6.5x55 Swede questions

[Jthomas]

I picked up a Swedish Mauser a while back. Great condition great bore. Problem is ammo, Its gettinhg harder to find and somewhat pricey. I going to get set up to reload for it. This means buying a press and dies. I do have a couple load books but not much data on reloading cast. So my question is where can I find a supply of cast boolits for it? Where can I find good proven data for cast boolits? Hopefully once I get all my questions answered I can post a wtb for a press and dies.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Jthomas,
welcome to the forum.

Loading cast boolit ammo for Rifle is kind of an advanced form of reloading. If you were to start reloading something much more forgiving, like 38 special, you'd be miles ahead of the curve to then tackle Rifle ammo.

The Lyman cast bullet handbook 4th Ed has been the best book/manual for me, as to explaining the process of loading cast boolit ammo, as well as it having a lot of cast boolit loading data.

Now the Foreign 6.5mm Mil surps are even more challenging than standard Rifles, I have a little experience with the Foreign 6.5mm Mil surps. Most of them have oversize bores, requiring a larger diameter jacketed bullet and/or cast boolit. While American made commercial rifle in 6.5x55 use a .264 diameter jacketed bullet. The Swedes need a jacketed bullet at .266 or .267 and the Japs and Italians can be larger. The barrel of my Jap T38 measures .2685 and the best size for a cast boolit would be .001 to .002 larger than that groove diameter. Besides ordering a custom boolit mold, I also wound up ordering a custom sizing die, so I would not over work the brass.

I'm just hitting the highlights here, trying to give you an idea why starting with a more simple pistol caliber would be a good idea.

Now to answer your question on buying cast boolits for your Swede, I don't know of a commercial cast boolit vendor that sells what you want, but there may be one, but it may not be a cataloged item, and you'd have to call and ask them, if they can make the size you need...which you will have to determine what size your gun is, by slugging the barrel, with a soft lead slug, then measure that with a good quality Micrometer.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?75944-Slugging-a-barrel-How

[Jthomas]

Thanks for the reply. I did consider reloading for my pistols first but all I own is 9mm and 40cal. So the easier 38 or 357 is out. And If I buy a wheel gun to use for a reloading learning curve I'll be sleeping on the couch for a month. And trust me, my couch is not comfy.
I did find a fellow that reloads that is close to my area. He did invite me over for a few lessons.
I will find or order some soft lead for slugging the bore, I just read about that here on the forum. Once I find out the bore diameter I'll look for a source of boolits.

[Yodogsandman]

The 6.5x55 is a tough one to start casting boolits for and learning to reload, all at the same time. There's no shame in first learning the basics of reloading good, safe ammo using jacketed bullets. The 6.5x55 shines with about any jacketed bullet and a wide variety of medium to slow rifle powders. Arrange to glean as much info and advice as you can from a seasoned reloader.

The problem of using cast boolits is the very fast barrel twist and the variance of throat and bore groove sizes of military surplus rifles. Cast boolits should be sized .001"-.002" over bore groove diameter and also to just under the throat size. A pound slug will show you the dimensions of your rifle. More likely than not you'll need a custom sizing die made for you. Be aware that the long, skinny boolits for the 6.5x55 can be easily bent during sizing. Heat treating boolits and using push through sizing dies will help to prevent bending. Your boolits will need to fit your rifle and you might have to go the semi-custom mold maker route to get that to fit right also. Then is the matter of expanding the case neck to about .001" under the boolits band size for best neck tension. Again, maybe a custom route. Then because of a possibly oversized cast boolit, you'll need a seating die that will allow that oversized boolit to be seated by using a larger caliber die or by grinding one out to fit. Factory 6.5x55 seating dies are made for .264" jacketed bullets and not up to maybe .270" oversized cast boolits. Most often, cast boolits have to be shot at below 1600 FPS to get good groups due to the fast barrel twist. Luckily, I found that a charge of between 9.0gr and 11.0gr of Unique will normally show whether a mold will work or not. Then the experimentation begins....

Good luck!

[KVO]

Agreed 6.5x55 can be a challenge with cast. The Swede has a history of creating more than one contentious fight on this board. Seems it does more battle on Cast Boolits than it ever did on the battlefield. Mine is not a military Swede, but my best luck was with the NOE 270469 (clone of the Lyman 266469) and moderate charges such as 10gr of Unique or 14gr of Alliant 2400. I tried plain based and had zero luck with accuracy in this caliber.

Fair warning that NOE mold (270469) had a way undersized gascheck shank from the print, as in .243" I do not know if this has been corrected but I had to seat and size checks in two steps.

