Seating boolet below the neck????

[abunaitoo]

I always try not to seat the boolet below the neck.
Seems like they just shouldn't be.
Correct or not?????

[Hick]

I've read somewhere that it is not good to seat the gas check below the neck. I generally try to avoid that if possible. I do occasionally seat plain based boolits below the neck. BUT-- I haven't done any real tests to see if it makes a difference

[waco]

Ever load 240gr boolits in a 300BLK?
It's going below the neck. I have not had any issues.
I just got a new to me Rem. 722 in 300 Savage and most cast boolits seat below the short neck a bit. It shoots just fine.

[GhostHawk]

One of the reasons I like the .30-30, long necks. You can load anything you want into that case.

Yes I prefer to keep them even or slightly above. But I have seated them slightly below with no ill effects. I do think it perhaps increases the odds of a problem.

[plainsman456]

Someone will come along and tell you if you do it can put your eye out.:mrgreen:

It has been done for years and sometimes some floks have had a problem,mostly not shooting as accurate as they think it should.

[buckshotshoey]

.243 has a very short neck for caliber. It's one of the reasons some prefer the 6mm BR. The base of the boolit is going to seat deeper then the neck..... especially with 80 gr and up. My experience indicates no problems.

[blue32]

Seating below the neck is par for the course with 260 rem. I haven't experienced any problems. I imagine one would notice an ill fitting gas check before it was loaded.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

More than once, I have come across a boolit-rifle combination which "required" seating deep (where the boolit base extends below the neck). They shot just fine.
>>>With that said, as a general practice, I try to avoid that condition.

[runfiverun]

I try to avoid it to but stuff happens.
one of my rifles shoots best if I just start the bullet into the case mouth then as I chamber the round it seats the bullet into the case.

[lightman]

>>>With that said, as a general practice, I try to avoid that condition.

My feelings exactly, I prefer not to. Many times it can't be avoided. A short throat or a short magazine often dictate how you seat the bullet. Throw in a long heavy bullet and you have no choice. I would really try to avoid it with a gas check but otherwise I don't worry about it.

[BCB]

One of the reasons I like the .30-30, long necks. You can load anything you want into that case.

Yes I prefer to keep them even or slightly above. But I have seated them slightly below with no ill effects. I do think it perhaps increases the odds of a problem.

I agree except I went to the 30-40 Krag for the long neck. I do shoot the 30-30 also, but now prefer the 30-40 Krag cartridge...

Good-luck...BCB

[lotech]

There may be exceptions, but I've never found seating below case necks, if necessary, to be a disadvantage in any way. Most of my experience in this area has been with the 7.62x39, .300 Savage, and .308.

[dragon813gt]

Load for 300 Savage and you will be seating them below the neck. No issues doing so. Even when gas checked. If you listen to some people that gas check will blow your gun up when seated below the neck.

It goes w/out saying that you should try to keep the bullet in the neck. But it's not always possible.

[sharps4590]

Pretty much been covered but I'll throw in my two pennies. Same as others, I prefer not to seat below the neck but sometimes there isn't a choice. I've not experienced any problems from deep seating with either plain base or gas check bullets. The issue is all the experts who aren't experts, those who have loaded 200 rounds of jacketed bullets for one cartridge and know all there is to know about handloading.

[Wayne Smith]

Years ago, when Lyman gas checks were slip on, it was good advice. Now that they all crimp on I'm not sure it make any significant difference. If you have old Lyman gas checks reserve their use in long necked cartridges!

[Texas by God]

It may not be desired but it makes no difference IME. 300 Savage is great with cast.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[lotech]

sharps4590-
I suspect your statement is quite true. This topic comes up on a regular basis and Internet experts who have read somewhere this procedure won't work preach that it won't work, but have no experience with it not working. There are always exceptions, but real reports of the drawbacks experienced by seating bullet bases below case necks would be more useful information.

[Boolit_Head]

I've used some gator checks on a 160 grain boolet that ends up putting the check below the neck on a blackout. So far I have had no issues though I am not fond of it.

[gwpercle]

If we are talking bottle neck rifle and gas checked boolits , you didn't say , I was taught it was best to not seat the check below the neck. Not knowing any better I went with it .
I'm sure new and modern testing has proven this all wrong, but I'm sticking to my old ways because they work for me.
Gary

[Larry Gibson]

If you seat a cast bullet, GC'd or not, below the case neck of a bottle necked cartridge there may or may not be a noticeable affect. Whether there is or not depends on several things;

Intensity of the load (heat generated and time of exposure before the bullet moves into the bore)
Pressure generated (time/pressure curve and max psi during exposure)

Note; the above leads to what we call "gas cutting". If this thread were in the handgun forum many would be yelping to high heaven over the probable bad affects. Also since the exposed part of the bullet is essentially "undersized" since the gas can get around and onto the sides of the bullet and does not "fit" they should be yelping to high heaven about "fit is king".

Another factor where the adverse affect may not be noticeable is with the short ranges many shoot cast bullets at. This included the long heavier bullets used for subsonic loads. At such short ranges damaged bullets often give "acceptable" accuracy results.

It has been known for a long time that serious damage can be done to the bullet by simply seating below the case neck. This was documented years ago in the NRA Cast Bullet Handbook. Below is a picture from the article showing a 311284 seated to base of the case neck (left) and a 311284 seated below the case neck (right). Both were cast of the same alloy at the same time. They were shot in a 30-06 with the same load. The damage done by gas cutting to the right bullet is obvious. Such damage probably would only begin to deteriorate accuracy at 100 yards if shot in a milsurp -06 with issues sights. Might not even be noticeable. However, if bench rest or target shooting in a rifle with a scope where accuracy counts the degradation of accuracy would be very noticeable.

