Results of first casting session and some questions

[brewer12345]

I spent a few hours casting today trying all of this out for the first time. Not quite sure how many boolits I kept, but I started with 21 pounds of wheel weight ingots and left maybe 5 or 6 pounds of stuff in the furnace. I cast with two Lyman molds, both double cavity. One was a brand new 158 grain RNFP and the other was a previously enjoyed 358495 I bought from a member here that is supposed to throw 140 grain DEWCs. I used a thermometer the whole time so I knew when to turn down the dial on the lee pot and when it got a bit too hot at one point I threw enough sprues and rejects in to cool it off. When one mold got too hot I switched to the other.

The wadcutter mold was actually easier to cast with then the RNFP mold, to my surprise. Maybe the fact that the new mold is not broken in was a factor. I found the RNFP mold tended to end up with some "fins" on the boolits and the screw plate screw kept coming loose. The wadcutter mold produced ice looking boolits, but the middle rings have what looks like a bit of texture rather than being shin and smooth like the rest of the surface. Is this due to surface impefections I cannot see? Does it matter for shootabilty, or will it get smoothed off as I run it through the sizer?

The danged lee sizer came without alox (not as advertised) and the alox I ordered for tumble lubing has yet to arrive. Considering that these are air cooled wheel weight boolits, I should not have issues getting them through the sizing die within a week or 10 days, right? Do I need to lube them a second time after sizing?

I weighed a random pull of 5 of each type of boolit and found that the wadcutters tend to weigh about 147 grains (compared to a mold meant to make 140 grainers) and the RNFPs averaged about 166 grains (vs. advertised 158). I assume that the difference is due to the use of different alloys in spec vs. what I had. Should I expect that to change after sizing? Obviously the wadcutters are right on for most of the available load data. What do I do about the RNFPs? My standard load is a 158 grain Missouri bullet under 3.8 grains of HP38. I am guessing that I will still be OK with the same charge? Can't imagine that would even put me in +P range.

I had fun casting. I have to chase down some gas checks so I can make some boolits for my 35 Rem along with more 38 boolits in the next session.

[Dusty Bannister]

I found the RNFP mold tended to end up with some "fins" on the boolits and the screw plate screw kept coming loose.
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Are you describing flashing resulting of the hot alloy spreading out on the mold top under the sprue plate? Or Whiskers forming in the vent lines? I will address the lead getting between the sprue plate and the top of the mold blocks. This happens when the plate is too loose. There is a set screw that you will need to locate in one of the block halves. Loosen it, adjust the plate tension to move with slight resistance and snug down (do not over tighten) the set screw and bring the mold up to temp. You may have to back off the set screw and readjust the tension on the plate after it warms up. Be sure to snug down the set screw after adjusting tension. If you still have base flashing, you may have another issue such as a bent sprue plate, but that will be another step to take later.

Can you use the same load with a different bullet? Sometimes, but it certainly would be better to back off a little and just work up the load again with your alloy, and your lube as you have changed the basic conditions of the load. Dusty

[brewer12345]

The fins were mostly on the top/nose of the boolit and all of the casts had mold lines where the two halves of the mold came together. The base of all the boolits were nice and clean.

[sqlbullet]

Generally molds tend to drop a bit lighter using COWW alloy, not heavier, but every mold is different. Sometimes I find when bullet weight creeps up and the fins become more noticeable there is a little something on the block face preventing complete closure by .001" or so. That may or may not be the issue you face though.

Your load of 3.8 grains of HP-38 is actually .1 grain over max for a cast 158 grain according to hodgdon reloading. Starting load is 3.1 grains for 782 fps with a COAL of 1.475". Max is 3.7 for 834 fps at the same COAL. I would reduce to 3.1 grains and work up.

Check out the data for yourself:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

They will size fine in 10 days.

Good shooting.

[MyFlatline]

As a new caster, make sure you keep good pressure on the mold handles, that can cause fins. Look for simple fixes first.
Good luck and happy casting.

[tazman]

It is normal for boolits to show a line where the mold halves come together. As long as it isn't raised very far it isn't an issue.
The boolits won't harden enough to cause a problem sizing them with a Lee push through sizer unless you water quench them and even then it depends on how much oversize they are.
The weight of the boolit will not change due to sizing. You aren't removing metal. just changing the shape slightly. The "texture" marks on the outside of the driving bands will disappear during sizing.
Your alloy is causing the difference in boolit weight from nominal and won't hurt anything. According to my Lyman 49th manual, you should be fine with that powder charge with your boolit weights(I am assuming 38 special).
As far as the fins go, Make sure your mold halves are closing properly. Hold the closed mold up to a light and check if you can see light coming through between the halves. If you can, then you have an issue with the mold closing. Probably something on the mold face holding the halves apart. Just don't clean the mold faces with a wire brush. That would probably ruin them.

