished tearing down the last of 256 or so 32 HR reloads that I bought, because I do not know the skill or attention to detail with which they were assembled. Your gun, your health, your eyes, your call.

fatelk
11-21-2017, 12:43 AM
If I happened upon a batch of my own reloads from 30 years ago, I'm not sure I'd care to shoot them.

Actually I did just dig out an ammo can full of some 12 gauge shells I loaded maybe 25 years ago, heavy buckshot loads with Blue Dot and my own cast 00 buckshot. I don't shoot buckshot so I'm tempted to pull them all apart for the lead and Blue Dot.

john.k
11-21-2017, 01:42 AM
I gave away two packets of my old 6.5 Dutch loads,with the instruction to pull and use the cases and bullets.Needless to say,he fired them.He never said anything,but told everyone else that would listen that half were loaded with blackpowder.Now,out here the Hornady 160gn RNs are worth 0.50c each,so i gave him $20 worth of bullets,without the cases.Next time,I ll save the bullets ,scrap the cases,no more favors.

Andy
11-21-2017, 04:35 PM
Don I think there is no way to be 100% sure those cartridges are safe to fire, no matter how careful you are about it. I believe you're suggesting weighing the loaded cartridges and that's a smart thought, but case weights can differ a good amount and you never know if one is containing a powder type that it shouldn't or some other problematic trait (worn case about to separate) that wouldn't be obvious by weight.

Yes you can disassemble some and if those are fine and you correctly guess which powder is in there you can make an educated guess that the remainder might be safe to fire. But there are still things you could miss and you're playing a high risk for a low reward which isn't worth it in my opinion. Maybe that guy you got them from got interrupted while loading and came back drunk later that night and loaded the last five with the correct weight of bullseye and you've got a bomb waiting in there. Not worth losing a rifle or a hand or an eye.

If you pull the bullets and toss the powder, all you are probably out is 10-20 cents per round when you reassemble them with your own, known powder. That to me is a small price to pay to be sure you aren't going to blow up your rifle or hurt yourself or others around you on the shooting line.

I would use this as an excuse to get a press-mounted bullet puller with a 30 cal collet, no mess or frustration and you'll be done with 200 rounds in less than a half hour with no damage to your bullets.

David2011
11-21-2017, 08:49 PM
+1 for the collet puller! Get one, pull the bullets and live happily ever after.