Powder funnel suction ?

[second chance]

I've just started trying to load some .45 acp on my Dillon 550B and it acts like there's a major suction between the powder funnel and the case. The cases are brand new Star line, though they've been sitting in a box for 20 years. I haven't loaded in at least that long, but I know this is not normal. I'm having to push the handle extremely hard and when it releases it jolts the press so much the powder measure top falls off and powder flies. Except for activating the powder measure, funneling the powder, and flaring the case, is the diameter of the funnel critical? I polished it when I first cleaned the dies and set up the machine, but I'm wondering if I can take down the diameter a bit, or cut a vent along the side? I know I used this press and those same dies before. In fact all I did to set it up this time was adjust the powder amount and increase the flare for the PC lead bullets. Thanks for any ideas on what is going on, Terry

[huntnman]

Sounds like your powder through expander is set too deep, or is damaged and sticking in the case.

[starreloader]

You need to lightly lube either the expander or the inside of the case mouth on those new unfired cases.. You will not have to lube each case, probably every 10 case will get you working.. What is happening with you is common when there is no lube on dry metal to dry metal.. This does not happen with fired cases, the fired residue works as the lube.

[BK7saum]

Starline has been about the worst brand of new brass to stick to the expander for me. As said, lightly lube and no more problems. I dump new starline in a zip lock bag and give it a couple of short blasts of hornady one-shot lube. No more sticky brass and sizes easier in carbide, too.

[dragon813gt]

New Starline brass galls horribly. Unfortunately it's to clean. I tumble it in NuFinish treated walnut first. And just to be sure I will give it a few shots Dillon case lube in a baggie as well. After the first firing there are no more issues.

[acoop101]

Try tumbling your brass, the case polish and media dust create a little bit of lube that will help keep the case from sticking.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

[runfiverun]

yep too clean.
smear a little boolit lube on the funnel every 4-5 rounds.

[6bg6ga]

Sounds like your powder through expander is set too deep, or is damaged and sticking in the case.

Second this

[second chance]

I agree that the funnel part seems much longer than needed, in fact without a case in that station, it bottoms out and starts to move the powder drop about a 1/4 inch. Not enough to drop powder, but i wouldn't think it should contact the shell plate at all. The flare is 0.38 from the end of the funnel. I had to adjust more flare into the die to keep the case mouth from shaving lead from the bullet, but the sticking issue didn't change. It's flaring just enough to seat the bullet now. I inspected and polished the tip of the powder funnel, it isn't damaged. Maybe it is as simple as lube, that is something I will try. I can't seem to get pictures uploaded. Thank all for your help, Terry

[Stonecrusher]

yep too clean.
smear a little boolit lube on the funnel every 4-5 rounds.

Great tip from RFR! I picked this up from him a while back and is so simple that I never thought of it. You have a little lube on your fingers from handling the bullets, so just twirl the outside of the powder funnel between your finger tips every few cycles. The funnel sticks out the bottom of the die where you can get to it. Makes it go from sticking to effortless. Of course, a little spray lube works too, just a little messier.

[second chance]

Guys back when I reloaded a lot, I only loaded jacketed bullets, and now I'm trying the HyTek coated lead ones, so lube is not something I know much about as far as reloading. Back then, I loaded thousands of .44 mag, .45acp, .357mag, and .380acp, and never had a problem with the expanded die sticking. I don't want to open a can of worms, but is that recipe for lanolin and alcohol a viable option, or should I be looking for something else?

[mdi]

Extra clean, virgin brass is pretty "grabby". As mentioned above, lube the case mouths...

I use Mink oil Boot Dressing Cream for my case lube. It works, is easy to find and is easy to remove. The lanolin/alcohol mixture works, if you use the 90% alcohol. The alcohol acts like a carrier and evaporates quickly leaving a thin film of lanolin acting as a lubricant...

[second chance]

mdi, I've read different recipes for the lanolin most calling for 99% alcohol,some use acetone, but I've never seen anyone mention denatured alcohol. Do you have an idea why not?

[second chance]

I do have two bottles of Aqualube 5000 that mixes with Acetone or Denatured alcohol. It came from the company that makes the HyTek coatings, for use when sizing the coated bullets. I bought these bullets coated and sized, so I haven't even added the alcohol to it yet. Any reason to think it might not lube the cases as well?

[dragon813gt]

I don't want to open a can of worms, but is that recipe for lanolin and alcohol a viable option, or should I be looking for something else?

That's exactly what Dillon Case Lube is. For sizing bottleneck cases I use mink oil. But pistol brass is quick and easy to lube w/ the lanolin/alcohol mixture. A few squirts into a ziplock bag is all that's needed to lube a couple hundred cases.

[second chance]

Thank you all, I'll give lube a try. I sure don't remember having to man handle this press this hard back in the day, but then, I was twenty or so years younger, :grin:

[country gent]

If you can find some motor mica powder put a little in a pop bottle cap and just dip a case mouth in it every few rounds. There are neck lube kits that use this with 3 brushes in the base to keep a even coat. I found a cotton bore mop works better than the brushes. This is a dry coating and powder dosnt stick to it. It dosnt deaden powder either.

[second chance]

If you can find some motor mica powder put a little in a pop bottle cap and just dip a case mouth in it every few rounds. There are neck lube kits that use this with 3 brushes in the base to keep a even coat. I found a cotton bore mop works better than the brushes. This is a dry coating and powder dosnt stick to it. It dosnt deaden powder either.

That would help with sizing, expanding, seating, and the taper crimp, although I've located "most" of my issue as the powder funnel/expanding die. I like the dry lube idea, and even though the spray on variety dries, it covers all of the case, not just where needed. Thank you all, Terry

[second chance]

I wish I had named this post better, because thinking back, this thing was locking onto the cases when I was making "dummy" rounds without the primer. So "suction", has nothing to do with it! :wink: But it got me some fine answers, so I'm in the right company!