[KVO]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=27_388

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Agreed 6.5x55 can be a challenge with cast. The Swede has a history of creating more than one contentious fight on this board. Seems it does more battle on Cast Boolits than it ever did on the battlefield. Mine is not a military Swede, but my best luck was with the NOE 270469 (clone of the Lyman 266469) and moderate charges such as 10gr of Unique or 14gr of Alliant 2400. I tried plain based and had zero luck with accuracy in this caliber.

Fair warning that NOE mold (270469) had a way undersized gascheck shank from the print, as in .243" I do not know if this has been corrected but I had to seat and size checks in two steps.
I have the NOE 270469 (149gr RN) mold... Mine also has a undersized GC shank, I had one of the GC makers, make me a custom check using .017 alum and his 270 dies (not his 6.5 GC dies).

[KVO]

It was a bit of a bummer as I have a 7mm checkmaker and got that mold with the idea that it would work for both. It still does in a round about about way, I just have to run the boolits though two different sizers. I may get brave and try to open the shank up one of these days.

[David2011]

JThomas,

Good luck with your venture with the Swede and welcome to the forum!

As said, determine you bore diameter. Pound a soft pure lead slug through a well oiled barrel using a brass rod and measure the grove (high spots) diameter with a micrometer. The Model 96 Swedish Mauser is one of the most beautifully crafted military rifles ever created. The steel in it is exceptional. I've had one since around 1990 and it's in pretty much new condition. The action is quite strong unlike earlier rifles using the same cartridge. Some people including paid gun writers don't know there's a difference between the M96 and the earlier rifles. I also have a hand built M98 hunting rifle in 6.5x55.

The original 6.5x55 bullet weighed 170 grains and had straight sides with a round nose which made for a very long bullet thus requiring a very fast twist. OTOH the sectional density is very, very high and that carries through to modern lighter bullets along with terrific ballistic coefficients. Not that I'm a 6.5x55 fan or anything. Actually I like all modern 6.5mm cartridges for the same reasons. I don't include the Carcano or 6.5 Japanese because of their oversized bores. The twist rate on a Model 96 is around 1:7.8" because of that very long bullet. That will allow the use of the very long 142 grain Sierra MatchKing without issue. A 1:9 twist in my experience is not fast enough for that bullet. At 2650 fps, 1:7.8 twist the rpm is over 244,600. With jacketed you can get more than 2650 fps. I don't know where cast boolits start coming apart but that's worth considering and a good argument for jacketed in that rifle to develop a baseline.

[JMax]

I went through these problems with my Norwegian Krag in 6.5X55 and posted what it took for me to make it work. The detailed post is under Military Cast Bullet section on the second page titled Trials and Tribulations with my Norwegian Krag. Due to the rapid rate of twist (1/7.5) I found tha I needed to keep the velocity around 1300 ft/sec plus the Norwegian has a short throat or leade so most bullets would not work. I worked with Swede NOE to make me a mold, 145-268, and LatheSmith to make me a .268 lube sizer die. I found that data in the Lyman book had too high velocities and I dropped back to 7.8 gr of Unique and now spend my time nailing clay pigeons at 100 yds with abandon. Go back and read what I did and others comments as a starting point. Feel free to PM me if you have detailed questions.

[Jthomas]

Everyone, Thanks for the replies. i will look for the other threads and read up.

[dondiego]

You should buy a wheelgun in .357 mag. and have the wife sleep on the couch.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's another idea that might help you unravel all of this.

Since you are new to reloading and have no equipment yet, I would suggest a "Gradient Approach" to learning the hobby.

I would suggest buying a Lee Classic Loader for 6.5x55 ($35)and learn the basics of loading regular Jacketed Bullets with it? This is the simplest and most inexpensive (wife won't care) method of reloading any cartridge and will work well in teaching you all of the basics.

You will learn about case preparation, (trimming, chamfering, priming etc.) Lee makes simple inexpensive tools to do all these operations, and you can learn about them first before having to worry about slugging your barrel, boolit fit, throat diameters, lead hardness, gas checks, and all the myriad other little bits and pieces that go with loading cast boolits.

This is where many of us started. Typically when learning any new discipline it is prudent to learn the basic fundamentals of that discipline well and then move towards more advanced challenges as you progress.

While it is possible to start at the top, it is seldom successful, and even if you are, (.01% chance) you will be missing so much basic data that it will affect you later when you try to branch out and find out you missed a lot of information that should have been learned on day one.

Loading Cast Boolits for a Swede is definitely starting at the top.

After you have done this,,, if you like it or have a need for producing more ammo then you can buy more sophisticated equipment and advance from there.

The 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser is one of the most challenging rifles to get to shoot cast boolits well there is. It is certainly not the best caliber to start with and will probably end in frustration if attempted from a beginners perspective. There are just too many variables to be considered to be able to yield any degree of success beyond a bullet just leaving the barrel.

