Softer and harder wheel weights

[Don1357]

I lucked out today, found a place where I was able to pick a bucket full of wheel weights. A bit over a third of them seem to be lead.

Here is the crux: Some are definitely lead, unpainted, dull lead color, soft, don't clink but sound dull, and cuts easily. There are others that also don't clink, but scraping them with a box cutter is a tad harder. Would this be just a different lead alloy and if so, should I sort them?

[Rcmaveric]

I don't. No real way to know the actual chemistry of the weights and it can very. Age also affect hardness and melting it down and turning it into ingots will restore it to its original hardness of either harder or softer. I just sort the stick-ons from the clip-ons and then let it average out by batch. I have gotten the big ones before and some where hard to cut and would make a clinking noise and the older used looking ones would bend easily then break. They all make good bullets.

[Grmps]

Look for writing on the WW if it says FE (iron) or ZN (zinc) toss em. If you can cut/clip them with a pair of side cutters then it is lead. The WW usually are between 9 an 13 bhn.
Some are painted and some have a plastic coating (that I've seen).

[Don1357]

That's the thing, besides the clearly market FE and ZN ones, there are also unmarked zinc and iron ones.

I figure I'll keep on doing a first sorting pass at the obvious lead/steel/zinc, then a sanity check on each pile.

Are there any other metals besides lead/iron/zinc, or can I assume that if it ain't lead nor iron that it must be zinc?

[Don1357]

Why do you separate the lead stick-ons from the lead clip-ons?

[Beagle333]

The stick-ons are much softer. They will run just slightly harder than pure lead. I can use stick-ons in my black powder guns. Clip-ons are going to be about 4-5 bhn harder than the stick-ons.

[Dusty Bannister]

Here is a stickie on WW. It even has pictures to help you figure things out.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?139839-Guide-to-Hand-Sorting-Wheel-Weights

[Rompin Ruger]

I "scored" 4 or so 5 gal buckets full of OLD WW some 3 yrs ago from an older chap having to give up shooting and casting....

With Dusty's help, I sat down and have crimped with side cutters EVERY unit inthose buckets to be sure they were lead...

Hardness does seem to vary a good bit depending on maker I suppose and/or when made...

I'm still fluxing, smelting and making ingots of those 5 buckets of COWW.

I had gone to a local tire shop where I used to live and bought a 3 gal bucket of WW and in there, not but a handful would score with cutters... I gave them all to a shop that did some work on mounting tires along with auto repairs. He had his boys sit there and sort according to size and put in containers for future use...

Lead crazy people, as if a ww thrown along the road is worse then the rest of the crud from highways is well, "interesting" :)

[lightman]

Congratulations on the Score!

There is a good sticky about sorting wheelweights that is well worth the time to read. The pictures alone are worth a look. The only method that I use is just looking at each weight and using a pair of diagonal cutters, know as dykes by electricians, to cut any suspect weight. You don't have to actually cut it into, just see if you can make a mark. You can't cut the steel weights and can barely make a mark on the zinc ones. After just a little while of looking at and handling weights, you develop a feel for the non lead ones, and it actually goes pretty quick. There are also some weights made of a composite material that look like plastic that are useless to us.

If you miss a steel weight it won't hurt anything as they will not melt at the temps that we work at. Missing a zinc weight is not a disaster either. You get a second chance to catch it as it floats to the top of your melt. Also, one zinc weight won't ruin a batch of lead. I strive for no zinc in my alloy, but you can get away with a small percent.

Some of the weights are painted or coated to reduce corrosion on fancy wheels and appear to be harder. Also, some of the different shape weights seem to be harder. BNE, a member here, has access to test equipment for annalizing metal alloy and has posted 2 excellent stickys on the composition of both stick on and clip on weights. The composition on the weights is very consistent, despite the fact that some of them feel harder.

I personally separate the clip on weights from the stick on weights. The stick on weights are softer, close to pure. If kept separate, you always have the option of blending them with other alloy.

