Marlin 45-70 Which Model to choose?

[JesterGrin_1]

There is the standard Marlin 45-70 and then the Guide Gun and the Cowboy Model. I do plan to shoot cast through them and trying to decide on the best gun to shoot lead BOOLITS accurately. I will place a scope on what ever rifle I choose. This is not something I am going to run out and do just looking for thoughts as research to a good rifle.

Thank You all in advance. :)

[kingstrider]

You forgot the 1895XLR so there are actually 4 choices. I'm partial to the stainless models and bought the guide gun but I'd suggest trying a few on for size.

[MtGun44]

My SS GG shoots the RCBS 405 FP GC very well. I get 2" or less at
100 with 57.0 W748. This is a low pressure load, suitable for trapdoors
according to Brian Pierce, runs about 1750 from my GG. Pretty potent
hunting load. A bit more than I want for just fun shooting, but tolerable
for practice and sight checking, etc.

Bill

[NickSS]

I got all three of the standard models (no XLR) and like them all. The standard sporting rifle I bought first about 25 years ago and the guide gun last about 4 years ago. I use the cowboy rifle for cowboy matches almost exclusively. The standard rifle has killed several elk and deer. The guide gun works well in heavy cover and packs a little easier than the standard rifle due to the four inch shorter barrel. All in all I really can;t say I like one more than the others as they all shoot well with several different loads and power levels. I did load some real bear stompers about 20 years ago. They were a 400 gr remington soft point and a full case of 4895. I had to sight the rifle in with a sand bag between me and the butt. I never used that load for bear but did use it on and elk. Killed one in its tracks at 90 yards.

[Ranch Dog]

In addition to all the above comments but in that you plan to be a "scope" shooter you might want to pay attention to the fit, how the firearm comes up to your shoulder and your eye levels on the sighting plain as the comb of the stocks are cut different on the rifle and carbine.

The rifle stocks, the 1895 and 1895XLR, have a slight rise that will aid the check fit and level the sighting plain for any sighting system. The 1895G, 1895GS, and Cowboy have a comb that favors open or peep sights.

I have all the carbine stocked Marlins and I have scopes with good eye relief mounted on them. Aquiring the sighting plain and target acquistion is slightly slower than on a standard rifle as you must insure that you have a good cheek to stock fit.

[Naphtali]

While I'm not alone in the universe, I don't have much company. I find straight grip M1895s to have significantly more apparent recoil than pistol grip versions. If you intend to shoot less moderate handloads, I recommend you shoot each type of grip to identify which recoils less for you.

Hope this helps.

[Just Duke]

I like all the Marlin 45-70's. I have two of the Stainless XLR's and can't be happier.
I would like the 45-70 cowboy model also.

[JesterGrin_1]

I guess I should have added that little fact that I do not plan on shooting light loads. Now maybe not a full house load for a Grizz but load that would be good out to say 200 yards and good to stop our little 400 pound and up South Texas Hogs in there tracks and for Deer.

I do like the XLR's but I am not to happy with the stock they have. :)

And after thinking about it even though I do so like the Cowboy Model I know that to shoot a stout load from one with its metal butt plate it might thump a bit lol. And to cut one to put a pad on just would not be right.

I will say I did have a Sharps that I sold to a lucky person here on the forum that would shoot full house black powder loads with a 535Gr Postell round and I must say after 100 of those with the metal butt plate on that Quigley it HURT lol. :)

[6pt-sika]

I purchased the 1895CB first and have shot nothing but cast bullets in it !

Then I bought a pair of the 1895G's . The first one I got was LNIB and I shoot jacketed in it . The second of the 1895G's is still NIB and was purchased for making into something else .

Later I got a 1895XLR and all I shoot in that one is the Hornady rubber tipped stuff now !

Later I picked up a 1978 vintage 1895 and I shoot only cast in this one (its micro grooved).

And just two months ago I purchased a brand new plain jane model 1895 that I have yet to shoot ! This one will most likely get fed cast after I kill a deer with the Winchester 300 grain HP factory load .

[6pt-sika]

And after thinking about it even though I do so like the Cowboy Model I know that to shoot a stout load from one with its metal butt plate it might thump a bit lol. And to cut one to put a pad on just would not be right.


The buttplate on the 1895CB's is actually hard rubber or plastic !

And the recoil with my Ranch Dog 460-425 loads is not to bad from the bench !

Now granted I cannot sit there and shoot 40 or 50 of them in a sitting . But a dozen to two dozen per range session is not bad at all !

[Just Duke]

In addition to all the above comments but in that you plan to be a "scope" shooter you might want to pay attention to the fit, how the firearm comes up to your shoulder and your eye levels on the sighting plain as the comb of the stocks are cut different on the rifle and carbine.

The rifle stocks, the 1895 and 1895XLR, have a slight rise that will aid the check fit and level the sighting plain for any sighting system. The 1895G, 1895GS, and Cowboy have a comb that favors open or peep sights.

I have all the carbine stocked Marlins and I have scopes with good eye relief mounted on them. Aquiring the sighting plain and target acquistion is slightly slower than on a standard rifle as you must insure that you have a good cheek to stock fit.

This is true. For mine I need the nifty leather lace on elevated cheek pads from Cabelas. Wifey can't even get up high enough to see through the red dot scope mounted on a scout mount and I have to do a chin weld.