[6bg6ga]

I wish I had named this post better, because thinking back, this thing was locking onto the cases when I was making "dummy" rounds without the primer. So "suction", has nothing to do with it! :wink: But it got me some fine answers, so I'm in the right company!

We can't help you if you won't listen. There is NO suction problem. The problem is that the powder funnel is flaring the case too much. Been there done that accidentally. No lube needed either. Simply reduce the flare and the sticking problem will go away. Starline cases aren't any worse than any other case either. They will all stick when flared too much.

[dragon813gt]

imply reduce the flare and the sticking problem will go away. Starline cases aren't any worse than any other case either. They will all stick when flared too much.

Starline is absolutely worse than other brands when comparing brand new cases. Starline cleans their brass better than anyone else. Flaring to much will have some effect but it's the brass itself that's the problem. I'm betting the problem goes away by simply lubing the cases w/ no die adjustment. Been down this road to many times to count w/ new Starline brass. Unlike most I buy new brass when possible.

[6bg6ga]

Starline is absolutely worse than other brands when comparing brand new cases. Starline cleans their brass better than anyone else. Flaring to much will have some effect but it's the brass itself that's the problem. I'm betting the problem goes away by simply lubing the cases w/ no die adjustment. Been down this road to many times to count w/ new Starline brass. Unlike most I buy new brass when possible.

Just got done loading 1K 45acp Starline brass. No problems on my Dillon 650. Hmmmm maybe I got some dirty brass:veryconfu

Did 500 45LC Starline brass again no problems. Finished the 45LC's and setup for 44magnums and again 500 Starline brass.

Absolutely no problems with Starline brass.

[second chance]

We can't help you if you won't listen. There is NO suction problem. The problem is that the powder funnel is flaring the case too much. Been there done that accidentally. No lube needed either. Simply reduce the flare and the sticking problem will go away. Starline cases aren't any worse than any other case either. They will all stick when flared too much.

Wow! Thank you! Even quoted my post where I poked fun at myself for mentioning "suction" in the title! Oh well, I'll try lube!

[mdi]

Yep, some folks just read different from others and some will react to what they think you said...:roll:

Both isopropyl alcohol and denatured alcohol have additives to make the alcohol undrinkable, slightly different additives. Either will work for this lube mix. In a pharmacy you are likely to find isopropyl alcohol and in a hardware store you will prolly find denatured alcohol...

[second chance]

Thanks mdi. I have denatured alcohol, but I'd need to go buy isopropyl. I tend to agree that that's the problem. I'm kicking myself for sounding stupid with the "suction" thing, but I had inspected the funnel/expanding die under a 5 power loop, no gouges or deep scratches and hardly any surface rust. It sat inside the powder die untouched for all those years, so I polished it to almost mirror shine on the expander section with platinum polish and it still locked on to the cases like crazy. The flare it produces is bare minimum, just enough to allow the powder coated .452 diameter bullets to start. I'll certainly be more careful about questions in the future though, if nothing else, we accomplished that much. Thanks again, Terry

[runfiverun]

spray the case lube on a sponge or pad or piece of towel and give the flair part a quick wipe.
you don't need to lube the whole case.

i don't have this issue on my 650 either, with some cases, and with others i do.

the only other thing i have found to help is to spray the flair part with some moly and let it dry.
you have to re-apply the spray from time to time.

[mdi]

Thanks mdi. I have denatured alcohol, but I'd need to go buy isopropyl. I tend to agree that that's the problem. I'm kicking myself for sounding stupid with the "suction" thing, but I had inspected the funnel/expanding die under a 5 power loop, no gouges or deep scratches and hardly any surface rust. It sat inside the powder die untouched for all those years, so I polished it to almost mirror shine on the expander section with platinum polish and it still locked on to the cases like crazy. The flare it produces is bare minimum, just enough to allow the powder coated .452 diameter bullets to start. I'll certainly be more careful about questions in the future though, if nothing else, we accomplished that much. Thanks again, Terry
I'd say keep on posting as you are doing now. The "English/Vocabulary Nazis" are very rare here and if there is a need for correction, the vast majority will do so in a gentlemanly manner...

[second chance]

mdi, I listened to the voices of reason, and put a little lube(grease) inside and out of a small primer case that I will never use, and I can not tell you, how much difference it made. I had reinforced my bench, because there was more movement than I liked, but the ease of cycling this lowly 550B, proved that unnecessary. I truly am shocked, but all the "suction" disappeared! I want to thank all those who have the patience to help out. I have loaded thousands of rounds also, but it was yesteryear. I love this forum, and hope I can return the favor by offering my experience. Thanks everybody, we can put this one to bed, Terry

[Walter Laich]

mdi, I've read different recipes for the lanolin most calling for 99% alcohol,some use acetone, but I've never seen anyone mention denatured alcohol. Do you have an idea why not?

it will work but can be a fire hazard
the 70% and 90% will also work but it will take longer for the water in it to evaporate. With 99% alcohol the evaporation rate is quick and in no time the brass is ready to go

even with the carbide dies Dillon has I still will dump my brass in a plastic tub, give it about 6-8 hits with homemade lanolin/99% alcohol and then mix them up with my hands. this way all of them get a good coating and some always ends up inside the mouths and help out with the funnel

[fredj338]

It is not suction but what my machinist buddy calls back taper. Even a tiny 0.0005" back taper makes the case stick. Shiny clean brass only makes it worse. You can try case lubes, polish it mirror bright, it helps, but regrinding the taper is where it is at.