Buying a handgun out of state

[am44mag]

Here's a legal question. Can I, a legal resident of Oklahoma, buy a handgun in the Great State of Texas at a gun stop without having it shipped to my FFL back home?

I know the law USED to be that I had to have it shipped to my FFL in Oklahoma, but this seems to change things.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/11/federal-court-rules-residency-requirements-pistol-/

If I understand this right, I can buy a handgun out of state now, right?

[runfiverun]

out here if it's a bordering state you can.
if the state your in and your state both allow it.

[MyFlatline]

Had a shop in Texas refuse to sell a long gun without it being shipped earlier this year...He said it was his call..We left without it

[dragon813gt]

Long guns, yes. Handguns, no. This is what I've been told by the FFL that handles all my transfers.

From the ATF, notice it only mentions over the counter sales of rifles and shotguns: https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/may-unlicensed-person-acquire-firearm-under-gca-any-state

[Idz]

That's a 2015 court ruling. Obama would just ignore any law or court he didn't like.

[Tom W.]

I can buy one in Georgia but it has to be taken to a FFL in Alabama for me to pick it up. Rifles and shotguns are OTD. Individual sales...????? mostly cash and carry.

[Handloader109]

You can't buy a HANDGUN from a state that you don't reside in without having it shipped to a FFL and you having to fill out paperwork in your home state.
Yes a long gun or shotgun is legal to purchase across state line.

What you do Person to Person is your and his decision.....
But business can't.
And There was no reason for not selling rifle/shotgun to out of state person unless you made the seller uncomfortable and it then becomes his OBLIGATION not to sell you a firearm.

[wv109323]

IIRC, it is federally illegal for a handgun to cross state lines without a FFL dealer in the state of residence of the purchaser's to do a background check. Though tough to enforce for face to face transactions, an FFL dealer can not sell a handgun to an out of state individual.
Many dealers will not accept an out of state handgun from an individual. Apparently in my area the BATF told dealers that the shipment must be FFL to FFL.

[Eldon]

INTERSTATE sales must go through an FFL. INTRASTATE sales (generally) don't.

Going by the advice of folks on a website like this is not prudent.

Gunbroker.com, Gunauctions.com or the ATF website can walk you through it.

When you are arrested quoting me won't help. Having a copy of the ATF regs or better yet a ATF letter might.

When in ANY doubt, ship from and to an FFL !

[Down South]

Been there and done that. I've won a number of handguns in Tx but I have to have them shipped to my FFL in La.
It is a federal law and is about as stupid as stupid gets.
I can't purchase a 22 rim fire revolver out of state and walk out of the store with it but, I can purchase an AR-15, a dozen mags and a 1000 rds of ammo out of state and walk out of the store with it.

[David2011]

Slightly off topic but I can't resist. I can walk around Wal-Mart with a pistol in my pocket but when I bought a muzzle stuffed charcoal burner they carried it out the door for me, with my legally carried pistol in my pocket. If you take the plastic packaged muzzle loader off the pegboard shelf complete with propellant, primers and bullets you can take it through the front checkout lanes.

[Petrol & Powder]

David2011, I hear you. That's corporate policy and not law. Doesn't make much sense but policy seldom does.

As for the OP - Federal law is pretty clear on handgun transfers from an FFL. You must be in your home state when a FFL transfers the handgun to you or you must be a FFL holder. So a handgun purchased out of state MUST go to an FFL in the resident's home state for the final transfer to the purchaser.
Federal law allows out of state transfers for long guns to residents of adjoining states BUT not all states allow that.

[Tom W.]

My LGS in Georgia only charges $10 for a transfer to the pick up FFL in Phenix City. Mostly just a formality...... probably covers gas.....

[smoked turkey]

The FFL dealers I have talked to here (Missouri) tell me that all smokeless guns with a serial number must go through an FFL in the state the buyer resides in if they are to cross state lines. This is long and short guns alike. This means it is illegal for me to purchase a gun in a neighboring state at a gun show and carry it across state lines to my residence. I can purchase all the guns I like from individuals at local gun shows in my state of residence without any federal paperwork. Dealers still have to require the Federal paperwork on all gun purchases. I think the law is vague enough that most dealers make the interpretation to avoid any possible infringement of the law. Can't say I blame them.

[M-Tecs]

Per the ATF rifles and shotguns yes but no on handguns.

https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/may-unlicensed-person-acquire-firearm-under-gca-any-state

[dragon813gt]

Same link that was in Post #4

[Paper Puncher]

Long guns, yes. Handguns, no. This is what I've been told by the FFL that handles all my transfers.

From the ATF, notice it only mentions over the counter sales of rifles and shotguns: https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/may-unlicensed-person-acquire-firearm-under-gca-any-state

Apparently private face to face sale out of state is not allowed. Is this something that changed, I thought that used to be permitted?

[Eldon]

Can we move on ? The ATF website is 100% CLEAR !

[M-Tecs]

https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/3/buying-and-selling-a-firearm-private-sales-explained/

[NyFirefighter357]

It is an antiquated law written before background checks and computers to check police records. This law needs to be changed and updated for the digital age.

[wv109323]

Paper Puncher
Since the 1968 GCA it has been officially illegal for personal sale of a handgun to cross state lines. Originally long guns were the same way. No sales across state lines of any gun. The law was relaxed about 1990 or so to allow long guns.
Though still illegal there are many handguns sold in this manner, The law is simply impossible to enforce.

[mdhillbilly1]

I notifyed the Maryland State Police of the court case above. Their response was until ATF notifies them of the change, they require all handguns purchased out of state of Maryland to be shipped to a local Maryland FFL. The hold up is the ATF which is going to be a hard nut to crack to get them to release an official statement unless ordered by a court order.

[starmac]

I assume (could very well be wrong) if a seller steps across the state line and sells a person a handgun in a ftf deal, at least the buyer would be legal with this goofy law.

[mdhillbilly1]

I assume (could very well be wrong) if a seller steps across the state line and sells a person a handgun in a ftf deal, at least the buyer would be legal with this goofy law.The person can only legally sell a handgun across state lines to an FFL Dealer.

Consider if you purchase a handgun from an individual from Pennsylvania and sells it to someone just over the Maryland line to another individual.

Then you get a knock on your door by police wanting to search your home. They find the handgun that they were given a tip about that the ballistics matches a murder case in Pennsylvania. The original owner could have called it in stating his gun was stolen.

This is just one example of why handguns need to go from an PA FFL Dealer to MD FFL Dealer that would had proved when you had received the firearm from the dealer.

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[starmac]

The person can only legally sell a handgun across state lines to an FFL Dealer.

Consider if you purchase a handgun from an individual from Pennsylvania and sells it to someone just over the Maryland line to another individual.

Then you get a knock on your door by police wanting to search your home. They find the handgun that they were given a tip about that the ballistics matches a murder case in Pennsylvania. The original owner could have called it in stating his gun was stolen.

This is just one example of why handguns need to go from an PA FFL Dealer to MD FFL Dealer that would had proved when you had received the firearm from the dealer.

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If a guy flys up here and brings his hand gun, would it be legal for me to buy it from him? I assume it would be.

By your example, why should you only be concerned about hand guns?

[dragon813gt]

In the example above it would apply equally to long guns. If you're truly worried then use a FFL. But this only applies if a 4473 has ever been filled out. That's where the trail ends. So even if a gun was originally purchased on one and then sold multiple times FTF they have no way of tracing it. And since FTF is legal in most states there is nothing they can do about it.

[mdhillbilly1]

If a guy flys up here and brings his hand gun, would it be legal for me to buy it from him? I assume it would be.

By your example, why should you only be concerned about hand guns?The majority of crimes are committed by handguns per FBI Data. Their is very few if any long guns involved in reported crimes. The few long guns that might be used for crimes are used for professional hits.

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[dragon813gt]

The majority of crimes are committed by handguns per FBI Data. Their is very few if any long guns involved in reported crimes. The few long guns that might be used for crimes are used for professional hits.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

True, but you're overlooking the fact that in your other post you were worried about a firearm being traced to you. If that's the case you would want to CYA and transfer all guns through a FFL.

I won't get into the specifics of state laws w/ the two you chose. I'm more concerned about those than the federal ones when it comes to handguns. MD has a registry and PA has "sales records".

[starmac]

The law is asinine as far as I am concerned. if ftf is legal in one state, then the buyer moves to another state and decides to sell , then is sold again, and again in several different states, what does the law accomplish??

[dragon813gt]

It's an antiquated law. FTF handgun sales in PA are supposed to go through a FFL. Most ignore this. Especially w/ guns that were bought before the "sales record". That was the concession when we got rid of waiting periods.

[starmac]

I would imagine the state to state ftf law is ignored pretty regular too, seems like unless caught in the act it would be tough to prove.

[mdhillbilly1]

Their was a court case that reversed the law allowing sales of handguns across state lines. We contacted the ATF and Maryland State Police that I provided the federal court decision.

They both responded that they had not received official documentation on the decision. The ATF stated unless you would get several congressmen to push the court decision. They do not see the law officially changing at the ATF.

[texasnative46]

mdhillbilly1,

That is another EXCELLENT reason to ABOLISH the BATFE (and all but a total of 2 federal LE agencies). = We need over 80 (the last time that I counted) federal LE agencies with special agents like we all need an aggressive cancer. = This is one of the MANY massive wastes of taxpayer's $$$$$$$$.
(Each of those LE agencies has its own administrative support personnel, command structure, payroll office, procurement office & any number of other needless duplications that cost taxpayers MILLIONS of $$$$$$$ for NO legitimate reason.)

Note: Just before I retired in 2006, the GAO "bean-counters" published an internal review that between 20-25% of all federal funds were lost to FRAUD, WASTE or simply STOLEN.
(The BHO maladministration reportedly ordered the internal review to be destroyed, less than 60 days after they learned of its existence.)

I recommend keeping the US Marshals Service & the USPS LE folks (as those are the 2 oldest federal police agencies) & ABOLISHING all the other agencies.
(It makes ZERO functional difference WHICH badge/credential that a LEO carries.)

yours, tex