[Just Duke]

Here is another type, a bolt on cheek rest to elevate you to the proper height
http://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/puma_accessories.html

[jjamna]

All the above comments are very good. I have a Cowboy Model. I got it for cowboy action shooting, however I have been hunting with it. If you are just going to target shoot with it the Cowboy will be fine. On the other hand if it is just for hunting I would look at the Guide Gun. It is much shorter and easier to handle. My cowboy while hunting, seems the barrel hung on every low hanging branch there was while hanging on my shoulder with a sling and it is pretty long to carry around in your hands all day. It does however shoot the Ranch Dog 350 Grain Cast Bullets very very good.

[Lloyd Smale]

if i was just going to hunt id get a guide gun. Preferably not ported. My heart would tell me a cowboy though as there much more cool. Ive got both and they both do great with cast bullets.

[beemerjimmy]

This is my first post. Has anyone shot a 500 gr. boolit in the Marlin Cowboy?

[6pt-sika]

This is my first post. Has anyone shot a 500 gr. boolit in the Marlin Cowboy?


Not me [smilie=1:

I think if you load a 405-425 grain bullet up fairly warm , thats gonna be about all the abuse you want to take on a reguler basis .

But , that is just my opinion :drinks:

[lawboy]

have shot close to 1000 525gr Lyman 457125 from my 1895CB. Mind you, I shoot light loads almost exclusively on 100-yard steel plates. 13.0 Trail Boss, 23.0 Reloader &, 28.0 3031, 23.0 4198, etc. The rifle handles these big bullets at low velocity very well. I have loaded the gun up to decent snort with the big bullets. IT HURT. The gun is too light and the plastic buttplate is a torture device at these load levels. Actually, when I first got the gun, I fired some stout loads and promptly drove the gun to my smith and had a decelerator pad fitted. While I was there I had him fit the buttstock to me for length, ended up cutting a little of the stock before fitting the pad. I degress. I like the gun a lot for what I do, light loads offhand with a Williams peep sight on steel plates all day. Usual day is 100 rounds on a 9-inch or 12-inch steel plate. On a good day I can go 95-99 hits out of 100. Still have not done a straight 100 ... maybe today!

[JesterGrin_1]

The 1895 SS looks like a good one. Not as short as the Guide Gun at 22in instead of the 18.5 and has a pistol grip stock with Ballard Rifling. Only wish it had a full length ammo tube. So what is a good cost for one of these gems?

Or how hard would it be to put a full length ammo tube on?

I like the Cowboy 1895 in 45-70 no I do not like it lol. It makes me drool but I could not see the Cowboy model with a scope lol. :)

[6pt-sika]

The 1895 SS looks like a good one. So what is a good cost for one of these gems?




I had my local dealer get me one of these about 2 months ago and I paid $515 plus tax and call in !

Now that is for a new rifle ! I imagine if you can find a decent used one you can shave 75 to 100 bucks off the price !

[jack19512]

It makes me drool but I could not see the Cowboy model with a scope lol. :)








Unfortunately some of us with old tired eyes don't have a choice. :mrgreen:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/1895cowboy.jpg

[Heavy lead]

While I'm not alone in the universe, I don't have much company. I find straight grip M1895s to have significantly more apparent recoil than pistol grip versions. If you intend to shoot less moderate handloads, I recommend you shoot each type of grip to identify which recoils less for you.

Hope this helps.

At least one more in your corner, each to their own, but the straight grips kick me like a mule, they look cool, but for me with a 45-70 I want a pistol grip.

[jjamna]

Jack19512
That rifle don't look bad at all with the scope on it. Matter of fact it looks pretty daggone good.

[Dale53]

My 1895 wears a scope (a Weaver "wide view") and I love it. The first time I shot it I was only wearing a "T" shirt. That sharp plastic buttplate marked me for a month! I made a little side trip to my wood working friend who installed a nice thick recoil pad. Man, was that a GOOD decision!

To heck with tradition! Now, it works like it was meant to work - hits where it looks and is comfortable to shoot.

Dale53

[jack19512]

Jack19512
That rifle don't look bad at all with the scope on it. Matter of fact it looks pretty daggone good.





Thanks, I did want to keep the scope small so I put a Nikon 4X on it. I really didn't plan on putting a scope on it to start with but it really helped me in seeing better when shooting during the process of working up a load for the rifle and with my eyes not so good anymore I just left it on. :-D

[JesterGrin_1]

It looks like there is no right or wrong lol. It also looks like no matter which Marlin a person may own they feel is a great rifle. So out of all this there is no real no 1 lol. The only thing that really does matter is that it is a Marlin. :)

I know it took awhile to sink in lol.

So let me ask the dirty ? lol. What is a good price for a Cowboy 45-70?

And for those of you that do have a Cowboy in 45-70 is the back of the stock flat so that one can put on a good pad?

