Expierment

[David R]

ok folks, I have a 1 lb roll of 95/5 Tin/antiminy. I will pour some boolits and see if I can make them lead. I also have lots of 50/50 solder.

I will follow YOUR instructions. I have a 45 colt we could use as a test. I prefer not to lead the heck out of one of my rifles as I don't like cleaning it. I also have a TC contender Pistol and a 311410 plain base boolit we could try. I usually shoot gas checked soup cans out of this gun, but it would be a good one to spearmint with.

My thoughts on the tin thing. The lyman 45th edition sez too much tin can cause leading. I don't know but would like to find out.

I will be the guinnea pig.

Oink Oink
David

[Bass Ackward]

David,

OK. I would say that you need to shoot both. It is easier to control the mechanics involved with a rifle. If it doesn't cause leading there, then you can fight the transformations of a wheeler. Plus, that Colt is going to eat your tin supply quick.

I would say that you need to pour your bullets first and see what they weigh before making a powder selection. They are going to be WAY light. Most other steps should be as usual. Can you recover this tin for repeat attempts?

[Cherokee]

Sounds interesting, keep us informed. I know my 230 gr 45 ACP bullet cast at 166 gr in 75% Tin. Never fired any, just a learning stunt.

[Iron River Red]

I would like to know the bore and bullet sizes prior to shooting. I will cast the same solder alloy and fire them to compare the results.

Red

[David R]

How bout this?

Gun... TC 32-20. As you all know this has a .308 bore.
Boolit...Lyman 311410, 130 grain plainbase roundnose with one pretty big grease groove.


1) pour one pure lead boolit and slug the bore.

2) pour 8 "regular" boolits from my #2 alloy.

3) pour 8 boolits from 50/50 solder.

4) pour 8 boolits from 95/5 solder.

5) load each boolit with 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 grains of ..........of ....WW296? 2400? Blue Dot? Need some help here.

Shoot each boolit, run a brush through the barrel, shoot the next higher load, brush, look shoot, brush look shoot.......till there is lead in the barrel.

Clean gun start over with next alloy.

Crony loads at speed barrel shows lead for each alloy.

Post results.

Whaddyathink?

[Cayoot]

This does sound interesting

[swheeler]

David R; your 32/20 has a .308" bore? Then I assume the groove diameter is around .315-.316? Huh?

[StarMetal]

Let's get this straight. The bore is the hole they drill through the barrel and then ream/hone to whatever caliber. Take for example a 30 caliber. That hole ideally would be .300 inch. Then they cut the rifling, I use cut loosely as they can be cut, broached, hammerforged, or button rifled. Let's presume they are cutting them for a .308 Winchester. So we have that honed .300 hole and now they cut the rifling to to say .004 in deep. Now when you measure the groove diameter (groove to groove) you get .004 + .004 + .300 = .308. So when you say you're measured your bore you really are using the really are technically saying you measured the diameter from top of land to top of land. The lands are what are left of the bore after the barrel has been rifled.

Joe

[swheeler]

Joe; I think what he meant was a .308 groove diameter and erroniously referred to it as bore diameter. Very few barrels are broached anymore(broach cut) because of cost of tooling.

[StarMetal]

Yeah I know that, was just making it clear for those that don't know it or can't say it right.

Joe

[David R]

Uh Huh, I was wrong, it takes a standard 30 cal boolit.....308 Groove.

I want to do this tomorrow, but have not decided what powder. I am thinking WC820 because I need to get to know this stuff better. I will crony EVERY load so I can watch for changes.

David

[David R]

Boolits are poured.

Pure lead .309" 134.5 grains

#2 Alloy .3095 131.4 grains

50/50 .310 113.9 grains

95/5 .311 84.7 grains


When I got to the 50/50 boolit, I thought my scale was broke. This adds a little twist, I will have to go a little lighter on the charge to get the same velocity for the boolits with more tin in em.

I do not plan on shooting the pure lead, it was just for reference.

I don't know how much the 5% antimony is going to matter, perhaps you guys could speculate.

What a spread. This is supposed to be a 130 grain 30 carbine boolit.

David

[porkchop bob]

David R. - An interesting test.

I do have some questions:
_ What lube are you using?
_ For each alloy, at the point when leading is noticed, have you considered changing the lube to see what happens as it is the third variable in this test.

Thanks, Bob

[porkchop bob]

My thoughts on the tin thing. The lyman 45th edition sez too much tin can cause leading. I don't know but would like to find out.

When I got to the 50/50 boolit, I thought my scale was broke. This adds a little twist, I will have to go a little lighter on the charge to get the same velocity for the boolits with more tin in em.

David, I think you have hit on the nub of the problem. I suspect lots of us would not think to reduce the load. The lighter boolit, with the same load, will go faster and everything ele being equal, will increase the chance of leading.

Bob

[David R]

Boolits are loaded. I had 21 cases, so I loaded 7 of each.

My groove is .308, bore is .300.

I hope to sneak out of work tomorrow to the range, but its been busy. If not look for something by thursday.

David

[David R]

OK, I took the loads to the range today.

Started with a clean barrel, fired each shot, ran a nylon bristle brush down the bore and looked for lead.

Wheelweights:

First shot, 829 fps, nuttin but powder in the barrel.
Second shot 1017
Third 1211
4: 1268
5: 1508 Some lead in the beginning of the rifling
6: 1647 No more lead than the last shot
7: 1731....Totally leaded the barrel from front to back.

Scrubbed the barrel with a "turbo" brush. Got all the lead out.

50/50 solder

1: 895
2: 1016
3: 1232
4: 1294
5: 1558 Small amount in beginning of rifling.
6: 1673 No more.
7: 1727 No more.

95/5 Tin / antimony

1: 756
2: 876
3: 1059
4: 1220
5: 1581
6: primer in upside down.
7: 1831

No leading at all!

SOOO in my opinion from my small test,

Myth Busted!

I had fun, and learned about WC820 in my 32-20. I might have found a new boolit for this gun too.

David

[swheeler]

Good job David! It always nice to dispell old wives tales. In this case all that tin didnot cause leading but actually alviated it to a degree. Kinda looks like Mr Bass was on the money with this one!
Scooter

[David R]

What surprised me the most is the Ultra light tin boolits and their velocity compared to the ones of #2 alloy. Almost the same for the same charge of WC820.

David

[Finn45]

How did you expect to get leading with nonleaded solder?

Smart ass but got nothing to do right this minute :bigsmyl2: .

Seriously, good experiment, thanks for sharing it. With this present haunting of all lead containing materials in my neighborhood, I'll be shooting tin before I even realize. Sadly it's so light, much lighter than copper actually. But well, let the boolit be big.

Lighter bullet lowered the pressure enough to keep velocity low as well. Maybe friction has additional affection on this also.