204180

I do not load cast bullets with the GC or bas below the case neck.

[lotech]

I own no benchrest rifles, but have gotten 100 yard groups with factory guns in the 3/4"-1" range consistently using #314299 cast of ww alloy in at least a couple of .308s. Not award winning groups, but good for me. This bullet must be seated below the case neck in the .308. Leading hasn't been a problem.

I'm sure there are exceptions and the NRA project may have dealt with such. I don't specifically recall the article but I'm sure I've read it at least once. I have referred to the book often over many years, but have not looked at it recently. I don't recall anything specific at the moment, but haven't some of E.H Harrison's cast bullet theories been disproven in recent times?

[Larry Gibson]

If a "theory's " results are producible then it is no longer a "theory". Years ago when I recovered a lot of my own cast bullets out of a .308W rifle that had been impacted in snow I noticed that many the 311284s which were seated below the case neck had gas cutting damage similar to the picture. The 311299s I fired did not. It's why I don't seat below the case neck (top of the GC anyway).

As I mentioned previously there are other variables. One is the seated depth below the case neck. There is no right or wrong answer here. If seating below the case neck suits one's purposes then doing so is fine as long as a crimped on GC is used so no safety problem arises. Some of us just prefer not to seat cast below the case neck for proven reasons.

"I own no benchrest rifles, but have gotten 100 yard groups with factory guns in the 3/4"-1" range consistently"

Impressive, you should enter CBA matches. You would win many of them.

[lotech]

I don't think I would win often. I've never been fortunate to own an "all day long" rifle and I certainly don't shoot a good group everytime. Perhaps "consistent" was a poor word choice, but I didn't expect the acerbic response. Like many others, I can manage enough good groups to know I have an accurate rifle and a good load.

[Larry Gibson]

"Acerbic response".......?

You asked the question about Harrison 's theories being disproven. I answered honestly that if proven and reproducible it is no longer theory but fact.

I also congradulated you on your own claimed ability and suggested you to compete in CBA matches.

How is either "acerbic"?

Since there is no yes or no answer the discussion may provide insight for others. All that was intended was a further discussion of the OPs question.

[robg]

I've tried both ways in my 308 with 180 gr boolits .I got better accuracy with the check in the neck.but I don't think its set in Stone probably just me.

[ShooterAZ]

Sometimes we have to do it. I certainly don't recommend it, but in the 300 Savage it is below the neck, same with 300 Win Mag. Sorry since I since I got my new computer...my photos are all messed up and I'm struggling with attachments. It won't load right.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

exactly how "tall" is a gas check? (I mean the sides)

[Boolit_Head]

exactly how "tall" is a gas check? (I mean the sides)

Tall enough? :Bright idea: I have seen gas checks of different heights but most were similar.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

wow, that was loaded with useful info!:kidding:

[Boolit_Head]

Glad to be of help! :-D

[Oklahoma Rebel]

love the avatar by the way, it tops em' all!

[Bama]

After looking at a foriegn military study, per study it only requires one bullet diameter to form as good a gas seal as possible with the paticular boolit. Based on that, extending bullet farther into the case than required will not help seal or improve accuracy so why do it if not required for throat fit. Also it takes up case capacity which has to be monitored carefully to control pressure on higher velocity loads.

[Boolit_Head]

With some cartriges there is not much choice. Take the 300 blackout, heavy bullets running subsonic with a short case neck is a recipe for seating deep into the case.

[Bama]

Seating a gas check below the neck with a near max load is also a concern with reduced case capacity. This is one reason I started sizing bore riders to fit inside the bore so they can be loaded with the gas check fully inside the neck. It gives good bullet alignment and improves my accuracy.

[MT Chambers]

The .308 and .30 br. require most accurate boolits to be seated below the neck, my most accurate loads in those two cals all have the Gc well below the neck. the pressure of ignition will keep the check on till it's out the barrel (prolly talking 40,000 psi).

[Tom Myers]

exactly how "tall" is a gas check? (I mean the sides)

The Precision Load Records ~ 5 software (http://www.tmtpages.com/#records) contains a gas check database containing a complete dimension chart for both Hornady and Gator gas checks.

Hope this helps;

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Gas%20Check%20Chart/Gas%20Check%20Sizes.png

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Gas%20Check%20Chart/Gas%20Check%20Sizes-Gator.png

[Larry Gibson]

Seating the GC below the case neck is not always detrimental to accuracy. Thus there is no clear cut yes or no answer on this question.

There are sufficient bullet designs available that keep the GC in the neck of the shorter neck cases. In the .308W for instance I've found a lot of different designs that keep the GC inside the neck. With the 311299s I've used over the years at least the top of the GC is kept within the neck, even on a couple very short throated ones. As with Bama I also will size the bore riding noses when necessary so they "fit" the bore so the GC doesn't have to be seated deep. This has proven beneficial especially when pushing the cast bullets to high velocity with psi's of 35,000 to 50,000 psi.

[blackthorn]

And, to state the obvious, here is another reason to make a chamber cast. It will tell you what the absolute maximum length your case length can be and still remain safe from binding.

[Rcmaveric]

I was sketchy about loading gas checks below the case neck. Tried because of no other choice. Didn't really affect accuracy.