Thank You everyone as I really do appreciate your replies. :) :) :)

On a personal side note I never ever in my life thought I would even mess with a Lever Action anything lol. It was all Semi Auto's or Bolt Actions lol. And now I have a Marlin 1894 SS in .44 mag and a 1894 in .357 Mag lol. But I think this is also just part of life. As a Kid you want faster and things that hit harder than anyone would need for anything lol. Then you come full circle and decide what is important. Which for me at this time is not speed or to be able to put 5 shots into a dime at 100 yards but more of real world function. And to this end you can get a Marlin in any caliber that one would need they are small so easy to handle and transport. They carry well as they are not real heavy and shoot good enough to take any game you wish. And they are reliable if taken care of like anything else. So even though this might be a bold thing to say I feel a Marlin is as good as a hunting rifle as anyone could hope to have. No I do not work for Marlin lol. :)

[gon2shoot]

This is my first post. Has anyone shot a 500 gr. boolit in the Marlin Cowboy?

Yup, shot two 500gr full house loads. If you need some, I'll proly never shoot the rest of these. [smilie=1:

[6pt-sika]

What is a good price for a Cowboy 45-70?

And for those of you that do have a Cowboy in 45-70 is the back of the stock flat so that one can put on a good pad?



I would say right now a good price for a 1895CB is most likely $650 although it might be more now !

As far as putting a pad on , I would try it without a pad first and see what you think ! Then if it recoils to much try a rubber slip on pad !

I've had my 1895CB for about 7 years now and I have always shot it the way it came from the factory ! For not having a pad it isn't as bad as you might think !

However when you get to the heavier bullets and start trying to push them pretty good then it starts getting a little touchy !

My old 1978 vintage 1895 has a semi crescent plastic buttplate and that one will get after you a little when I shoot my semi stiff loads with the Ranch Dog 460-425 bullet . It however is not bad at all with my stiff loads and the Ranch Dog 460-350 bullet !

[JesterGrin_1]

I would say right now a good price for a 1895CB is most likely $650 although it might be more now !

As far as putting a pad on , I would try it without a pad first and see what you think ! Then if it recoils to much try a rubber slip on pad !

I've had my 1895CB for about 7 years now and I have always shot it the way it came from the factory ! For not having a pad it isn't as bad as you might think !

However when you get to the heavier bullets and start trying to push them pretty good then it starts getting a little touchy !

My old 1978 vintage 1895 has a semi crescent plastic buttplate and that one will get after you a little when I shoot my semi stiff loads with the Ranch Dog 460-425 bullet . It however is not bad at all with my stiff loads and the Ranch Dog 460-350 bullet !



I went by my local Sportsmans Warehouse today and this is what I found.

The Blue Marlin 45-70 is $529.00 Same as the Standard Marlin with the 22in Barrel.
The Stainless Marlin Guide Gun 45-70 is $629.00

The Marlin Cowboy in 45-70 is $640.oo

Now here is the hard part lol. I like the Stainless Guide gun since well it is stainless and thus easier to take care of. But the Cowboy well it is the Cowboy lol nuf said there lol. But in the end I am looking for an accurate cast boolit gun. As I am not sure if the extra 5 1/2 in of tube on the Cowboy over the Guide will make a differance since I am going to use a scope. But I may loose some speed. I will use it out to and maybe a bit beyound 150 yards.
Everyones Thoughts? :-D:drinks:

[6pt-sika]

If I were you I would get the one that feels the best to you !

I have all three that you speak . Well my Guide Gun is blued but you understand !

For scope mounting you will find that the standard 1895 and the Cowboy are a little better for scope mounting .

On my Guide Gun types I always use Leupold bases and rings . And they always seemed a little high even with low rings . But eye relief positioning was better for me with the Leupold system then the others . Plus I am a Leupold person !

Anyway if possible look around at the local ranges and see if you can find folks that have what you are intrested in and see if they'll let you throw them up if scoped and see how they work for you !

[crabo]

Does anyone have a 45/70 with a straight stock and one with a pistol grip? Is there any difference in recoil between the two? Is the comb height the same?

Thanks,

[6pt-sika]

Does anyone have a 45/70 with a straight stock and one with a pistol grip? Is there any difference in recoil between the two? Is the comb height the same?

Thanks,

I have two with PG's and four with straight grips !

Personally I don't see alot of difference !

The biggest notice in recoil is for my vintage 1978 "New Model 1895" with the semi crescent plastic buttplate . That one will get into your shoulder after about 12 or 15 stiff 425 grain loads !

My 1895XLR is PG and has a nice THICK recoil pad ! It's pretty calm ! My 1895G has a pretty decent recoil pad and is ported (straight grip) . And the recoil of the 1895G is not bad either !
The 1895CB I have has no pad and is straight gripped . And until you start pounding with the heavy 425 grain loads it's not bad either ! Matter of fact you can shoot 3 shot groups with the semi stiff 425's sit it aside and shoot something else then go back to it and you can normally do about 20 of them in a range outing with no problem !
My standerd 1895 I have yet to shoot , but I do not anticipate it being to bad either ! As I have a 444 just like it and it's not bad !

[6pt-sika]

Is the comb height the same?


I've had scopes on the 1895XLR , 1895CB and 1895G .

The XLR and the CB seemed pretty close with a scope mounted as I used the same Leupold setup on all three .

But when I scope the 1895G it seems to me like the G's have a good bit lower comb or drop in the stock !

[JesterGrin_1]

If I were you I would get the one that feels the best to you !

I have all three that you speak . Well my Guide Gun is blued but you understand !

For scope mounting you will find that the standard 1895 and the Cowboy are a little better for scope mounting .