[brewer12345]

I have been very careful with the molds since I know things are very precisely machined. I could tell when I was having a tough time getting the mold to stay closed because that is when the fins appeared. The odd thing is that the RNFP mold seemed a lot more prone to do so than the wadcutter mold. If there is an ssue with the mold closing, what do I do?

The least robust firearm I will shoot any of this is rated for 38 special +P and most are really 357s. I am not too worried about being at the top of Hodgdon's data since even for standard pressure 38 they for some reason do not show loads at the pressure ceiling.

[tazman]

Just for curiosity, what handles are you using with your molds?

[Dusty Bannister]

What sqlbullet is trying to gently suggest to you is that you might find that your alloy strength will fail and accuracy will deteriorate. That is why when you change a bullet alloy/lube/sized diameter, you are better served to start at the suggested starting load and work up through the variables until you find accuracy, and no leading. By starting at the max, you might miss your goal by not letting the gun tell you what it wants. Your choice of course, we all have had to learn one or two lessons by doing it again the right way. Dusty

[brewer12345]

Just for curiosity, what handles are you using with your molds?

Lee 6 cavity. The one I bought used came with them and works great. The new mold I bought a set and put them on.

[brewer12345]

What sqlbullet is trying to gently suggest to you is that you might find that your alloy strength will fail and accuracy will deteriorate. That is why when you change a bullet alloy/lube/sized diameter, you are better served to start at the suggested starting load and work up through the variables until you find accuracy, and no leading. By starting at the max, you might miss your goal by not letting the gun tell you what it wants. Your choice of course, we all have had to learn one or two lessons by doing it again the right way. Dusty

Gotcha. I will back off and work up again. Its not all that difficult, after all.

[whisler]

Keep your hand off of the sprue cut handle while you are pouring. Not doing so can cam the blocks apart and cause finning.

ETA: oops, saw Lee 6 cavity handles and thought you were using Lee 6 cavity molds. Please disregard

[brewer12345]

Hmm, I consulted the Lyman reloading manual and they have a 170 grain boolit made of linotype ranging from 3.0 to 4.6 grains of HP38 and even the top is not a +p load. I will back off a bit, but it seems to me that my current 158 grain load should be OK.

[tazman]

You are in that fun area where one data source say you are fine and another says you are hot. If the handguns you are using this ammo in are 357 magnum or at least rated for +P you should be fine. Just don't ever use it in older, weaker guns.

[brewer12345]

You are in that fun area where one data source say you are fine and another says you are hot. If the handguns you are using this ammo in are 357 magnum or at least rated for +P you should be fine. Just don't ever use it in older, weaker guns.

The wacky thing with different manuals saying different things about the same powder, bullet, etc. combination drives me nuts. I really do not like coloring outside the lines on this stuff, so not knowing where the line really is bugs me a lot. So far I have mostly stuck with 38 special loads in firearms rated for 38+P or 357 (the latter gives a huge margin of safety). In shotshell reloading I try to pick published recipes that are lower pressure (800X may meter like cornflakes, but it makes low pressure 20 gauge loads). Not sure what I will do with rifle loadings, but I will definitely be starting low and working up carefully.

[lightman]

It sounds like you had a pretty good day for a first time. Many casters don't get good bullets the first few attempts. You made a challenge for your self by using 2 different molds of different material though. You are correct about your weight discrepancy being your alloy vs what the mold maker used as a standard. At one time I think Lyman used Lyman #2 as their standard. The other guys pretty much covered your other questions.

[Wayne Smith]

Eventually you will either 1)PC, or 2)buy a lubesizer. May as well look at the sticky in the lube section that has a bunch of lube recipes. Even when you get the Alox you are likely to find it fine for the pistol rounds and inadequate for the rifle rounds.

Congrats on finding the sweet spot the first time! Most of us have to fool around with mold heating, alloy heat, pressure or not pressure pour, etc. before we do find that spot for a mold.

[sqlbullet]

One final thought....

While enough pressure on the handles is needed, I do have couple of molds that will fin if I squeeze too hard on the handles. I do consider any fins to be a problem, so I work to eliminate them. None of my molds produce fins when they are working correctly. But yours may.

Ambiguous enough? Squeeze hard, but not too hard. Your mold should not produce any fins, unless your mold happens to produce fins sometimes. :grin:

[OS OK]

Like Taz said...hold it up to the light and open the sprue plate and look into the closed mold with the hand pressure on the handles you use to cast...look for the light. If it's there then usually there's a tiny spec of Pb between the halves...you have to look for it with a toothpick or other small wooden 'picking/scraping' implement...

Now here's the 'kicker'...(always something that doesn't go along with the plan)...I have a 2 cavity Lee, TL-356-124-TC that shows a hair thin line of light in the bottom of the cavities, top of the cast boolit...can't get that light to go away no matter what. Funny thing, that mold doesn't fin? ...untill the other day when the Pb pot snuck up to 800*F. when I wasn't paying attention and then it all the sudden started finning like a fish!

"Watch dem temps!"

[brewer12345]

I am glad my first session went well, but without all the help of forum members here (and watching a bunch of youtube videos) I would have been in trouble, I suspect.