Once you understand more about the process you can add more variables like cast boolits to the mix and probably be able to glean some form of acceptable accuracy from your gun.

The whole idea of this post is to get you started reloading on a gradient that you can learn from, instead of being overwhelmed by.

Randy

[Kosh75287]

I would suggest buying a Lee Classic Loader for 6.5x55 ($35)and learn the basics of loading regular Jacketed Bullets with it? This is the simplest and most inexpensive (wife won't care) method of reloading any cartridge and will work well in teaching you all of the basics. I think this is a good way to start. Whether you reload by this method first, or use a bench-mounted press, you'll need primers, propellant, and projectiles. Buy the primers in 1000-count cartons. Most propellants come in 1 ib. canisters, and projectiles will (usually) come in 100-count boxes. Each of these components (depending on brand) will cost somewhere around what the Lee Classic Loader will cost, or somewhat less. When you've mastered the essentials of reloading with the Classic Loader, and are tired going quite so slow, THEN go buy a bench-mounted press. Lee sells perfectly adequate but no-frills presses for what the Classic Loader costs, sometimes less. For the bench-mounted press you will need a set of 6.5x55mm Mauser dies, which Lee also makes by the dump-truck full. Lee dies are comparatively inexpensive, very durable, and come supplied with recommended load data, and a shell holder (reloading dies from other makers generally do not). By the time you get these, it is unlikely that you will have exhausted your supply of primers, propellant, or projectiles. You can use these same ones (unless you decide to try another variety) with a bench-mounted press as you did with the Classic Loader. The bench-mounted press will reduce the effort needed per round, speed things up a little, and give you some options on resizing the case.

Eventually, you will want to add some extras, like a powder weighing scale, a powder measure (adjustable to throw the desired powder charge repeatedly), a powder trickler (for weighing individual charges for greatest uniformity), and some others. The Lee weighing scale is inexpensive and perfectly adequate, but you may want better, later. I'VE had no luck with and confess no affection for the Lee Powder Measures, but others report good results.

You may also find all or most of these items available in the form of reloader "KITS", offered by various manufacturers, USUALLY featuring a proprietary bench-mounted press. These can be good deals, compared to obtaining the individual pieces of equipment, but the initial outlay for them may also yield you a lot of couch visitation. Check prices in stores and on the net.

This will seem like a lot of information to absorb. I generally found that, once the equipment and components were in front of me, figuring out how to proceed is largely intuitive, and a matter of fine adjustment to account for the variations associated with your particular rifle.

ADDENDUM: I recommend some form of hand-primer, so you do not have to stand over a press all day, seating primers. It's not much of an issue if you only load 20 or 30 rifle rounds at a time, but it gets tiring when working on 100-200 pistol rounds (which, yes, you will probably end up reloading).

[W.R.Buchanan]

After his Lee Classic Loader the next logical step would be to a Buchanan Precision Machine Hand Press that can be used any where and is just as fast and any other single stage loader.:-D

Available at the website below my Signature.

Randy

[JMax]

I have to agree with Randy and Kosh,keep it simple to begin with. I started with my grandfather decades ago casting with Ideal single cavity molds, a dipper and lead pot and loaded on an ideal C press. I have cast and loaded lots of ammunition and the 6.5 X 55 took me nearly a year to work out. Molds not suitable for my rifle coupled with strange reloading data kept me busy. My30-06 and 30-40 Krag were a snap, 45-70 very straight forward, 7.62 X 39 finding its favorite powder took some time and the 223 very straight forward but a 6.5 X 55 could keep you up at night planning your next of a dozen range trips with targets and trusty chronograph. But in the end it was a very educational journey well worth it.

[9.3X62AL]

Don't "low-rate" the Lee Loader. My first sniper rifle at work got fed with a Lee Loader in .223 Rem, and I trimmed most of the shooters but good using its ammo. You don't have to be a Dillonisto to make decent ammo.

My 6.5 x 55 Swede is a lot less complicated to manage than the milsurp rifles with 5 turns/meter twists. Mine is a Ruger 77R, with near-perfect dimensions (.2645" throat, .264" grooves) and 1-9" twist. It shoots Lyman #266469 @ .265" into the 1700-1800 FPS ZIP Code without "going poetic". I gave this bullet a lengthy test-drive vs. Lyman #266673, and the older Loverin design edged it out overall to 200 yards.

Rifling twists faster than 1-10" tend to impose a "speed limit" on cast bullets, and this "limit" will vary from rifle to rifle and from shooter to shooter.