On my Guide Gun types I always use Leupold bases and rings . And they always seemed a little high even with low rings . But eye relief positioning was better for me with the Leupold system then the others . Plus I am a Leupold person !

Anyway if possible look around at the local ranges and see if you can find folks that have what you are intrested in and see if they'll let you throw them up if scoped and see how they work for you !


Going to the range to look around at first seems like a great idea lol. But around these parts for some odd reason when I show up with a Lever I am more of the odd ball than the norm lol. The only other people I have ever seen there other than myself were well how can I be nice lol. First time people that have purchased the Wall Mart Marlin in 30-30 with box ammo to see if they can hit the Target anywhere lol. Or the one time a year deer hunter and I say this loosly with there 30-30 to see if it still hits in near the same place lol.

The funny thing is when I got started in this Lever Action crazyness [smilie=1: people would stop to come over and ask me questions lol. And they would seem confused when I would tell them I am new and have no darn idea lol. I am just loading and trying to see what I get lol. But as I said when I got to the reloading part or oh my gosh the Cast Boolits part I lost them lol. They just wanted no part of that. Only ? was what FACTORY ROUNDS are you shooting lol. They did not like it when I told them I do not shoot factory rounds as I actually wish to hit what I am aiming at lol. And maybe I pushed this a bit more than I should have but any hunter worth there salt wishes for a clean kill and not to wound an animal.

So after all this long winded stuff is the reason I am asking all of the good people here. :)

[TXBRILL]

I recently got a 1895 cb and really like it. I fitted a limbsaver pad to it and yes with full house loads its quite a handful. I have shot jacketed and reduced loads in lead and am quite pleased with it accuracy.

just my 2 peso's

[CSH]

I've loaded for a couple of different Marlin 45-70's. Both had rifle length barrels, one with MG rifling and the other with Ballard. Accuracy was about the same with either. I originally thought I would shoot nothing but the hottest loads with the Marlin, but fortunately for me sanity won out. For deer and hogs a 400 - 420 grain pill at no more than 1400 fps will solve any problem you might encounter. As others have indicated, hotter loads (and I'm talking around 1800 fps here) will really get your attention and might not be something you'll want to do a lot. The additional velocity does help the trajectory, but still doesn't make it an ideal 200 yard cartridge (a 100 yard zero is 14" low at 200). I would compare loads at this level to shooting a 12 gauge single shot (along the lines of an old H&R) with 3" magnum buckshot. Getting rid of the hard plastic buttplate in lieu of something softer helps a lot.

If I were buying one exclusively for hunting, I would probably opt for the Guide gun, even though I think the standard rifle looks better scoped. But then again, if I had the money, I would just get one of each. You can't do wrong regardless of which you choose. :-D

[JesterGrin_1]

Okay this might be a DUMB ? but lol. I found a shop that has a few well three 1895 Marlin Guide Gun in stainless for $529.00 used. The ? is it worth the $100.00 savings to take a chance on a used Marlin over a new one?

[jack19512]

The ? is it worth the $100.00 savings to take a chance on a used Marlin over a new one?





My opinion is yes, if the rifle looks like it has been taken care of. When you buy new you are paying for that new.

[MT Gianni]

There are a few of them that have never had more than a box of shells run through them because the owner thinks it's loud and kicks.

[6pt-sika]

Okay this might be a DUMB ? but lol. I found a shop that has a few well three 1895 Marlin Guide Gun in stainless for $529.00 used. The ? is it worth the $100.00 savings to take a chance on a used Marlin over a new one?


If they have three nice used 1895GS rifles in stock for $529 each ! I would go in there wiling to pay that and then try to get it a little cheaper !

Of the two 1895G's I have the first one was purchased LNIB . The dealer I got it from had sold it earlier to a friend who had taken it out and shot it 12 times to sight it in and then never fired it again ! I think he traded it back in for an 1895M anyway I got this rifle in a partial trade and I figure I got it for about $75 less then what he had on a brand new one and was perfectly satisfied [smilie=1:

[BABore]

Given a choice on the most accurate model for shooting cast, I would be looking to the used market.

#1 would be a first year "BO" serial numbered 1895 with the real 8 groove Ballard rifling. Rumor has it that the barrels came from douglas. I managed to pick one up last year and it is an absolute tack driver with everything I've tried in it. The rifling depth is just a hair over 0.004" as opposed to the 0.003" depth on the current Ballard and older MG rifling.

#2 would be a Marlin 1895 LTD IV. I know several who own them and they are about the nicest shooting and looking Marlins out there.

[6pt-sika]

#1 would be a first year "BO" serial numbered 1895 with the real 8 groove Ballard rifling. Rumor has it that the barrels came from douglas. I managed to pick one up last year and it is an absolute tack driver with everything I've tried in it. The rifling depth is just a hair over 0.004" as opposed to the 0.003" depth on the current Ballard and older MG rifling.



I already had my 1978 vintage 1895 that looks just like the one from 1972 but is micro grooved !

Anyway a couple months ago I was after a "BO" seriel numbered one that was on Gunbroker . The condition was a bit rougher then I really wanted and I eventually let myself be outbid ! But I sure wish I had run it up just a bit more !

[BABore]

I already had my 1978 vintage 1895 that looks just like the one from 1972 but is micro grooved !

