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View Full Version : 429421 vs .44-250KT



Sven
08-09-2008, 10:04 PM
I bid on and won a Lyman 429421 on ebay the other day, but the guy sent me a RCBS .44-250KT. I've e-mailed back and forth with the seller and he's willing to refund my money if I send it back, but it sounds like he sent the 429421 to someone else and doesn't have it anymore. Apparently the other guy didn't complain. He had about 5 different boolit casting things going at once.

Anyway, how much difference is there between the two molds and the boolits they drop? I'm thinking of just keeping it. The .44-250KT went for about $10 higher than I paid for the 429421.

kooz
08-09-2008, 10:28 PM
The RCBS 44-250 KT is an excellent bullet, I would keep the mold. Try the search feature and you will be able to find pictures of both bullets.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=34146

454PB
08-09-2008, 10:33 PM
It's very close to same, and a good design. I'd keep it.

GLL
08-09-2008, 11:01 PM
Sven:

Welcome to the Group !

If you decide to get rid of it and the mould has a "square" lube groove like this one , I would like to buy it from you.

Best Regards,

Jerry

gllewis@pasadena.edu

http://www.fototime.com/926CCD023699C62/standard.jpg

Sven
08-09-2008, 11:01 PM
Ooops, I see I goofed. A .44-245KT is what I was sent (I'm at work and I just looked at the e-mail and picture of what he sent me). From the side of the box it has part #82043 and Lyman reference #429421 (I didn't notice that before). So I'm guessing from the reference # that it must be about the same bullets. I might as well keep what I got, then. I'm thinking it should still cast about a 250 gr boolit form WW alloy?

Sven
08-09-2008, 11:04 PM
Jerry, it looks to me to have a rounded lube groove.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/wecanoe/44-245KT.jpg

You guys post some nice pics!

HeavyMetal
08-09-2008, 11:08 PM
I've never had a bad RCBS mold!

The KT in the name suggests that it was "faithful" copy of Elmer Kieth's original boolit design.

As such it should be a keeper!

Lyman had a huge problem changing Elmer's design's around to make them easier to use / make. The round grease groove was the major change.

If you do a search on this site you'll see about 5 different 429421 mold designs.

In all honesty I think you got the best part of that deal, be happy!

HeavyMetal
08-09-2008, 11:10 PM
That grease groove looks square, get it in some better light!

Sven
08-09-2008, 11:17 PM
Well, thanks for the info. I'll agree with you -- I have a keeper.

Now to fire up the casting pot!

fatnhappy
08-09-2008, 11:24 PM
I bid on and won a Lyman 429421 on ebay the other day, but the guy sent me a RCBS .44-250KT. I've e-mailed back and forth with the seller and he's willing to refund my money if I send it back, but it sounds like he sent the 429421 to someone else and doesn't have it anymore. Apparently the other guy didn't complain. He had about 5 different boolit casting things going at once.

Anyway, how much difference is there between the two molds and the boolits they drop? I'm thinking of just keeping it. The .44-250KT went for about $10 higher than I paid for the 429421.

I'd keep the mould. If it doesn't work out for you just trade it for a 429421 on this forum. I'm sure you'll get a hit.

runfiverun
08-10-2008, 12:47 AM
the rcbs molds have the square grooves usually it is the lymans that have the rounded ones.
i have the 240 g/c type in rcbs. and it pours right where it need to be with just enough
tension to seat the g/c and to take lube without hardly scuffing the boolit.
and no it ain't for trade, sale, or borrow.

Heavy lead
08-10-2008, 03:23 AM
I'd rather have the RCBS myself, I have both, but generally prefer them to Lyman.

Lloyd Smale
08-10-2008, 07:57 AM
the rcbs molds are better quality then the lymans. As to the bullets if you would have got a 250kt you would have made out as out of the three its the best design. the 245 and the 429421 are about a toss up in my books. Id keep it if i were you.

leadeye
08-10-2008, 10:28 AM
The RCBS 44-250 KT is my most "user friendly" mold. It produces more good boolits regardless of errors that I may make during a casting sesion.

dwtim
08-10-2008, 12:17 PM
I believe the middle and the right labels are swapped in GLL's picture. My 429421s look like the middle bullet. Actually, that middle one looks more like the RCBS 44-245-SWC than it does the 429421. (A bit too square in the groove to be a modern Lyman mold.)

I don't see where there would be a loading difference between the 44-245-SWC, 44-245KT, or the 429421. The 44-250-K, however, is a bit longer. Speer loading data shows about a one grain decrease in maximum charges compared to Lyman's data for the 429421.

If your handles fit the mold, why worry about it? Considering the cost difference between the two brands, you got the better end of the deal.

GLL
08-10-2008, 05:11 PM
dwtim:

All is correct in the photo !

Note the 429421 in thread #4 is the 45 2.1 design Catshooter Group Buy mould not a Lyman/Ideal mould.

