Winchester Model 70 in .375 H&H?

[Trinidad Bill]

I recently started scratching my itch for a Winchester Model 70. This all started after reading about Carlos Hathcock in “Marine Sniper”. He just happened to be doing his thing with a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06 while I was in Vietnam in 68 & 69. It only took me 45+ years to read about it!

I recently purchased a very nice 1939 Winchester Model 70 in .30-06. I am thrilled with this piece of firearms history as it is a real shooter and it scratch the Hathcock itch.

Fortunately, this made me more interested in the Winchester Model 70 and its entire history. I am a little late in the game as I am sure many of you out there know a lot more than I do. But I continue to devour as much information as I can about this fantastic “Rifleman’s Rifle”. I would love to get a copy of Roger Rules book, I am just having a hard time swallowing $100 for a paperback!

Anyhow, here I am with an itch to get another Winchester Model 70. This time I am in the Safari time frame and I am looking for a .375 H&H!
Finding a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .375 H&H may be a bit difficult and pricey, but I am looking.

However, I am intrigued by the current or Post-1993 era Winchester Model 70s manufactured under the FN umbrella. I have read some good articles about the accuracy and quality, especially around the Alaskan and Safari Express in .375 H&H.

To all those Winchester Model 70 aficionados out there, who know a great deal more than I, what is your opinions on the Post-1993 era Winchester Model 70s? And, how does the Alaskan stack up against the Safari Express in .375 H&H? It may be far more practical to purchase a new Alaskan or Safari Express in .375 H&H.

Of course any discussion around the pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .375 H&H is welcome and encouraged.

[Randy C]

I've been on a model 70 quest my self I have a friend that has a few that are new in the box he bought them many years ago as a investment, there locked in his safe and the batteries are dead on the digital lock. he's talking about selling them now, I believe he has a 375 and some 338s I will try and call him tomorrow, we use to work together he moved out of state to get closer to his kids.
I will pm you if he has something.
I want a 6x45 right now in a model 70 its a 6mm in a 223 case I have Corbin dies in 6mm.

[Larry Gibson]

About 20 years back give or take I bought a new M70 Classic Stainless three six bits. I really didn't like the synthetic stock but really liked every thing else about the rifle. It is a CRF action btw. I found some factory "seconds" in Numrich's so I got one. The defect making it a second was part of the sock around the recoil lug in the barrel channel had chip out. Didn't bother me as I was bedding the action with pillars and Brownell's Steel Bed anyway. The rifle has been a complete joy ever since. I originally had a straight 2 1/2X Weaver on it but picked up a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5x5 and put it on the rifle. I have cast loads with RBs, the Lyman 375248 for 1150 fps loads and the Lyman 375249 for medium and full house loads. I also have pushed a couple other 290 gr cast bullets to 2500 fps.

My M70 also shoots jacketed very well. In the photo I shot three shots of several different jacketed loads I use and as you can see they all grouped well and pretty close to zero. The rifle is zeroed for the Speer 285 gr Grand Slam load. I also have a few Woodleigh 350 gr bullets which I load to 2450 fps. They hit in the bottom half of the X/10 ring with that zero.

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I also Have a Winchester M70 CRF 30-06 from the same time frame. It also is an excellent rifle.

[Outpost75]

Several friends and I have hunted all over the world with pre-64 Winchester Model 70 .375 H&H. If you are a serious big game hunter you neexd no other rifle. In lower 48 load 235-grain Speer Hot-Cor to full velocity and trajectory matches.30-'06 but kills everything.

For Eastern woods deer hunting load #375449 cast of wheelweights, sized to fit throat, no GC neeced, 13 grainsof Bullseye matches .38-55 blackpowder load and you can eat up to the bullet hole.

[Trinidad Bill]

Larry...

I had never heard the term "three six bits". I had to think about it a bit (no pun intended). I guess you need to have some gray in your beard to know what two bits, four bits, and six bits meant, and... it is not computer related... but wait, it is! If there are 8 bits in a Byte, then 6 bits is .75 Bytes. Sorry, it is the engineer in me.