I did notice that squeezing as hard as I could did not solve the problem. There seemed to be a sweet spot as far as pressure goes. I will go over the mold carefully with my reading glasses on to see if there is anything messing up the mating of the two mold halves.

I took to heart the temp thing and bought a lead thermometer before I even fired up the pot the first time. It definitely helped keep things on track. Easy to see when the lead is getting to cool, not so much on the high side. Between 650 and 700 seemed to be the sweet spot.

I will probably end up buying a lubersizer, but I wanted to get a few casting sessions under my belt first and see where it went before shelling out even more cash than I already have. I will be starting to fool with 35 Rem rounds on the next casting session, but the focus will initially be on lower end velocities since I would like a less punishing load to shoot at paper than full house hunting loads. If LLA does not cut it when I am ready to ramp up velocity then I will probably have to bite the boolit on a sizer.

[gwpercle]

The Lyman 450 lube sizer I bought in the early 1970's was the best money I ever spent.
Pan lube was messy, I spilled lube on me ,the floor ,the table, my pants and the dog .
Tumble lube with alox was OK but I don't like the alox all over the boolit and you have to lube them then size them then lube again .....it's a pain .
The lube sizer....one cycle of the handle , the boolit gets sized, lubed with a good lube and a gas check gets seated and crimped. Done , neat & clean , no muss , no fuss!
Buy one ...you will like it. Alox runs out when the velocity gets up.
At the time I bought the 450 I thought it was a lot of money, after doing a few boxes of boolits I was happy to have spent it and I'm still using that same unit today . It has paid for itself a zillion times.

Gary

[CASTER OF LEAD]

I am glad my first session went well, but without all the help of forum members here (and watching a bunch of youtube videos) I would have been in trouble, I suspect.

I did notice that squeezing as hard as I could did not solve the problem. There seemed to be a sweet spot as far as pressure goes. I will go over the mold carefully with my reading glasses on to see if there is anything messing up the mating of the two mold halves.

I took to heart the temp thing and bought a lead thermometer before I even fired up the pot the first time. It definitely helped keep things on track. Easy to see when the lead is getting to cool, not so much on the high side. Between 650 and 700 seemed to be the sweet spot.

I will probably end up buying a lubersizer, but I wanted to get a few casting sessions under my belt first and see where it went before shelling out even more cash than I already have. I will be starting to fool with 35 Rem rounds on the next casting session, but the focus will initially be on lower end velocities since I would like a less punishing load to shoot at paper than full house hunting loads. If LLA does not cut it when I am ready to ramp up velocity then I will probably have to bite the boolit on a sizer.
Just a suggestion here, but look in the lube section of the forum. Ben's Liquid Lube recipe is in there. It is superb stuff. I know the Johnson's one step wax is discontinued ,but I think there revised recipe is in there as well. If not shoot me a PM and I will look it up and get it to you. I use it as a stand alone lube ,as well as a top coat on my lubrisized boolits. Great stuff. Ever consider pan lubing? It works well also. Hope I helped. - CASTER

[brewer12345]

Just a suggestion here, but look in the lube section of the forum. Ben's Liquid Lube recipe is in there. It is superb stuff. I know the Johnson's one step wax is discontinued ,but I think there revised recipe is in there as well. If not shoot me a PM and I will look it up and get it to you. I use it as a stand alone lube ,as well as a top coat on my lubrisized boolits. Great stuff. Ever consider pan lubing? It works well also. Hope I helped. - CASTER

Oddly enough, after I srted through my recently cast boolits last night (with surprisingly few rejects, must have caught them as I was actively casting), I realized I had over 600 and the slow boat with just LLA would be painful. So I did a bunch of reading in the lube sub board and just last night ordered the floor wax that is necessary to make BLL version 2.

[CASTER OF LEAD]

Oddly enough, after I srted through my recently cast boolits last night (with surprisingly few rejects, must have caught them as I was actively casting), I realized I had over 600 and the slow boat with just LLA would be painful. So I did a bunch of reading in the lube sub board and just last night ordered the floor wax that is necessary to make BLL version 2.

You won't be sorry . It is an excellent lube. Btw welcome to the forum and the addiction we all love so much. Remember be safe and enjoy the ride. Hope I helped ya and will anyway I can. - CASTER

[brewer12345]

Everyone here has been extremely helpful and I am very grateful. Heating up a bunch of metal to 700 degrees so I can reshape it and fire it at 1000 FPS is an intimidating prospect. All the advice and suggestions have made a huge difference.

[tazman]

Eventually the new will wear off and you will become an old, grizzled, and scarred caster just like the rest of us. It is fun though even though not new any more.

[brewer12345]

Eventually the new will wear off and you will become an old, grizzled, and scarred caster just like the rest of us. It is fun though even though not new any more.

Heh, I bought enough safety gear (welding gloves, face shield, leather apron, etc.) that I am hoping to avoid the scarred part.