I would submit that in most respects the 9mm and 40 S&W resemble rifles in terms of cast bullet success & complications. What I learned by loading cast bullets in rifles was applied to these higher-intensity pistol rounds, and success resulted. The short version--fairly hard alloys (typically 92/6/2 here), fairly soft lubes (BW-Alox or Carnauba Red), STRICT adherence to barrel throat/bullet diameter relationships, and to not seek uber-velocity as an end goal. Accuracy should be the focus, because all the velocity on earth won't mean JACK if the bullet misses its target.

[Dutchman]

The Swedes need a jacketed bullet at .266 or .267


hi JonB

I have a m/94 bullet sitting in front of me and a digital caliper: .2635" Most of the Swedish m/94 bullets I've measured were .263".

Dutch

[Dutchman]

The original 6.5x55 bullet weighed 170 grains and had straight sides with a round nose which made for a very long bullet thus requiring a very fast twist.

10.1 grams = 156 grains. Right in front of the case mouth bullet diameter is .260" and tapers ever so slightly
to a round nose. But the sides of the bullet are not parallel.

Dutch

[HABCAN]

The 6.5 Swede can be a puzzler. It's NOT a caliber I'd recommend a newbie to start learning reloading on!! Boolits must fit a rifle's THROAT, and Midsouth's cheaper special LEE 170 gr. Cruise Missile mold gives boolits that WILL work (or NOT!) in the Swede. If too small in YOUR rifle, learn to Powder Coat, or even Paper-Patch up to required size. All you need to know about those skills can be found on this Forum. I have two of the LEE molds: one I had milled down to cast at 140 grs. and it works nicely too when PC'd on top of some +/- 20 grs. IMR 4198 or 4227. Welcome, and Good Luck!!!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

hi JonB

I have a m/94 bullet sitting in front of me and a digital caliper: .2635" Most of the Swedish m/94 bullets I've measured were .263".

Dutch

I stand corrected.
My 96 had a groove diameter of .2675
I used the Hornady Carcano bullet 160gr (.267)
I shouldn't have generalized.

[higgins]

With jacketed bullets, the 6.5x55 is no more difficult to load than other bottleneck rifle cartridges. Heck, just get Hornady bullets and seat them to the cannelure. Unless you're trying to hot rod it (and I don't know why one would), any medium burning rate powder will give good results. I've loaded a lot of IMR 4895 in the 6.5x55 (H4895 would work too). You may not get maximum velocity, but you will have powder on hand you can load several bullet weights in 6.5x55, as well as a lot of other cartridges with if you so choose. Since you're low on the learning curve, keep it simple.

[9.3X62AL]

Buckshot told me about milsurp WC-860 powder being a real good match to the 6.5 x 55--a full case (55.0 grains in my brass) and any 140 grain spitzer provided 1896-era ballistics (2400-2450 FPS in the Ruger's 22" barrel) and SUPERB accuracy. My rifle dotes on every 140 grain jacketed bullet I have tried in it--NosParts & Hornady #2630 getting the bulk of the work. Just another route to rifle enjoyment.

[Jthomas]

Thats alot to read ant take in. Thanks again guys. Im sure ill be asking more very soon.

[Jthomas]

Im having a hard time finding soft lead to slug the bore with. Ive read somewhere that a fishing weight is soft enough. Can anyone confirm this before i screw up?

[Yodogsandman]

Yes, most fishing sinkers are lead but, I live in a state where they must be non lead like zinc. Stoopid loons eat em!

You can also use muzzle loader balls, roof flashing or most stick on wheel weights (SOWW).

[jonp]

Thanks for the reply. I did consider reloading for my pistols first but all I own is 9mm and 40cal. So the easier 38 or 357 is out. And If I buy a wheel gun to use for a reloading learning curve I'll be sleeping on the couch for a month. And trust me, my couch is not comfy.
I did find a fellow that reloads that is close to my area. He did invite me over for a few lessons.
I will find or order some soft lead for slugging the bore, I just read about that here on the forum. Once I find out the bore diameter I'll look for a source of boolits.

I saw Taurus 38sp P+ on sale this month for well under $200. Great place to start if you don't have a wheelgun.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Like Higgins said, a 'standard press and dies', READ multiple how to reload manuals and books. Watch out for all the boogie men on the INTERNET. Start with standard jacketed bullets from Hornady, Sierra, Speer. The 6.5 x 55 is no more difficult to load than the 308 or 270 WITH 'standard jacketed bullets'. After you are successful with standard loading procedures with jacketed bullets than start the cast bullet journey. the 6.5 x 55 is a well proven cartridge and should be very enjoyable. Powder Valley should have 6.5 x 55 brass and bullets at reasonable prices, Graf's, Midsouth, MidwayUSA are other useful shopping sites online. Amazon carries a lot of shooting and reloading equipment and BOOKS on reloading.