Anyway a couple months ago I was after a "BO" seriel numbered one that was on Gunbroker . The condition was a bit rougher then I really wanted and I eventually let myself be outbid ! But I sure wish I had run it up just a bit more !

I lucked into one that is 90+% condition for five bills. The owner only lived about 50 miles away too.

Beware of just the "BO" serial #. Brian Pierce wrote an article in either "Handloader" or "Rifle" mag about his BO. Said it had a MG bbl. Several readers wrote into him about how theirs were Ballard rifled. He replied that he never saw one like that. It stood out to me cause I picked up mine the same day I got the latest mag with his new comments in it.

[JesterGrin_1]

The three I found were at cabelas in Buda Texas. I know this is not a reg gun shop so should I trust a rifle from them?

[6pt-sika]

Beware of just the "BO" serial #. Brian Pierce wrote an article in either "Handloader" or "Rifle" mag about his BO. Said it had a MG bbl. Several readers wrote into him about how theirs were Ballard rifled. He replied that he never saw one like that. It stood out to me cause I picked up mine the same day I got the latest mag with his new comments in it.

It's my understanding that they made the original design "New Model 1895" from 1972 until 1979 and in that time it was ballard rifled in 1972 ONLY , then in 1973 and 1974 they had 8 groove Micro rifling , followed in 1975 to 1979 with the more standerd 12 groove Micro rifling !

Then in 1980 they came out with the pistol grip version that is pretty much the same as what is manufactured now !

[JesterGrin_1]

Okay and where is the hay stack and are you sure there is a needle in it lol.

I am sure the new Marlin is a good rifle. So why go on a wild goose chase. :)

[6pt-sika]

Okay and where is the hay stack and are you sure there is a needle in it lol.

I am sure the new Marlin is a good rifle. So why go on a wild goose chase. :)

I'm not sure I follow this :???:


If you're making reference to the new models that started in 1972 , there is no reason unless you are somewhat of a collector like I seem to have become .

I have about decided to get a Marlin 1895 that was made in each year of the first model which started in 1972 and stopped in 1979 !

I have also taken about the same outlook on the First and Second Model 444's . They were made from 1965 until 1975 . With both models being made in 1971 !

[JesterGrin_1]

Sorry 6pt-sika what I meant was that I was not looking for a collectable rifle or something hard to find. Just a new off the shelf Marlin lol. Or close to new. And by the way THIS FORUM IS KILLING ME LOL. I just had to go to Cabela's today as I had a $150.00 certificate if I purchased something over $500.00 so they had a 1894 SS Marlin Guide Gun for $520.00 so I got that and then had the certificate of which I purchased powder and bullets lol. I think it was a good day but I could be wrong lol. At any rate I have a new toy lol.

[6pt-sika]

I lucked into one that is 90+% condition for five bills. The owner only lived about 50 miles away too.

Beware of just the "BO" serial #. Brian Pierce wrote an article in either "Handloader" or "Rifle" mag about his BO. Said it had a MG bbl. Several readers wrote into him about how theirs were Ballard rifled. He replied that he never saw one like that. It stood out to me cause I picked up mine the same day I got the latest mag with his new comments in it.


You wouldn't mind telling me which issue that article was in ? I would like to read it ! I may very well have it in my pile here somewhere , but I don't remmember reading it ! And lately I have been reading most of the stuff Pierce writes !

I actually got some informative info from a couple of his articles for loading cast in the 32-20 and 32 MAG !

[6pt-sika]

Or close to new.

The 1895G I have that I shoot from time to time was purchsed used ! It was LNIB when I got it ! It had been shot maybe 20 times tops before I got it !

Now it's been shot maybe 200 times and still looks like new :-D


I should think the used 1895GS that you said they have at Cabellas should be fine also !

[JesterGrin_1]

The 1895G I have that I shoot from time to time was purchsed used ! It was LNIB when I got it ! It had been shot maybe 20 times tops before I got it !

Now it's been shot maybe 200 times and still looks like new :-D


I should think the used 1895GS that you said they have at Cabellas should be fine also !

Thank You now the problem is that I now have 300Gr Rem BOOLITS and H322 powder and Fed Mag primers and need to figure out a load before hunting season until Ranch Dog gets some more of those 350Gr molds in. :)

[6pt-sika]

Here's a load I've used with the Barnes 300 grain "Original" bullet in my 1895G and 1895XLR .

The 300 Barnes and 63 grains of H335 . Now I realize thats not the bullet you have ! However that powder charge worked pretty well with the 300 grain Barnes , Sierra and Hornady bullets in my rifles . So I "assume" it might very well do the same with the 300 grain Remington also !

He y what did you purchase today ? A Model 1894 or a Model 1895 ?

[6pt-sika]

I don't use magnum primers in my 45-70 loads either ! Just plain old CCI200's [smilie=1:

[JesterGrin_1]

Here's a load I've used with the Barnes 300 grain "Original" bullet in my 1895G and 1895XLR .

The 300 Barnes and 63 grains of H335 . Now I realize thats not the bullet you have ! However that powder charge worked pretty well with the 300 grain Barnes , Sierra and Hornady bullets in my rifles . So I "assume" it might very well do the same with the 300 grain Remington also !

He y what did you purchase today ? A Model 1894 or a Model 1895 ?