[Rompin Ruger]

Lightman, I find you folks here are often light years ahead of me in many content areas! :)

I'd gotten into researching heavily on my own and found some conflicting reports on other sites that suggested that different companies making cheap, then considered disposable COWW/SOWW used whatever was at hand in varied ratios... ergo, my comment about different hardnesses---depending

I crimped (used your side dyke method to make a cut mark) and my observation was my hardness tester showed different ingots came out a bit harder then most suggested, as did my 452 bullets. As for what I call CRIMPING each one goes, fatigue could have been a huge factor doing each one... and my perceptions are not why I said hardness varies, but it seemed observable... :)

The good thing is that each of us can find whatever data we want to go with/believe in and act accordingly-- I appreciate your heads up but I took the German approach and did each unit...tiring, but I didn't want any corrupted alloy.

You can buy Zinc ingots to harden alloys so it must melt... but now I'm casting mostly Round balls for MZ and using pure bought certified ROTO lead still creates imperfections I'm not used to seeing with alloy... alas, someday, someone is going to score big as my adopted state isn't the best for getting out to hunt or shoot! so I Have much sitting around unused...of the COWW ingots...

Thanks again for your insights...

[lightman]

My reply was for the OP, although I did not really reference it that way. But congratulations on your score too. Four or five buckets is a nice score in anyones book!

There are lots of ways to sort weights and most of them work ok. I also check each weight. My method involves dumping them out in a large wooden box, 2ft X 4ft X 8 inches so they are easy to spread out. Then I pick through them. I start with the trash like the tire stickers, value stems, broken wheel studs, brake pads, ect. Then I usually target the stick on weights since they are very easy to spot. Then I target the steel weights. All of the steel weights that I have seen have a very distinctive look and are also easy to spot. This leaves me with the lead and zinc. I pick up each weight and look at it. Any suspect weight get set aside for me to cut. There are a few lead weights that are made just like the zinc weights and a few of these will make me check them out a little closer. After a short while you can tell most of the zinc weights by look and feel. The weight difference is enough that I can usually tell. They also have a different look. I also notice any scaring on the weight. Lead is easy to scar while the zinc is much tougher. Unfortunately, stick on weights are also made of steel and zinc. They seem to be much easier to spot.

I too have noticed a few that seem to be harder but the data that I have seen points to the alloy being pretty consistent. Older wheelweights had more alloy in them than newer weights but I'm not sure when the change happened. Its possible that an occasional older weight appears in a batch, but I think the difference is more of how they were made or how they are coated. I don't know what % of alloy that the older weights contained for sure. The older Lyman books list some data but I'm not sure how they arrived at those numbers. I do know that my bullets cast with older weights weigh different than bullets cast from newer weights. I need to send off a sample for testing while I still have some older weights.

You mentioned research. A couple of interesting sites besides Castboolits are The Cast Bullet Association Forum and The Los Angeles Silhouette Club.

Personally I would not buy zinc to harden my alloy. We as casters try to avoid zinc. It is harder but it hurts the way the bullet fills out. It will melt but its quite a bit higher than lead, something like 160º higher.

Wheelweights are a pain. They are dirty, require sorting, are getting harder to find and you have the waste of the clips. But they are still my go to choice. I've sorted more than 4000# in the last 3 years.

[Yodogsandman]

BNE has a sticky that shows the alloy contents of different stick on WWs.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?229666-Stick-On-WW-XrF-Data

[runfiverun]

I just drag them on the cement if they are in doubt..
if I still ain't sure I just toss it.
after a bit you can feel lead drag, zinc scrape, and steel glide over the concrete.

[Rompin Ruger]

Good stuff all! Thanks! We all do what we find works, don't we? :)

Here and the LA Club were where I did most of my research.

When I said old, I meant OLD...this guy I got them from mentioned he had them at least 15 yrs which is now 19 yrs ago...

Clips were filthy rusted and I flux with sawdust several times and pull off dross, then leave my smelting pot covered with it to keep the more volatile alloys from dissipating... Untill I'm sure it's all clean and ready to make ingots... I have enough ingot molds to empty the pot I got from the guy but I fill it with WW then skim clips and do NOT keep adding...

Alas, there are many ways to skin a cat and learning all your methods is a real plus. Thank you!