180-210gr bullets in .357 Maximum?

[jason280]

I recently picked up a CVA Scout Pistol, which came with a 14" .357 Magnum barrel and a brand new PTG .357 Maximum reamer. My plan is to ream the chamber to Maximum, and use it as 50-75 yard deer gun. I originally planned on using Hornady 180gr XTPs, but have been considering simply using hardcast lead in the 180-210gr range.

Any realistic difference in performance between a 180-210/215gr lead bullet on sub-200lb deer at 75 yards? I have a feeling 180s would be more than adequate, but I like big, heavy pieces of lead flying downrange. Would velocities with these bullets require gas checks? I haven't started reloading for mine yet, but would like to keep velocities in the 1500-1600fps range....not sure what I can expect with the .357 Max, but velocities should be respectable with a 14" barrel.

Thanks!

[CIC]

My experience is not exactly the same but I have been shooting 357 max out of a 17 inch handi rifle. I have used both the 180 XTP and 180 LBT flat nose bullets on deer. Both were propelled with lilgun. I would expect that you will easily surpas the 1500-1600 fps range if using 180 grain bullets. In carbine length 357 mag it is not unheard of to get that type of performance or possibly surpas it and if I am not mistaken your barrel is pretty long on the CVA. The XTPs are a great performer. Complete pass through with 1/2 dollar sized exit wounds at almost any reasonable range. Cast 180 grain LBT complete pass through from any angle. My opinion is that 180 grain is optimal for the 357 max. Good luck. I wished I had picked up one of those pistols when they were still available new.

[NSB]

The twist rate on your barrel will have some effect on how accurate the barrel is with heavier bullets. I've never had great luck with any bullet over 180g in my .357max Low Wall. I've actually gotten my best accuracy with 158g bullets. I have two full pages of load data where I've tested a lot of different powders and many different bullets. I ended up using Rel7 with either 158g JHP or 180g JHP bullets for my hunting loads. I've shot several deer with this caliber (and a whole lot more with just the plain old .357mag) and using either bullet in the MAX I've cleanly killed deer out past 100yds with no problem. I've got a new MGM bbl coming next Tues and I'm going to have to start testing bullets all over again. I got it with a 1:20 twist to take best advantage of the lighter bullets and hope to be able to use the same "good" loads I've already found for this caliber. FWIW, Rel7 and 4227 have been my best powders to date. Good luck.

[runfiverun]

I would try the 357 mag barrel as is before I got all worked up about doubling my brass costs.
the 357 will launch a good 180 at enough velocity to put a deer down out to 150yds no problem using H-110.

[NSB]

I would try the 357 mag barrel as is before I got all worked up about doubling my brass costs.
the 357 will launch a good 180 at enough velocity to put a deer down out to 150yds no problem using H-110.
Good advice given here. Although I own a .357max rifle, I've shot over fifty deer with a .357mag revolver and never lost a deer. My farthest shot with a handgun in .357mag was a measured 167 yards and it was a complete pass through (although this was an exception to the norm on penetration at longer distances). As far as brass costs go though, it's no big deal. Max brass isn't all that expensive and with a single shot you're not going to lose any. I have a bunch of Max brass that's been loaded ten times and still going.

[jason280]

I'm not too concerned about the brass cost, 100-150 pieces would last me a lifetime. I do agree that at least trying the .357 Mag would be the way to go....but what's the point of my brand new, shiny PTG reamer?? ;)

Of course, the other question remains, why am I even messing with a .358 caliber in the first place? I have other capable hand cannons in .41 Mag, .44 Mag, and .45 Colt....why even bother with the .357 at all? No idea, guess I just like odd calibers and odd guns.

[CIC]

No real down side to reaming. You can still shoot magnum loads. In my rifle, reaming it to max may have even improve accuracy with all loads from 38 spl up. Midsouth has Remington max brass on sale in case you need to grab some.

[NSB]

No real down side to reaming. You can still shoot magnum loads. In my rifle, reaming it to max may have even improve accuracy with all loads from 38 spl up. Midsouth has Remington max brass on sale in case you need to grab some.