Marlin 1895 45-70 Guide Gun in Stainless. And darn I have H322 not the H335. :( Well I have 1000 Fed 215 Mag Primers and 0 Fed 200's lol.

[6pt-sika]

Man I gotta start reading the ENTIRE post before I reply :roll:

If I were you and planned on using H322 .

I would start with 56 grains and go up to 60 grains in one grain increments !

Load you up about a dozen with 56 grains and get the rifle sighted in (I assume it will be scoped) . Then load three of each other charge weight and work your way up looking for pressure signs !

My OLD Hornady book shows max for H322 at 60.6 for 2000 FPS in a 22" barrel !

[JesterGrin_1]

Man I gotta start reading the ENTIRE post before I reply :roll:

If I were you and planned on using H322 .

I would start with 56 grains and go up to 60 grains in one grain increments !

Load you up about a dozen with 56 grains and get the rifle sighted in (I assume it will be scoped) . Then load three of each other charge weight and work your way up looking for pressure signs !

My OLD Hornady book shows max for H322 at 60.6 for 2000 FPS in a 22" barrel !

This is what the web site shows.
Hodgdon Powder Company
Cartridge Load Recipe Report - 8/16/2008
data.hodgdon.com 45-70 Government (Lever Actions)*
Load Type: Rifle Powder: H322
BW: 300

Cartridge Information
Case: Winchester Barrel Length: 24"
Twist: 1:20" Trim Length: 2.100"
Primer: CCI 200

45-70 Government (Lever Actions)*
Cartridge Load Data Starting Loads

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Maximum Loads

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Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
300 GR. SIE HP H322 .458" 2.525" 57.0 2002 21,400 CUP 63.0C 2252 32,600 CUP

NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

[6pt-sika]

Be aware , in my old Hornady book they show 56 grains of H322 as being 1800 FPS in the 22" Marlin barrel and 2000 FPS with 60.6 grains as I said before .

However if you run your loads over the chrony out of that 18.75" barrel it's gonna more then likely be about 150 FPS less at each charge weight !

Now with that being said I have literally KNOCKED the FIRE out of some deer with loads that were in the 1500 FPS range with 45-70's !

I shot a big 6 pointer one day at about 21 yards with the 330 grain Gould HP bullet and a charge that should have had the bullet going about 1500 FPS . I was sitting 22 feet up in a tree when the deer walked up and at the shot it looked as if the deer was slammed to the ground !

[JesterGrin_1]

Yes this is why I decided on the miniscule lol 300 Gr Rem HP as I felt since I am in south TEXAS the only think I am shooting at is Deer and Hogs and thus went with the 45-70 to do a better job mainly on the hogs as they do and can run 400 pounds and larger lol and also of which I could be wrong picked the 300Gr so it would shoot pretty flat out to 150 yards. :)

And with the 300Gr it may not punish me as bad to shoot it lol. I asked for loads so I could keep my try shots down a bit and not shoot up 200 rounds to find a good round for the gun.

My 1894 Marlin in .44 Mag took me over 500 rounds to find a good one lol. But it was fun and the rifle is now broken in lol.



Be aware , in my old Hornady book they show 56 grains of H322 as being 1800 FPS in the 22" Marlin barrel and 2000 FPS with 60.6 grains as I said before .

However if you run your loads over the chrony out of that 18.75" barrel it's gonna more then likely be about 150 FPS less at each charge weight !

Now with that being said I have literally KNOCKED the FIRE out of some deer with loads that were in the 1500 FPS range with 45-70's !

I shot a big 6 pointer one day at about 21 yards with the 330 grain Gould HP bullet and a charge that should have had the bullet going about 1500 FPS . I was sitting 22 feet up in a tree when the deer walked up and at the shot it looked as if the deer was slammed to the ground !

[6pt-sika]

When I bought my 1895M I started loading it with the Nosler 300 grain Partition . And I wanted to at least equal the printed velocity for the 350 grain factory load . Then they said on the box that the factory load would do 2100 FPS with the 350 grain bullet . And when I got loading data for the round it also showed some quick velocities .

Anyway in that 1895M I ran my loads a couple grains over max and was never able to equal what they said with my little short 18.75" barrel . I think they had been using a 22 or 24 inch pressure barrel to collect their data .

[felix]

With the 215 primer, knock 5 percent for all loads shown the book. Not talking safety here, but expectations. This is especially true without a case full, and even more so with a faster powder. Even worse is the Win mag. ... felix

[JesterGrin_1]

When I bought my 1895M I started loading it with the Nosler 300 grain Partition . And I wanted to at least equal the printed velocity for the 350 grain factory load . Then they said on the box that the factory load would do 2100 FPS with the 350 grain bullet . And when I got loading data for the round it also showed some quick velocities .

Anyway in that 1895M I ran my loads a couple grains over max and was never able to equal what they said with my little short 18.75" barrel . I think they had been using a 22 or 24 inch pressure barrel to collect their data .

You are correct they cheat lol.
What some would call publish the unobtainium lol.

[6pt-sika]

Yes this is why I decided on the miniscule lol 300 Gr Rem HP .

Don't understimate all the 300 grainers !

As I said I have never worked with the Remington 300 grain offering .

But Nosler's 300 grain Partition IS the BEST bullet you can get bar none in my opinion ! Well in a jacketed bullet .

My original intention for that bullet was some of the big Black Bears in mortheast PA , although I never had the oppurtunity !