.375 = three six bits

[Trinidad Bill]

Several friends and I have hunted all over the world with pre-64 Winchester Model 70 .375 H&H. If you are a serious big game hunter you neexd no other rifle. In lower 48 load 235-grain Speer Hot-Cor to full velocity and trajectory matches.30-'06 but kills everything.

For Eastern woods deer hunting load #375449 cast of wheelweights, sized to fit throat, no GC neeced, 13 grainsof Bullseye matches .38-55 blackpowder load and you can eat up to the bullet hole.

Outpost... I used that 375449 a couple of years ago to kill an elk with my Marlin Cowboy in 38-55. IIRC I used 26-28gr of 3031 and it ran around 1800fps gas checked. That is a great cast bullet and did the job nicely.

I sure would be fond of a pre-64 Model 70 in .375 H&H. My problem is once I hit the $1500 level, which is where a pre-64 Model 70 in .375 H&H starts, I am thinking about a new Safari Express!

[Char-Gar]

Spured on by some of Paul Mathews writings, in 1962 I bought a Model 70 in 375 H&H from an estate. I came with an Bushnell 2.5X scope with the old Command Post reticule. Included with the rifle and scope was a Lyman single cavity 375449.

The rifle showtwell with both factory and jacketed handloads, but was far more power than anything I needed in Texas. I did kill several Texas deer (Mule and Whitetail)with the cast bullet under a dose of 4895, that was recommenced by Keith. It has recoil about like a 30-06 and shot flat enough to take deer at well over 200 yards in West Texas.

I have often regretted letting that rifle go down river.

[Outpost75]

Outpost... I used that 375449 a couple of years ago to kill an elk with my Marlin Cowboy in 38-55. IIRC I used 26-28gr of 3031 and it ran around 1800fps gas checked. That is a great cast bullet and did the job nicely.

I sure would be fond of a pre-64 Model 70 in .375 H&H. My problem is once I hit the $1500 level, which is where a pre-64 Model 70 in .375 H&H starts, I am thinking about a new Safari Express!

I would look also for one of the Interarms Whitworths built on the Yugo Mauser action. They need to have the stock properly bedded to prevent them splitting, but if you find a used one cracked through the wrist, as many are, you can use that to haggle down the price. Then inject the cracks with Brownell Acraglas and you are good to go!

[junkbug]

I really like the CZ 550 rifle because the scope bases are milled into the receiver. They are somewhat heavy. But not super expensive.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/715046094

[Trinidad Bill]

I hear you guys on the other rifles but... once you have been seduced by the Winchester Model 70 and its history there are no other rifles! Its like finding the right woman, guitar, or whatever! Once you have it, you want no other. I looked at the CZ, Browning A-bolts, Ruger, etc.

I have to have the real deal, the real mojo, the Winchester Model 70, .375 H&H, three six bits!

[Randy C]

I called my friend Galen he said he has a Model 70 in 375 H&H a 338 and a 300win mag. He got them from a family member that was close to 70 this was over 30 years ago. They are like new real nice guns, but he has to get in the safe to tell me more about them, He is getting close to 70yrs old and wont shoot them any more, he cant remember much about them. I will send you a pm on this matter when the time is right you can call him.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Kinda of a shame you are so far away from me. I have a 1953 vintage (by serial number checking) with a 3X old Weaver on it I`ve been mulling over about selling. I acquired it from the heirs of the owner that had it in Ak as a `crew` gun as he worked for the highway dept. before retiring and moving down here. They had an informal rule that a rifle of .338 Mag. cal. or larger accompany a work crew. The claim is this rifle had taken about every sort of critter that lived in lower Ak.Robert

[Trinidad Bill]

I called my friend Galen he said he has a Model 70 in 375 H&H a 338 and a 300win mag. He got them from a family member that was close to 70 this was over 30 years ago. They are like new real nice guns, but he has to get in the safe to tell me more about them, He is getting close to 70yrs old and wont shoot them any more, he cant remember much about them. I will send you a pm on this matter when the time is right you can call him.

Say what? Darn, I am going to be 70 this year and I don't have a problem shooting my Model 70 in 30-06, did it this morning. I hope I don't have to stop once I get to 70.

