Personal distance record with cast

[MTWeatherman]

After spending over 30 years trying to get a record class 5X5 mule deer with a 30" spread or better...finally convinced myself I wasn't going to do it on public land. So for the past 10 years, I leave the .300 Winchester home when hunting deer and confine myself to iron sights...either a .44 Mag SBH or a .32 Special '94 Winchester with a Williams Receiver sight. It's my way of adding a challenge to the hunt. I've taken enough game in my career to no longer feel the need to fill a deer tag. I've restricted myself to 3X3 or better deer and try to hold the shots to 50 yds or less with the handgun...or 100 yards or less with the rifle. That's a big challenge in my part of the country. The area in hunt in is big rugged coulees with shots usually cross canyon and 200 yards or better. The .300 could have brought home several 4X4s last year. I didn't fire a shot with the .44 or .32. Cast bullets are now all I use in either of them.

Well this year after failing to close the gap to under 250 yards on a couple of 3X3s and a 4X4 and passing up two chances on forkhorns at about 100 yards with the .32, I caught a 3X3 on a small plateau broadside at an estimated 125-150 yards. My hunting buddy and I were together heading back to the vehicle. Since I'm usually capable of shooting at least 8" groups under hunting conditions at that range and my hunting buddy was there with his 7mm Mag for backup, I decided to go for it. The rifle is lined up for 175 yards and I held dead center on the boiler room. At the shot, the deer slumped, ran about 15 feet, started to stand up on its hind legs, and fell over backward. It was dead when I reached it no more than 25 feet from where it had been hit.

The RCBS cast bullet hit a bit lower than intended but hit the heart dead center shattering the ribs on both sides and left a 1.5 inch exit hole. I thought that front sight looked awfully large on that deer. We paced the distance to the deer and came up with 178 yards. I don't have a range finder but the GPS gave 492 feet or 164 yards with about +/- 6 yard accuracy.

Previous game was indeed taken at about 100 years or less with the rifle. I suspect this record may hold as I don't intend to try to beat it. I underestimated the range and wouldn't have taken that shot without that scope sighted 7mm for backup.

However, needless to say, I was impressed with the performance of that cast bullet. Hitting the heart was a lucky shot, but it's performance indicates it to be a lethal performer beyond the range of my expected use...that exit hole was a testimonial to that.

[MT Gianni]

Nice shooting. gianni.

[JDL]

Way to go MTWeatherman! I don't reccomend it but, cast boolits can kill at surprising distances, as you proved.
I made a long range shot once, back in the late '70's. I had just started to use cast boolits in rifles and got a shot at a small buck close to 200 yards. Well, being young and foolish, and with the wisdom that jacketed bullets had taught, I made the shot. It went true and the deer only ran maybe 25 yards before piling up. Now, I try to singe the hair with the muzzle blast. :-) -JDL

[TCLouis]

Good story and great results there MTW!

What boolit and load ya using?
Lube, etc., you know the whole enchilada.

The nosey and curious await the basis of your sucess!!

[DOUBLEJK]

Nice goin'....nothin' beats a success story n this is a good un'8-)
Cast boolits seem to be able to press the envelope a bit when the need arises....providin' you do your part...hit em where they need ta be hit like ya done n cast werks good....
sometimes surprizin' good...

[MTWeatherman]

Good story and great results there MTW!

What boolit and load ya using?
Lube, etc., you know the whole enchilada.

The nosey and curious await the basis of your sucess!!

Thanks TC (and Gianni, JDL, and JK).

I'm a bit hesitant to reveal that load because although in line with the initial Lyman #1 cast manual, it would be considered hot by todays standards. Nevertheless, in line with truth in advertising, will do so because this load was carefully worked up in this rifle which has continued to handle it successfully without any pressure signs and excellent accuracy for some time now.

The usual legal precautions of reduce load by 10%, work up, watch for pressure signs, etc. follow.

The bullet is the gas checked RCBS listed at 170gr (32-170-FN). I use a ratio of 1 part Lino to 3 parts WW for the alloy...estimated BHN about 13.5. With gas check and lube it weighs in at 179gr...close enough to 180 to consider it as such. The bullet was lubed with Lyman Super Moly although I've had equal success with Javelina. I've also used a modified version of Felix lube with success. I consider the bullet to be equal to commercial jacketed in performance in this rifle...not as high in BC as the Speer but certainly the difference is not noticeable to 100 yards.

The load is 31.5 gr. of 3031...zero leading and excellent accuracy. I used 32 gr. for awhile with no pressure signs but backed off 1/2 grain to err on the side of safety. When a bit younger, that 32 gr load would easily produce groups of 2" or less at 100 yards. With these aging 61 year old eyes 3-4" is more like it today...that from a bench. When working up those loads a few years ago, I noticed little difference in groups from 31 to 32 gr.

AT 10 feet from the muzzle, 31.5 gr chronographs at 2085 fps with an ES of 17 fps in a three shot string. 32 gr. will give you 2140. Thats from a 20" '94 carbine barrel.

A side note: Decent loading data for the .32 Special is difficult to obtain today...and Lyman cast bullet #3 is a joke for this cartridge. To a large extent, one is forced to rely on old manuals...or use 30-30 data and work up from there. With essentially the same cartridge case capacity...and an 8 to 9% larger bore, the .32 can safely handle a bit more powder than the 30-30. The older manuals bore that out.

[C1PNR]

Good job on that deer. I understand the need to kill not being the driving force, but that venison sure does taste good!