If I were going to Idaho or Montana to hunt elk in the black woods and was going to carry my 1895G that Nosler bullet would be the one I'd use . But as I say alot , thats my "opinion" [smilie=1:

[JesterGrin_1]

Oh I fully understand opinion but a few can back up what they say from personal FACT. So to this end with the 45-70 I am Shultz lol. I know nothing lol.

But now my .44 Mag 1894 SS I have that down pat but then again maybe not. But I found what works for me lol. :) 44 Man helped me a ton with the .44 Marlin.

[JesterGrin_1]

With the 215 primer, knock 5 percent for all loads shown the book. Not talking safety here, but expectations. This is especially true without a case full, and even more so with a faster powder. Even worse is the Win mag. ... felix

expectations? Please explain.

[BABore]

You wouldn't mind telling me which issue that article was in ? I would like to read it ! I may very well have it in my pile here somewhere , but I don't remmember reading it ! And lately I have been reading most of the stuff Pierce writes !

I actually got some informative info from a couple of his articles for loading cast in the 32-20 and 32 MAG !

The original article was in "Handloader" No. 248, August 2007. The later comments or correction was in "Handloader" No. 253, June-July 2008, page 82.

[felix]

lol ... felix

[JesterGrin_1]

lol ... felix

LOL What?

[captainkirk]

The 1895 SS looks like a good one. Not as short as the Guide Gun at 22in instead of the 18.5 and has a pistol grip stock with Ballard Rifling. Only wish it had a full length ammo tube. So what is a good cost for one of these gems?

Or how hard would it be to put a full length ammo tube on?

I like the Cowboy 1895 in 45-70 no I do not like it lol. It makes me drool but I could not see the Cowboy model with a scope lol. :)

There are some threads on the full-length tube over at marlinowners.com, I think Clements will do it also but it might be more than you want to pay - quality work though...

Pretty much all you do is order the "cowboy" tube and then fit it to your gun, cutting it as necessary and fitting a dovetail groove near the end of your barrel. You also need to fill in the existing dovetail. Not much if you know what you are doing, I do not posess those skills or tools.

captainkirk

[JesterGrin_1]

There are some threads on the full-length tube over at marlinowners.com, I think Clements will do it also but it might be more than you want to pay - quality work though...

Pretty much all you do is order the "cowboy" tube and then fit it to your gun, cutting it as necessary and fitting a dovetail groove near the end of your barrel. You also need to fill in the existing dovetail. Not much if you know what you are doing, I do not posess those skills or tools.

captainkirk

Thank You for the info. Yes the only real pain in the can that I notice is that one would have to fill the existing dove tail and make a new one. But I can get around making the new one just my makeing a clamp as would be on an old Winchester. But I would still have to fill that ugly dove tail and the ones you just drive in just do not look right lol. It is like hey what happend there lol.

[captainkirk]

Thank You for the info. Yes the only real pain in the can that I notice is that one would have to fill the existing dove tail and make a new one. But I can get around making the new one just my makeing a clamp as would be on an old Winchester. But I would still have to fill that ugly dove tail and the ones you just drive in just do not look right lol. It is like hey what happend there lol.

The clamp idea sounds good. As far as filling the existing dovetail I have seen a few that were done right and filed to a round contour and you hardly knew they were there. The old square "sight filler block" is enough to bother me...

[PatMarlin]

My 1895 was feeling lonely so I took em out for some air. I don't think you would be unhappy with one like him.

And my wifes BLR in 308.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well today I fired 35 Rounds through my 1895 Marlin GG in Stainless with the factory but pad. And I have to say this thing THUMPS lol. And my shoulder is none too happy lol.

But the plus side to all this pain is lol. That I think I am getting close to a load.

I tried the following.

Rem 300Gr Jacketed hallow points with 57Gr of H-322 and Fed 210 Primer

58Gr

59Gr

60Gr which shot the best with about a 2 by 3in group at 100 yards. But I am going to try and improve that. :)

So since the 60Gr of H-322 shot the best I am going to work around it. So my nest loads will be in half grain sizes. Starting with 59.5Gr then 60.0Gr for giggles 60.5Gr and 61.0Gr to see what I come up with. :)

If the good people here like I will keep this information updated with what I find?

But before I go I have a ? lol. I have heard and have read that there should be BOOLIT drop so this is where I am confused. At 50 yards the rounds were 21/2in high but at 100 yards they are 3in high? I read I know reading can hurt ones brain lol. But if 50 yards is center then at 100 yards it should drop about 4.5in but I do not see that? And no sorry I do not have a Chrono. :(

[BABore]

Your boolit is still rising to meet the sights. If you zero to be dead on at 100 yards, you will have a 7-10" drop at 200 yards.

If you haven't worked much with high end loads in the Marlin action, do be aware that they do not exhibit common pressure signs like a front lockup bolt gun. Flattened primers and hard extraction is way over the pressure limit. Some recommend measuring case head expansion and limiting it to no more than 0.0004". This however is not foolproof. A good indicator of high pressure is case length growth. More than 2-3 thou per firing can mean your too hot. Even this can be deceiving due to chamber conditions and any lubricant present. Your current load is well within book standards, but thought you should be aware.