It should be noted that the Ideal/Lyman 429421 has gone through at least 5 changes since the first introduction.
The earliest RCBS 44-250-KT moulds had rounded lube groves from the Lachmiller heritage !

Jerry

Here is an additional look:
http://www.fototime.com/5D2B912208F49F5/standard.jpg

[L to R : Ballisti-Cast #1103, NEI #256, RCBS .44-250K, LYMAN .429-421. RCBS .44-250KT. Lyman .429-336]

GLL
08-11-2008, 11:46 AM
One more for comparison.

The 429421 is from a very early single cavity IDEAL mould that does not have vent lines.

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/663AE09580611F3/standard.jpg

dwtim
08-11-2008, 04:40 PM
I stand corrected!

Doc Highwall
08-11-2008, 05:10 PM
This is my Lyman 429421GP. I got it for nothing years back by fixing two moulds and the person told me I could have either one for saving them. He had loaned them to someone and they came back all scared up from the sprue plate etc. After I fixed this one I electrolysis plated it. I also did some others, after you are don using them you do not have to oil them. The nickel is .0001-.0002 thk.

GLL
08-11-2008, 05:25 PM
dwtim:

What is the cherry number stamped on your 429421 mould? Is it an IDEAL or LYMAN.

If possible I would appreciate seeing a photo of the bullet itself. It is interesting to see the evolution of the 429421 through the years ! :) :)

Jerry

dwtim
08-11-2008, 07:40 PM
GLL: pm sent.

Investigation revealed that I was wronger than I had originally estimated.

jleneave
08-14-2008, 05:38 PM
I have an older Lyman 4 cavity 429421 mold that I bought "new" old stock about a year ago. The lube grooves are not at all square, but rounded off. I can post pics if anyone wants to see. I was hoping for the squared lube grooves when I bought this mold. I would like to know what version/phase Lyman mold I have so that in the future when I buy another 429421 mold I know which one to stay away from so that I get the mold with the square lube grooves? Sorry if I am hi-jacking this thread. Thanks.

Jody

AnthonyB
08-14-2008, 07:26 PM
Jody, buy the RCBS 44-250K (not the 250KT) and don't look back if you want the closest thing to the original Keith design. Tony

jleneave
08-14-2008, 10:09 PM
Jody, buy the RCBS 44-250K (not the 250KT) and don't look back if you want the closest thing to the original Keith design. Tony

Thanks for the info. I have a RCBS 45-270-SAA mold that I use in my Ruger .45 Long Colt Blackhawk and I love that mold. Thanks again.

Jody

MT Gianni
08-14-2008, 11:32 PM
Jody, First see how it shoots. It may surprise you. Gianni

jleneave
08-15-2008, 05:14 AM
Jody, First see how it shoots. It may surprise you. Gianni

I have about 1500 bullets cast from this mold and about 100 rounds loaded but have not had a chance to shoot any of them as of yet. I believe that they are dropping a little under diameter from the mold though. When I run them through my Star lube sizer with a .430" size die installed they are not getting sized down, just lubed. Every now and again one will be sized a small amount at the base driving band only and they are just being sized on one side. I slugged the barrel and cylinder to my Ruger Super Blackhawk and the cylinders are running .431" to .4315" and the barrel slugged at .430". I am afraid that I am going to have a leading problem. I may step out on my make shift range in the back yard tomorrow and see how they do. I am thinking that I may have to figure out a way to get the bullets to drop a little bigger (.432" to .433") and try to hone out my sizer die to .432" to .4325". Opinions are very welcomed.

Jody

I hope I am not taking this thread over and I appologize to Sven, the original poster if I am.

Shuz
08-15-2008, 09:53 AM
FWIW--I have 8 Lyman 429421 moulds that I have "collected" over many decades of shooting the .44 magnum. There are differences among many of them, such as round grease grooves, square grease grooves and front driving bands of different lengths. I also recently was gifted an RCBS 082080 and an RCBS 082044 and have just begun playing with them. Here's my 2 cents....as long as the boolits from any of the moulds are sized to fit the throats of whatever .44 I'm using, and are lubed with either NRA 50/50, Felix WFL, Lars Red Carnauba, or Thompsons Blue Angel, I have not been able to determine any significant difference in performance accuracy or leading. However, I have found that the Lyman 429421's with the round grease groove drop outta whatever SC, DC or 4C mould much easier than ANY of the square groove designs. --Shuz

Sven
08-15-2008, 04:05 PM
I hope I am not taking this thread over and I appologize to Sven, the original poster if I am.

Nah, I've got my questions answered and it's been interesting to read. Keep it up.

jleneave
08-16-2008, 03:46 AM
I shot a few of these bullets today and just as I expected they leaded the barrel up pretty good. Mind you they were loaded fairly hot and lubed with Lars Carnuaba Red. The accuracy wasn't as bad as I expected from 25 yards off of sandbags. Just thought that I would let ya'll know how it went. Take care.

Jody