.45 ACP box from 1918 with empty case advice

[partsproduction]

Hi, this is just a question I had, wondering why Remington .45 ACP boxes made in 1918 had a panel with this advice;
"NOTICE
As soon as possible after firing, De-Cap the shells and
throw them into water. Clean the inside thoroughly with a
brush wiper or piece of bag on the end of a wiping rod. Dry
and pack loosely in ammunition box."

Does anyone here know why Remingon put such strange exterior writing on their boxes? It was suggested in another forum that it was because of corrosive primers, but that still implies that Remington expected the average 1911 owner to reload, that's hard for me to accept. Alternatively it occurred to me that Remington may have been paying a small bounty for empty brass, like coke bottles. But surely Remington wouldn't sell reloaded ammo would they?
This is just a mystery to me, no one selling ammo today seems to care about what is done with the empties, and I don't think they would even if we still had corrosive primers.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.
parts

[partsproduction]

A thought just occurred to me, 1918 was still wartime for a while, maybe it had to do with salvaging brass for the war effort?

[Earlwb]

I vote for them using corrosive primers and if you were going to reload then you want to clean them up right away. At the time, I doubt they had thought about the mercury residue maybe weakening the brass.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez you will find similar statements on US ammo for a few decades previous to this headstamp.
These were to accomodate (field?) reloading activities and "not wasting Perfectly Good cartridge cases".
Headstamp date is in the ballpark of when the mercury embrittling brass (since it is a copper/ ZINC alloy)
issue was outgefiggered. (Pure COPPER cartridge cases are OK. Zinc alloying screws it up.))

[charles1990]

To get out the mercuric priming residue. Wrecked cases, especially those with little powder to dilute it.

[partsproduction]

you will find similar statements on US ammo for a few decades previous to this headstamp.

It hadn't occurred to me to check other calibers. Others also had such advice on the packaging?

[Earlwb]

It hadn't occurred to me to check other calibers. Others also had such advice on the packaging?

Oh yeah they did put the same message on boxes for other calibers too. Some were more strict stating the cases were not to be reloaded too.

Here is a example for the venerable 45-70 ammunition:
ref https://www.joesalter.com/category/products/Box-20-Rds-Frankford-Arsenal-Carbine-Ball-Reloading-for-Trapdoor

[Larry Gibson]

To get out the mercuric priming residue. Wrecked cases, especially those with little powder to dilute it.

That is correct. The problem was understood in the very late 1890s. Primers with fulminate of mercury were discontinued and non-mercuric primers were introduced. That solver the problem with smokeless powder cases being wrecked by the mercury. The primers were however still "corrosive" to iron and steel as they left chlorate salts in the residue which promoted rust.

[3006guns]

To get out the mercuric priming residue. Wrecked cases, especially those with little powder to dilute it.

Negative. Not mercuric priming which hadn't been used for years. It was potassium chlorate, the old "corrosive" primers which turned to potassium chloRIDE (salt) and got deposited in the bore.

The military used chlorate primers due to their storage longevity. For years riflemen were plagued with mysterious "after rust" despite a thorough cleaning. It turned out that ordinary water was the quickest way to dissolve and remove the salt. Oil just covered it up.

[TNsailorman]

Back in the 60's I fired quite a bit of military surplus ammo because it was all I could afford at the time. I cleaned with hot soapy water, dried the bore and chamber very good and then used WW II surplus corrosive bore cleaner(.05 a can at the Army & Navy store) to make sure. Then oiled the bore and chamber good with military surplus oil(.05 a can at the Army & Navy store). Worked for this ol boy, james

[Larry Gibson]

Negative. Not mercuric priming which hadn't been used for years. It was potassium chlorate, the old "corrosive" primers which turned to potassium chloRIDE (salt) and got deposited in the bore.

The military used chlorate primers due to their storage longevity. For years riflemen were plagued with mysterious "after rust" despite a thorough cleaning. It turned out that ordinary water was the quickest way to dissolve and remove the salt. Oil just covered it up.

Frankford Arsenal developed its #70 mixture in non-mercuric improved H-48 mixture which wasn't introduced until September, 1919. Mercuric primers were sold as reloading components up until WWI.

[vzerone]

Frankford Arsenal developed its #70 mixture in non-mercuric improved H-48 mixture which wasn't introduced until September, 1919. Mercuric primers were sold as reloading components up until WWI.

