38 special in s&w 38

[billyb]

Went to the range today,we had a little break in the hot weather today in the tulsa area. After i had finnished shooting i picked up my brass and what was there. I found several 38 special cases that had been fired in a 38 s&w. Used the calipers to take measurements on the emptys to determine what these had been fired in. The cases were bulged above the head and had a small bottle neck where the 38 special's were in the lead of the cylinder.Anyone here done this? Looks like one of those things that is not safe to me. I do not have a 38 s&w or any experience with one. Bill

[9.3X62AL]

I agree that it is absolutely NOT safe--some 38 S&W revolvers have the strength to contain 38 Special pressures (Webley top-breaks and S&W Victory/Lend-Lease come to mind), but it is hazardous and certainly can't be very accurate. Some of the weaker top-break models could catastrophically fail if a standard or +P 38 Special were to find its way into the cylinder, but thankfully many of their cylinder lengths are too short to contain the cartridges.

Flirting with disaster, that is.

[dromia]

I concur, having shot and owned many pistols in both calibres, more in 38 S&W, they are different and non interchangable rounds.

Still some people obviously feel that they need to live a little, I just hope they don't choose to do it next to me on the firing line.

[Harry O]

The cases were bulged above the head and had a small bottle neck where the 38 special's were in the lead of the cylinder.Anyone here done this? Looks like one of those things that is not safe to me. Bill

There were quite a few WWII S&W or Colt revolvers in .38 S&W that were imported into the US in the 1950's and 1960's that were rechambered to .38 Special. They were originally made for Britain. The cases have the same look that you saw. A correctly chambered .38 S&W should NOT be able to chamber a .38 Special.

However, there are a number of even older Colt revolvers that were made for the .38 Long Colt caliber. They have straight through cylinders that can chamber .38 Specials, and even chamber .357 Magnums. Obviously, the gun will fail dramatically if this is done.

At one time, I had a bunch of .38 S&W cartridges and no gun to shoot them in. I ran them through a .38 Special sizing die (decapper removed), and surprisingly, they sized down enough to be shot in a .38 Special revolver.

[fourarmed]

I have found those too. From the cannelures on the cases, I think they were full wadcutters.

[dakotashooter2]

Still some people obviously feel that they need to live a little, I just hope they don't choose to do it next to me on the firing line.]

Or don't know any better!!!!!:shock:

[KCSO]

Wholesale Hunter sold about 20,000 of those Victory models in the 50's and 60's. No it isn't the best idea to shoot them with 38 Specials but they are not dangerous with standard (NOT +P) loads. A LOT of them were remarked 38 Special. Pressure for the 38 S and W and the old Special are very close and I have yet to see one of these do more than spit lead from improper timing . Most of the old top breaks won't hoot 38 specials as the cylinders are too short.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/3242183B1B0826F/standard.jpg

The above is a Victory Model. My dad bought it from a California Highway patrolman in 1964. It is marked 38 S&W on the barrel. I believe due to it's serial number (V prefixed) that it was probably among the first Victory models made for British Commonwealth as they were standard blued with a commercial polished finish.

http://www.fototime.com/50ABC2CCC36BAEB/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/3E0EE07A3D785CC/standard.jpg

It has the hole plugged where the lanyard ring went, and as seen in the photo (sorry for the poor pic) there are no United States Government property marks. Nor does it have any British proof marks such as the parkerized Victory model in the right photo. I believe the first couple batches went to South African aviation units. Possibly they didn't apply proofs? Either that or this one didn't make it out of the country?

It has had some work done to it over the years. It's has a 38 Special reamer run into the chambers. Plus the barrel has been shortened to 4". Whoever did that did a splendid job. The front sight should be intregal with the barrel. This one had been removed and soldered back on and just the very fainest white line at it's base is visible.

Shooting standard 38 Specials causes no issues unless not hitting your target very regulalrly is a problem :-) On the other hand, having the 38 Special reamer run in causes no problems whatsoever in shooting 38 S&W. In fact it might have been an improvement.

http://www.fototime.com/48343BFA434AB36/standard.jpg

This group was fired at 25 yards with the Lee 358-148 WC cast of pure lead. It had been swaged to form a HB and bump it to .362". It was also loaded out to the same OAL as a 38 Special , so the internal case volumn was the same.

................Buckshot

[BruceB]

Buckshot, ol' man;

In fact, your revolver does have British markings.

Those arrow-shaped marks, one between the two "D"s and the other further down, are the British "Broad Arrow" military property marks. On Canadian-issue items, the same Broad Arrow is contained inside a large "C".