[PatMarlin]

A good indicator of high pressure is case length growth. More than 2-3 thou per firing can mean your too hot. Even this can be deceiving due to chamber conditions and any lubricant present. Your current load is well within book standards, but though you should be aware.

THat is a good tip BAB. Tip of the month... :mrgreen:

[JesterGrin_1]

Hodgdon Powder Company
Cartridge Load Recipe Report - 8/17/2008
data.hodgdon.com 45-70 Government (Lever Actions)*
Load Type: Rifle Powder: H322
BW: 300

Cartridge Information
Case: Winchester Barrel Length: 24"
Twist: 1:20" Trim Length: 2.100"
Primer: CCI 200

45-70 Government (Lever Actions)*
Cartridge Load Data Starting Loads

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Maximum Loads

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Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
300 GR. SIE HP H322 .458" 2.525" 57.0 2002 21,400 CUP 63.0C 2252 32,600 CUP

NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS


I am going by this info. And from this information and from the 32,600 cup at 63 grains I do not think I can even put enough powder in the cartridge to worry about going above the 42.000 cup of which I have read that this rifle can take advantage of.

As it looks right now I will be a full grain less than the 63Gr Max.

But if I am wrong please let me know?

[JesterGrin_1]

One more ? since I will only be shooting the brass in this Marlin should I continue to full length resize them after they have been fire formed or just neck size?

I just ask since the only other thing I have reloaded for is a Sharps with black powder.

[BABore]

Yes, I knew you were still under max. Thought I would just hang that info out there cause it's seldom mentioned.

I have just neck sized 45-70 brass for my Marlin's by backing off the sizer and extending the decapping pin. You can get one, maybe two firings before they get rather snug. The hotter you load, the more often you have to go back and FL resize them. Unless you have a big chamber in your Marlin, I wouldn't bother with it.

[JesterGrin_1]

Yes, I knew you were still under max. Thought I would just hang that info out there cause it's seldom mentioned.

I have just neck sized 45-70 brass for my Marlin's by backing off the sizer and extending the decapping pin. You can get one, maybe two firings before they get rather snug. The hotter you load, the more often you have to go back and FL resize them. Unless you have a big chamber in your Marlin, I wouldn't bother with it.

Okay I will keep to full length resize then. Thank You.

But I am loaded up with some more test rounds but the range is closed today lol. And my shoulder well it is a tad sore lol. I am going to go out and get a pad for it lol.

[Dale53]

After the first time I fired my 1895 45/70 Marlin many years ago (I had only a "T" shirt on, and I drew blood:twisted:) I immediately had the sharp plastic butt plate removed and installed a good recoil pad. That helped things a LOT.

In fact, regardless of what level of loads I intended to shoot, a good recoil pad, in my view, is a must.

This is a superb rifle that gives me 1.5" groups at 100 yards with the Lee 340 gr cast bullet. I also have a supply of Lyman 457322 HP cast up to try as soon as my vision gets better. I believe that classic old bullet to be about as good a deer bullet as has ever been made for the 45/70.

Dale53

[JesterGrin_1]

After the first time I fired my 1895 45/70 Marlin many years ago (I had only a "T" shirt on, and I drew blood:twisted:) I immediately had the sharp plastic butt plate removed and installed a good recoil pad. That helped things a LOT.

In fact, regardless of what level of loads I intended to shoot, a good recoil pad, in my view, is a must.

This is a superb rifle that gives me 1.5" groups at 100 yards with the Lee 340 gr cast bullet. I also have a supply of Lyman 457322 HP cast up to try as soon as my vision gets better. I believe that classic old bullet to be about as good a deer bullet as has ever been made for the 45/70.

Dale53

Dale I feel your pain lol. All I had on was a T Shirt. With the stock hard rubber pad lol. I think Marlin put it on just for looks lol.

[JesterGrin_1]

Today I found out lol.

The 300Gr Rem J/HP the best group I can get with it is about a 2in by 3in group. After all of the loads I have fired with this Bullet I think it just does not have enough bore ride to stabilize it. Some may have better luck. But I give lol. Too much powder and shooting with not much in the way of improvement. And I started with the 300Gr Rem J/HP from 56G all the way through 60.5Gr of H-322 and the 60.5Gr did the best of the lot.

Now onto the Hornady 350Gr J/RNSP with 53Gr of H-322 and a Fed Primer 210 gave me a group 1in wide by 3/4 Tall. So I think I am going to stick to this load.

I think with this load I can take anything that walks and even some that don't lol. :) Which means I feel pretty safe with this load. But if I am wrong please by all means point it out.

All shots were done at 100 yards with a Marlin 1894 GS in 45-70 with Remington Brass. And all reloading was done on a Lee Classic Cast Turret Press with the Lee Die set.:)

Hodgdon Powder Company
Cartridge Load Recipe Report - 8/24/2008
data.hodgdon.com 45-70 Government (Modern Rifles)*
Load Type: Rifle Powder: H322
BW: 350

Cartridge Information
Case: Winchester Barrel Length: 24"
Twist: 1:20" Trim Length: 2.100"
Primer: CCI 200

45-70 Government (Modern Rifles)*
Cartridge Load Data Starting Loads

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Maximum Loads

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Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
350 GR. HDY JRN H322 .458" 2.540" 52.0 1898 25,800 CUP 57.0C 2143 41,100 CUP

NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS