452-228-1R 45 Not chambering

[Al_Bundy]

comparing with berrys bullets 45 230gr i can chamber them fine at 1.255 and a .471 at the mouth after crimped. they plunk and come out like butter. The powder coated ones are giving me trouble. As you can see the closest i can get to chambering one of these bullets is at 1.186 and .472 at the mouth. I used to get this problem with my 45-70 pc bullets but i just seated deeper and they chambered. I've been reading this is a problem with modern 1911's and its just best to try a different bullet mold, or use a 451 sizer. What are your guys' thoughts? Top pic is 1.186 cast pc, 2nd pic is berrys bullet, 3rd pic is 1.235 cast pc. PC bullets are all sized to 452.http://i66.tinypic.com/fvy87k.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/2ldx0sz.jpghttp://i63.tinypic.com/15i918j.jpg

[Al_Bundy]

Okay after more reading up on this, i think i'm confident enough to believe this is a safe OAL as long as i work up a load starting from the low side. I'll also shorten it another thousandths because they dont quite fall out as easy as the plated do so just in case i need to eject one, it one be a hassle to get it out of the chamber. I'm currently at 5.7gr of unique with berrys plated so i think 5.0gr will do for starters. sucks all the work i put into powder coating and now 90% of the bullet is hidden because i have to seat to deep :(

[FlyfishermanMike]

I use the same mold and encountered the same issue. I was initially startled to seat so deep but it's the style of the bullet. If you compare case volume to another bullet you'll see they differ very little. I seat mine, also PC'd at 1.185" and they pass the plunk test in all my barrels. It's best to rework the load but you'll probably and up back at where you were.

I have a NOE HTC452-230-RF that I have to seat at 1.140"!

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[DougGuy]

Throat the barrel, then go back to the COA you wanted to use. The ammo isn't the problem, the lack of sufficient freebore in the throat is the problem. Lot of barrels have rifling running right down to the chamber mouth with zero freebore for the boolit to seat in the throat. They basically don't have ANY throat. It's a simple fix to cure the issue, and they shoot lights out afterwards..

What you likely have:

206953

What you need:

206954

[Al_Bundy]

Throat the barrel, then go back to the COA you wanted to use. The ammo isn't the problem, the lack of sufficient freebore in the throat is the problem. Lot of barrels have rifling running right down to the chamber mouth with zero freebore for the boolit to seat in the throat. They basically don't have ANY throat. It's a simple fix to cure the issue, and they shoot lights out afterwards..

What you likely have:

206953

What you need:

206954

cool but i wont be able to shoot these in other guns including ones i dont own if i stay with the long oal. I'll just stay work around this issue with deeper seating. i could see myself trying this fix on my barrel if i ever get bored.

[runfiverun]

stop coating them.
the 45 never needed anything like that to work.
the extra thickness on the nose is screwing you over, especially since the mold design wasn't made for more diameter.

you can modify the gun.
not add extra to the bullet.
or get a mold designed to have stuff put on it to fit.

[roharmon]

I have two Colt 1911’s- one a series 70 and one a series 80 Commander- that shoot powdercoat rounds just fine. I use the Lyman 452/225 and the Lee 452/230 sized to .452. The OAL depends on the powder used, but runs anywhere from 1.17 to 1.26.


stop coating them.
the 45 never needed anything like that to work.
the extra thickness on the nose is screwing you over, especially since the mold design wasn't made for more diameter.

you can modify the gun.
not add extra to the bullet.
or get a mold designed to have stuff put on it to fit.

[DougGuy]

cool but i wont be able to shoot these in other guns including ones i dont own if i stay with the long oal. I'll just stay work around this issue with deeper seating. i could see myself trying this fix on my barrel if i ever get bored.

I can take the same ammo and shoot groups half the size of those fired by your unthroated barrel. Meaning there is room for improvement by throating the barrel. SAAMI specs call for a throat there, they call for freebore and tapered leade in to the rifling. JMB designed the 1911 with a few priorities in mind. The throat of the barrel was one of the critical points in his original design. Function and reliability being the FIRST priority, and accuracy running a close second. Funny how things work well with a 1911 when it is fitted as the master designated it to be!