I am especially interested in your load as I'm also shooting a '94 in 32 Special.

I presume you are using the RCBS 32-170 mould, but how about the rest of the recipe? I don't have the receiver sight, and not sure if I want to drill on this 19 teens receiver. But I might, since someone already whacked off about 6" of the original 26" octagon barrel.:mad:

[SharpsShooter]

Outstanding Shot! That 32 load really performed for you well. The proof of CB performance is found in the field. A buddy of mine has an elderly Winchester in that caliber and it sure gets the jobe done.

[onceabull]

MTWxxxxxxxxxxxxx: Yes,fine demo.!! I have that mould and some 32 WiN SP.rifles.. no big game seasons left in this area,but am already working on getting ready for next fall, have new to me.Marlin '93,24" round barrel marked "special smokeless steel" that needs a field trip..not d & t'ed for scope or peep,and I dislike tang sights on carrying rifles,so got to get in open iron range which for me should fit right in with this caliber/rifle..enjoyed your post !! Onceabull

[sundog]

MTWxman, congrats on a good shot. I discovered the same [over] load some years ago. At first I was a little concerned about being over book, but in my M94 it works very well. I certainly would never suggest to anyone to use it for a starting load though. I think one reason we might be okay with it is that the M94s I am familiar with have a 16 twist which may allow going over a tad and still be safe. There's also some load data on castpics. The RCBS 32-170-FN is pretty much the standard by which other boolits, including full length condums, should be measured in this loading. sundog

[The Nyack Kid]

congrats MT
anouther montana muledeer falls to cast.
I have found that a good hunting boolit sould only be limited by the shooters ablity to judge range and get the boolit into the kill zone .the boolit will do whats needed .

[Char-Gar]

Thanks for the report. I have a primo 1959 vintage 94 Carbine in 32 WS in the safe that I have yet to fire. It is equiped with an old Lyman 66 sight.

I have the same RCBS mold and will cast some bullets in a couple of weeks and give it a go.

Years ago Jack O'Connor wrote that 31.5/3031/170 JSP was max for the 94 in 30/30. I used that load for years with zero problems. I used the same charge under 170 cast GC as well with excellent accuracy. I have never had the least sign of excessive pressure.

Extrapolating from my experience with that load in the 30-30, I would think your 32 WS load should short of the red line by a safe margin.

In these recent years of litigation, loading manuals have become very, very conservative to say the least.

Of course..I certainly would not recommend anybody use my loads as they are over the load book max..blah..blah..blah.

[C1PNR]

MTWeatherman,

Thanks for the load data. :-)

There is something weird going on for me. When I posted asking for the data, your EARLIER post was not shown on my computer.

I've been noticing that for the last several days. I post something, and later come back and see posts dated earlier than mine.:-?

[waksupi]

Good going on the mulie. The more I use cast bullets for hunting, the more respect I have for them. This past week, a friend shot a bull elk in the shoulder with a jacketed .30-06, and it got away from him. I suspect too much early expansion, and not enough penetration. I'm going to try to convert him. I think he is ripe for the change.

[MTWeatherman]

Thanks for the congratulatory remarks...Appreciate it. However, hadn't checked this section in some time before the initial post here and just realized how many of you offering those comments have already had a successful season. Looks like the Montana contingent is pretty well represented...Waksupi with an elk and Nyack with a 5x5 mulie no less (those don't come easily)...and Gianni a double. Congratulations to all...a bit late but still heartfelt.

Sundog...Interesting we came up with the same load and were confident we were still operating safely in spite of the current manuals. As you can tell, I share your opinion on that RCBS bullet.

Chargar...Thanks for the information on your experience with the 30-30. You and Sundog substantiated what I already in my own mind knew was true. Think you'll rapidly become attached to that .32. FYI that .32 of mine hails from 1950. Its a sentimental rifle as it was my dad's. As a teenager, I carried it all over the Flathead Valley (Waksupi's home) when most was still wilderness. Took my first deer with it at 12 and elk at 15.

C1PNR...I assumed you hadn't seen the reloading post yet. Hope you find the information useful. I should add that those loads were developed with CCI200 primers and although initial development was with .32 Special brass...I now use necked up 30-30 brass. Doesn't seem logical to pay twice as much for brass simply to have ".32 Special" engraved on it.

To further substantiate the safety of the load (in my rifle...not necessarily yours...blah...blah), Lyman cast bullet manual #1 from the late 50s indicates that max load for their 321297 180 grain cast at 33 grains of 3031. Speer #6 from the 60s lists 34 grains for their 170 condom and Hornady Handbook #3 from the 80s lists 32.8 for theirs. I just checked online to discover that IMR no longer even furnishes load data for the .32 Special.

...and for those who may not have seen it and have an interest in the .32, the following link is to an article by McPherson which in addition to being an interesting read on the .32 discusses the habitual and historical underloading of the cartridge.

http://www.levergun.com/articles/special.htm

Good Hunting!

[C1PNR]

MTWeatherman,

Thanks, I added the primer info.

For years I did the same for brass, just sized up 30-30 stuff from gun shows, range pick up, etc. In fact, I did the same for 25-35 loads, too.

But not too long ago I finally bought a 30-30, and a couple of years later another one. Well, I hate the thought of taking rifle "A" and ammo "B" out hunting, or any other place!:???: I've actually done that with 32 WCF and 32 WS.:veryconfu

So lately I've been resizing my empty 30-30 headstamp brass back to 30-30 specs. And I bit the boolit and bought some 32 headstamped brass, even though I REALLY didn't want to.