Now I have never shot the .375 H&H but I am looking forward to it. It can't be worse that my Thompson .54 cal muzzle stuffer with 110gr of black powder and a crescent brass buttstock!

[Randy C]

Galen has slowed down in the last few years we worked in the oilfield together for many years.

[crash87]

When Winchester went post 93, I believe the 1st CRF rifle in the line up, after the super grade was the Super Express. I owned one of those for a while. I felt it was muzzle heavy, and, overly heavy for that cartridge, the front sight was canted slightly, and I didn't like the stock design. I sold it and bought a CZ in 416 Rigby. I always had that itch for another 375, and when they brought out the Alaskan, originally, a shot show special, I was able to get one of those. The next year it was a regular production item. Along with the 30/06, 300, and 338 win mag. I like it a lot more, the weight is right for such a caliber, not that I'm particular on that, it just seems to me a 375 is always considered in the same vein as the 416-458 class rifles and I put it more in the 300-338 class of rifle, in that, weight negates recoil and, in my opinion,the 375 shouldn't be and doesn't recoil like the heavier class rifles.
I already own a 300 Win mag in a pre FN Super Grade, and a 338 in a Ruger, purchased in and around 2002-3, the last catalog year with issue iron sights.
I like this Alaskan alot, and if that rifle would have been out when I was looking for a 338, I would have that in an Alaskan too.
I'll stay with the Super Grade however.
If you can, handle each one and see whats right for you. They are different in there handling, feel, etc.
But either way you cant go wrong, awesome production rifles anyway you look at it and, yes, a wonderfully long history.
Crash87

[Trinidad Bill]

Galen has slowed down in the last few years we worked in the oilfield together for many years.

Sorry, I did not mean to sound like a jerk. I have a lot of respect for the oil and gas guys and the work they do. We have a lot gas field activity here.

[Trinidad Bill]

When Winchester went post 93, I believe the 1st CRF rifle in the line up, after the super grade was the Super Express. I owned one of those for a while. I felt it was muzzle heavy, and, overly heavy for that cartridge, the front sight was canted slightly, and I didn't like the stock design. I sold it and bought a CZ in 416 Rigby. I always had that itch for another 375, and when they brought out the Alaskan, originally, a shot show special, I was able to get one of those. The next year it was a regular production item. Along with the 30/06, 300, and 338 win mag. I like it a lot more, the weight is right for such a caliber, not that I'm particular on that, it just seems to me a 375 is always considered in the same vein as the 416-458 class rifles and I put it more in the 300-338 class of rifle, in that, weight negates recoil and, in my opinion,the 375 shouldn't be and doesn't recoil like the heavier class rifles.
I already own a 300 Win mag in a pre FN Super Grade, and a 338 in a Ruger, purchased in and around 2002-3, the last catalog year with issue iron sights.
I like this Alaskan alot, and if that rifle would have been out when I was looking for a 338, I would have that in an Alaskan too.
I'll stay with the Super Grade however.
If you can, handle each one and see whats right for you. They are different in there handling, feel, etc.
But either way you cant go wrong, awesome production rifles anyway you look at it and, yes, a wonderfully long history.
Crash87

Crash... good to hear some feedback on the modern FN Model 70s. Personally I prefer the appearance of the Alaskan over the Safari, however the Safari seems to have more stoutness (dual recoil lugs, cross bolts, barrel sling swivel) built in to handle the heavier loads.

I have seen pictures of some Alaskans with dual cross bolts but I believe the current model only has one. From the literature on the Alaskan I assume it has one recoil lug. I am not sure any of that detracts from the Alaskan.

Has the front sling swivel on the Alaskan ever given you a problem while shooting the .375 H&H?

The post 93 FN Model 70s intrigue me. Is there any way to tell from the serial number that a Model 70 was manufactured by FN post 93?

[Texas by God]

My brother has a Ruger Magnum in .375 for his elk rifle. I've shot it a bit and my advice is don't shoot prone or use a low benchrest. The recoil is more of a hard push than a quick punch. I'd rather shoot a box of .375 H&H than 5 30-378 Wby any day.
Good luck with your quest.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[dverna]

I have always wanted one...M70 in .375 H&H. A great cartridge in a great rifle.