The faint "FTR" mark probably was imprinted after a "Factory Thorough Repair", meaning arsenal-level or factory overhaul. I seriously doubt the gun was returned to S&W for a "factory" rework, so it was likely done in Britain. The FTR mark is followed by an "M", and the numbers "54". This could denote the overhaul location (Maltby, maybe?) and possibly the date, 1954.

The mark beside the lower Broad Arrow looks like an acceptance stamp, with the crown mark above a numeric identifier for the inspecting agent or agency. I don't see any Brit proof marks. It was normal British practice to proof-stamp every chamber of the cylinder, on the outside between the flutes, and the marks were very obvious.

Usually when a gun was removed from British service and sold off, it was marked prominently with a pair of Broad Arrows stamped point-to-point and lying horizontal...it actually looks like a sizeable asterisk. Most S&Ws I've seen so marked have the new stamp on the left side of the frame just above the crane; i.e.: just below the top of the frame at the same elevation as the rear of the barrel.

Nice gun. My first revolver was a similar one, still chambered in .38 S&W. I thought it was pretty hot stuff, until the day I fired it into a birch sapling about two inches in diameter. The bullet failed to penetrate the tree, and in fact left no indication of itself at all on the far side. I quickly re-evaluated my feverish dreams of using it on a bear!

In the early '60s, the Edmonton (Alberta) po-lice were carrying .38 S&W Webleys and S&Ws, until the day they fired at the rear window of a get-away car after a bank robbery. Several rounds hit the glass and didn't even crack it. They were soon crowing about their adoption of the "FAR more powerful" .38 Special, with all the usual gasps of horror from the civil libertarian nutso fringe.

[mike in co]

saami puts both 38 s&w and 38 special at 17kpsi....but cip(european) splits them a little with 38 s&w at 17.4 and the 38 special at 21......

mike in co

[sray]

If this is a bottle necked case of about .32 cal., and has the rim turned off with an extractor groove. It probably a 38 special case made into 8mm. Nambu. Before cases were available to reload, if you were to shoot your pistol, you had to either make your own or buy custom made 8mm. from .38 special brass. These were undersized and bulged or split upon firing. You can't reload them a second time. I always used light loads and lead bull- er boolits and survived the experience.
Sray

[billyb]

If this is a bottle necked case of about .32 cal., and has the rim turned off with an extractor groove. It probably a 38 special case made into 8mm. Nambu. Before cases were available to reload, if you were to shoot your pistol, you had to either make your own or buy custom made 8mm. from .38 special brass. These were undersized and bulged or split upon firing. You can't reload them a second time. I always used light loads and lead bull- er boolits and survived the experience.
Sray

it was a standard 38 spl. case still had the rim, kinda strange looking critter after it was fired. miked the inside of the moouth of the case at.3605. Bill

[Buckshot]

...............BruceB, my sincere apologies. I was typing fast and failed to remark about the right hand photo WITH the acceptance and other markings. I have edited my post to now read:

"Nor does it have any British proof marks such as the parkerized Victory model in the right photo"

Totally different revolter then the blued one :-)

..................Buckshot

[oksmle]

Buckshot .... I have one like yours that has been punched out to .38 Spec. I miced the back of the chambers & ordered a straight six-fluted reamer that just barely scratched the largest chamber. Then I reamed all the chambers to .38 Spec. length. This cleaned up the .38 S&W portion of the chambers & gave me a .38 S&W diameter the length of a .38 Spec. I then fire formed 100 new Remington .38 Spec. cases to .38 S&W diameter & dedicated them to this revolver. Since the original sights were regulated for a 200 grain boolit I left them like that & now shoot 195 to 214 grain loads at about 650 fps. As you discovered this is easier on the pistol than using the .38 S&W case. I also engraved "38 S&W Big" on the cylinder.
This combo has won several of our Military Revolver matches at our local range.

oksmle

[Buckshot]

..............oksmle, the 38 Special does make a rather picturesque bulge in front of the rim, doesn't it :-). Too bad there wasn't some case out there like a LONG 38 S&W a person could trim back!

................Buckshot

[Safeshot]

If you want to you can reload 38 S&W cases by resizing them in a 9mm sizig die and then expanding with a 38 Special expanding plug. You might want to try hollow base wad cutter bullets. seat the wadcutter "out" (not flush) and crimp in a grease groove as recommended in the old Speer loading manuals. They usually expand well enough to give acceptable accuracy in the .38 S&W. You can also reload for the .38 S&W using 9mm RIMMED (Federal) cases with a .38 special or .38 S&W expander plug (which ever is best suited to the bullet you are using). Again, the 38 Special hollow base wad cutter BULLET is a viable option. In either case use .38 S&W load data. Be careful, Safeshot