You should be more concerned with bringing the barrel to it's most accurate point, which would be throated and crowned, than what ammo will fit in it. This is a backward approach to a common problem, manufacturers who don't want to take the time to *properly* throat a barrel, PER SAAMI SPECS, and could care less about their product once it is sold.

[runfiverun]

your not using his mold.
your using a lyman they are the powder coaters best friend.
they are the ones I use when coating too.

[roharmon]

I use a lee as well.

[Dusty Bannister]

Which one?
TL-452-230-2R
TL-452-230-TC
452-230-TC
The 452-228-1R has a round ball nose not like the TL-452-230-2R whose nose profile never reaches the .452" diameter of the body.

[kens]

I'm gonna jump in and say that with casting loads for auto pistols, I had many of slide fail to close/fail plunk test until I started using a crimp die.
I am now a firm believer in crimp die for auto pistols.
Sometimes the leftover case mouth bevel is too slight to see with your eyes, nor feel with the hand, but the auto pistol can detect it. (fail to close)
For a long time I had cast reloads that I just could not figure why I was having so much trouble. Then came the crimp die. THAT is when all my cast reloads started to run in a auto like factory ammo.

[runfiverun]

dusty and Ken both make good points.
we deal in .001's they make all the difference with what we are doing here.
look at Doug's post, he is showing the end of most chambers cut now.
then take a design made for guns that had a bevel in that area 30 years ago.
now you don't have the bevel, you have a design made for a slight bevel and you add more to the front of the round.
of course it hits the rifling.

[EMC45]

I have had problems with that bullet in multiple .45s. I stopped using it. Mine were cast from COWWs sized to .452 and would cause stoppages often. I shoot the .452 TC without problems in all my .45 now.

[mdi]

I've read of this bullet causing OAL/seating problems because the "1R" profile differs from the "2R" profile (short and fat) enough for the bullet to hit the end of the chamber/rifling at a "normal" seating depth. I remember a few threads aboutbthis situation here on castboolits a few times...

[Texas by God]

I've used this bullet for 30 yrs. you have to seat it deep to work and then it does work. It took a bit to figure it out but but I still use it; the loaded rounds just look weird.

[Grmps]

I had the same problem and do what Texas by God does, set it deep enough to chamber then give it a hair more for insurance and crimp hard enough to hold it but don't get carried away.
I got a TL452-230-2R and that solved the problem without deep seating.

[Moonie]

If the boolit fits without powder coat I have a different suggestion, Doug does awesome work though and I would certainly say his is the proper solution. I use the frankfort arsenal mold release to decrease the size of the cast boolits, then the powder coat brings it back up to the proper diameter. The only good use for that stuff.

[sledgehammer001]

I actually came to the forum tonight to search out this very problem! How lucky can I get :grin:? Thanks everybody! Jeez, I love this place!
BTW, my 1911 has a decent leade, just being cantankerous....

[FlyfishermanMike]

My stock Glock, lone wolf and shield barrels are all the same with virtually no throat. My Hi Point carbine had an enormous one. Seating the bullet out the furthest possible doesn't engage the rifling.

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[Al_Bundy]

I had the same problem and do what Texas by God does, set it deep enough to chamber then give it a hair more for insurance and crimp hard enough to hold it but don't get carried away.
I got a TL452-230-2R and that solved the problem without deep seating.

Thanks man, gonna send it back to amazon for the 2R.

[fredj338]

OAL is always gun & bullet specific. You are just loading too long for that bullet in that gun. The fat ogive of the 1R makes seating deeper required. Nothing wrong with the 1R, just try it shorter, like 1.240". No such thing as seating too deep if it functions.

[35remington]

Even in my 1911 barrels that have some throat I cannot seat the 228-1R longer than 1.220."