It is an itch I have never scratched. Nothing I will ever run into needs that kind of medicine. And I am recoil sensitive. I wish I had acquired one years ago but it is late for me to travel that path.

Good luck with your journey. BTW, I think it is one of those combinations that will never go down in value.

[Chill Wills]

I would second the idea of the Mark-X rifle and action. I have no experience with the factory stocks. I found mine in the late 1980's or early 1990's.

In a great old gun shop I used to visit, stocked to the roof with treasure, there were three factory cardboard boxes containing Interarms Whitworth barreled actions, two were 375H&H and one 458 Win. No Stocks. $350 new.
One came home with me. Bell and Carlson made a drop in synthetic stock - about $100 then. Good to go. My only 375 H&H.

Not M-70 by any stretch, if that IS the only rifle that will do, but for a great 375, my Mark-X it outstanding! It scratched my itch and I shoot it well with 285gr PP cast bullets at full power. In all these years, I only hunted with it once, and took home one cow elk. Still, it is fun to shoot.

[white eagle]

I have been a Win Mod 70 fan for almost as long as I have been hunting
My first was a push feed 280 Remington and later I bought a 7-08 compact crf
being not very thrilled with either cartridge I turned the 280 rem into a 280 Ackley Improved with a new barrel from Pac-Nor and the 7-08 I stripped that barrel and put on another Pac-Nor barrel chambered in 358 win
I still have both and together they have accounted for numerous game animals
I have always wanted a 375 H&H in a model 70 you should do well with yours

[30calflash]

I received an M70 375 Super Grade about 1993, give or take a couple. FN ran the plant, a friend worked in the model shop and got a great deal on one. Fit, finish and everything else about the rifle is very good. I've shot only jacketed thus far, only with the open sights.

I've a Rem 700 375 safari grade also, gunshow find from years back, shot mostly low vel cast thru it, prolly 38-55 equivalent, shot 1.6 MOA at 100 yds, the only distance available then. The rifle was scoped.

There's some replies mentioning weight and feel of the piece, the weight wasn't an issue on my end, but I didn't lug one around for days like some others here may have. They shot well because of some extra weight, recoil wasn't an issue for me.

If you can handle one, see how the sights line up for you, if scope mounting then it being drilled and tapped will mean more to you. You wouldn't want to D&T a clean pre 64 M70 if you could avoid it, me thinks.

Luck on your search, 30cf.

[ascast]

I have one and like it a lot. You should get one. Beware- I have read that the very first release of these the barrels were too thin for 375 and would bulge. Just stick that away for later. If your looking..

[kens]

six-bits. I like it. never thought of it that way.
Well then, I got a 6-bit Ruger in the closet

[crash87]

Crash... good to hear some feedback on the modern FN Model 70s. Personally I prefer the appearance of the Alaskan over the Safari, however the Safari seems to have more stoutness (dual recoil lugs, cross bolts, barrel sling swivel) built in to handle the heavier loads.

I have seen pictures of some Alaskans with dual cross bolts but I believe the current model only has one. From the literature on the Alaskan I assume it has one recoil lug. I am not sure any of that detracts from the Alaskan.

Has the front sling swivel on the Alaskan ever given you a problem while shooting the .375 H&H?

The post 93 FN Model 70s intrigue me. Is there any way to tell from the serial number that a Model 70 was manufactured by FN post 93?

No Problems with the front swivel stud, and, not so sure about pre or post 93's. Gotta be something out here in web land though?
I have 2 crossbolts on my rifle, and yes on the 1 recoil lug also.
crash87

[Trinidad Bill]

There is not much out there in web land to find post 93 serial number except... the 800 number for Winchester Guns. I had a serial number of a Model 70 Classic Express, if you followed the typical table that is out on the web the serial number would indicated it was manufactured in 1984. I called Winchester, quick easy call, the Classic Express was manufactured in 1997!

http://www.winchesterguns.com/support/faq/date-your-firearm.html