I don't know Larry. Myself I might not say Frankfort Arsenal developed it's #70. Frankford Arsenal adopted the Winchester Repeating Arms Company's 35-NF primer mix which was then standardized as FA-70 and was used in 0.45 ACP and .30-06 ammunition throughout World War II and into the 1950s. Appears to me that Winchester did.

As a side note why were they concerned about the fired empty brass? Because of the need to reuse spent cartridge cases for economic reasons, there has been no mercury in U.S. military small arms primers manufactured since 1898. It was used to a later date (about 1930) in certain U.S. commercial primers. In 1898 the U.S. military adopted a nonmercuric primer composition, coded H-48, for use in the .30 Krag cartridge.

[Larry Gibson]

"there has been no mercury in U.S. military small arms primers manufactured since 1898."

I'll refer you to Philip Sharpe's "Complete Guide to Handloading", dtd 1937. He was little closer to the correct information than you or I. Also in "Hatchers Notebook" states the adoption of the #70 Frankford primer was in 1919.

The information may have been printed on the box because mercuric primers were still available for reloading.

[vzerone]

The research I done pointed out that mercuric primers were indeed for sale for reloaders after the military switched.

You're probably right Sharpe and Hatcher were closer to this than you or I, but saying Frankfort Arsenal adopted the new primer is quite different then who invented the new compound. Everything I found points to Winchester.

[Larry Gibson]

I suppose both Sharpe and Hatcher are basically correct. The problem here is the OP's 45 ACP ammunition is Remington, not Winchester nor Frankford Arsenal. It is possible Remington was still using primers with mercury in them in1918(?).

[vzerone]

I'll try to research that.

[30calflash]

This is all good info, I think we can say that maybe wartime production of materials could mean that mercuric primers could have been loaded until stocks were depleted, maybe after the war? Just a thought.

[vzerone]

Primers fall into three categories: mercuric and corrosive, nonmercuric but corrosive, and mercuric but noncorrosive. The first NMNC primer mixture with satisfactory ignition properties and good shelf life was produced by RWS in 1928. The compound was Lead Styphnate, actual compositions being: Lead styphnate 25% to 55%, Barium nitrate 24% to 25%, Antimony sulfide 0% to 10%, Lead dioxide 5% to !0%, Tetracene 0.5% to 5%, Calcium silicide 3% to 15%, and Glass powder 0% to 5%.

With very few exceptions, the U.S. commercial primers became noncorrosive about 1931, but because of stringent U.S. government specifications for military ammuniations, which could not be met by the earlier versions of the new NCNM primer mixtures, it was not early 1950's that the U.S. military ammuniation became noncorrosive.

[partsproduction]

Yes, thanks for all the information, and responding to one who is obviously such a noob compared to many of you guys.
BTW>

Here is a example for the venerable 45-70 ammunition:
ref https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...g-for-Trapdoor

"Never load a primed shell without a safety socket" WTH is a safety socket?

[shunka]

Yes, thanks for all the information, and responding to one who is obviously such a noob compared to many of you guys.
BTW>

"Never load a primed shell without a safety socket" WTH is a safety socket?


from here:
http://www.oldammo.com/november14.htm

"The cautions on these boxes include the line 'Never load a primed shell without using a SAFETY-SOCKET'. What is being referred to is a a tubular section of steel (replaced later by a square block of steel) with a round recessed area to accept the head of the shell, in the center of which was a hole that was centered under the primer when the case was set in the recessed area. This eliminated the possibility of the primer detonating during the process of seating and crimping the bullet in place."

[vzerone]

from here:
http://www.oldammo.com/november14.htm

"The cautions on these boxes include the line 'Never load a primed shell without using a SAFETY-SOCKET'. What is being referred to is a a tubular section of steel (replaced later by a square block of steel) with a round recessed area to accept the head of the shell, in the center of which was a hole that was centered under the primer when the case was set in the recessed area. This eliminated the possibility of the primer detonating during the process of seating and crimping the bullet in place."

Gee! I wonder how long it took them to find that out? :roll:

[Larry Gibson]

from here:
http://www.oldammo.com/november14.htm

"The cautions on these boxes include the line 'Never load a primed shell without using a SAFETY-SOCKET'. What is being referred to is a a tubular section of steel (replaced later by a square block of steel) with a round recessed area to accept the head of the shell, in the center of which was a hole that was centered under the primer when the case was set in the recessed area. This eliminated the possibility of the primer detonating during the process of seating and crimping the bullet in place."

The shell holders we now use essentially do the same. Same on the Dillon SDB but not so on the 550B. Same on the Forster/Bonanza COAX.

[vzerone]

The people back then didn't have OHSA to safely protect them!