That was not the case with my Browning Low Wall after being reamed to 357max. It would never shoot .38spl or 357mag as well as any other gun I have in those calibers. It shot the Max loads very well, but the shorter rounds just didn't perform to my satisfaction. The person who reamed my gun is the "expert" in the max caliber and does thousands of these conversions. Sometimes longer just isn't better....the chamber throat I mean :wink:

[CIC]

NSB I hate to hear that. I did a bunch of reading before I put my rifle under the knife. I did not read of anyone suffering accuracy issues after the conversion. I actually reamed mine myself. Rented a reamer and stuck the barel in a vise. Painted the rim with some white out to indicate when I was deep enough and liberally (I hate that word) applied cutting oil as I rotated the reamer by hand with a t handle wrench. I shoot more 38 in it than any thing.

[NSB]

Depending on how the original throat/leade is cut, you can end up with a funnel effect as the bullet jumps from the headspace on the rim to the lands. Also, the shorter cartridge can allow gas to pass by it before it gets to the lands and disrupt accuracy. You might have done well doing this, but many do not. I'm waiting for a new MGM barrel to arrive on Tues and try this new .357max with some mag and spc ammo to see if I get different results. TC and some others like to use funnels to guide the bullet to the lands....not the best way to do it. MGM uses a lot tighter tolerances and this may help. We'll see. In the meantime, I wouldn't just take it to the bank that using a reamer and lengthening the throat will allow you to shoot shorter cartridges accurately (I guess we need to define "accurate").

[CIC]

Accuracy for by rifle= sub MOA for all 3 three calibers. Hope you have better luck with the new barel.

[NSB]

One significant problem with a very long chamber is that the bullet isn't in the lands before the base leaves the case. Ideally you want the bullet to engage the rifling before the bullet base leaves the case mouth. This prevents gas from passing in front of the bullet which can cause gas cutting and erosion. Even under ideal conditions, shooting a .357" bullet in any chamber it would be rare to see it shoot sub 1 moa. That's less than an inch at 100 yds. I've been shooting competition for many, many years and in my experiance it's unusual for any .357 pistol cartridge shoot sub 1 moa. My Browning Low Wall will do it on occasion, but I have yet to see any gun chambered for the Max shoot sub 1moa with .357mag and .38Spl out of the same Max chamber. You certainly have a very rare and unique gun...not to mention the extraordinary shooting skill to make it happen. So, I'd again advise anyone to consider the unlikely possibility of expecting to get that kind of accuracy with 357mag and 38Spl out of a Max chamber. I'm not holding out any hope for those results even with my MGM barrel.

[r6487]

try a search on this site for 9x33r for a little info on heavy 357 boolits and for use of 358 rifle boolits on 357 cases. I followed those posts and shoot heavies thru an IMI timberwolf(10 shot pump 357 gun) with a 9mm can threaded on. 170 Sierra & 180 XTP ate the lightest I use anymore.

[r6487]

search this site for 9x33r for a little info on heavy 357 boolits and heavier 358 rifle boolits loaded in 357 cases.

[JohnH]

RCBS 35-200 I killed two deer with a modified 357 Handi Rifle with this boolit at about 1800 fps. It did the job nicely.

[jaysouth]

No real down side to reaming. You can still shoot magnum loads. In my rifle, reaming it to max may have even improve accuracy with all loads from 38 spl up. Midsouth has Remington max brass on sale in case you need to grab some.

"out of stock, no backorder"

Do not buy Jameson brass ever! The starline is good brass but the primer pockets will wear quickly with max loads

[gpidaho]

I shoot the NOE clone of the RCBS 35-200 in all my 357s. GP-100, Handi 357 and the Ruger 77-357. Pretty hard to beat in the 357s and my 35 Remington. Gp

[hc18flyer]

RCBS 35-200 I killed two deer with a modified 357 Handi Rifle with this boolit at about 1800 fps. It did the job nicely.

Reviving old thread- What load data are you using? I have a new Henry ss coming in .357 max and have this mold for my .358 Winchester. Thanks, hc18flyer