Mishap with inertia puller

[DLCTEX]

I stopped by a friends house Friday to drop off some boolits I had cast for him and found him a bit shaken. He had pulled bullets from 300 Wby ammo using a Frankford Arsenal inertia puller and on the nineth round a primer fired on the rebound of the blow that pulled the bullet. The bullet and powder were in the bottom unburned and the primer backed out of the case. He is sure that the primer didn't fire until the tool was up from the rebound. He was using the collets that came with the tool, he did not hit anything on the rebound. Why would a magnum primer not have enough flash to ignite the powder in front of the case? The pop was rather loud. The primer may or may not have backed out before firing as he was having trouble with loose pockets on that lot of brass, but wouldn't the inertia tend to drive the primer in, not out. There was smoke from the primer but no burned powder grains. The case was still seated firmly in the collet. We have been really dry, but if static electricity fired the primer ( is this possible?) why was the powder not ignited? The bullets had a heavy crimp and took several hard blows to pull the bullets striking a flat anvil spot on a vise mounted on a wooden bench. We can find no answer, but he is reluctent to use the tool anymore even though he has used the tool to pull may bullets and loaned it to a friend who used it to pull 50 boolits the day before to check powder problems. Any thoughts ? DALE

[HeavyMetal]

Over sensative primer or it could be a primer was working it's way out of the pocket, you'd mentioned loose primer pockets in these case's, and when he whacked it the last time the primer reseated and fired!

I have had case's that I was pulling boolits on work themselves up and out of the collet while pounding them on the concrete, no reason to think a primer couldn't do the same thing.

My thought on this deal: primer goes off but round is not contained in anything to maintain pressure! The pressure of the primer pops the bollit out of the case, and with even less pressure the powder does not ignite.

I have seen loaded rounds dumped in an open camp fire, yes that guy was an idiot, and they made less noise than a fire cracker! Mostly just small pops and then a flare up of flame when the powder was ignited by the camp fire.

I will suggest your friend needs to " get back on the horse" I think this an extrodinary and rare occurance that won't happen again as long as he pays attention to primer pockets in the future.

Glad to hear he's O.K.

[oneokie]

No idea as to why the primer went off. As to why the powder did not ignite, the primer flash was some distance from the powder in the puller, thus the flame duration could have lacked enough time to ignite the powder. You did not state whether the primer blew its self out of the primer pocket when it went off. If it did, another reason as to why the powder did not ignite.

A technique to use when using an inertia puller on heavily crimped or mil surp ammo with sealed bullets is to run the rounds into a seater die to move the bullet deeper into the case to loosen the crimp or break the sealer bond between the bullet and case neck.

[be603]

thanks for this one more reminder to overconfident me -- safety glasses. always.

[35remington]

Don't forget the bullet was not confined by the barrel, nor the case by a chamber, so the pressure never really got high enough to light the fire. I would expect that the case was mostly full of powder and the powder not really all that far from the primer.

One of the primer's effects is to blow everything forward as well as ignite the powder (witness powder impact marks on the base of gaschecks and plainbase bullets).

In the absence of conditions that confine the cartridge, the powder will not ignite reliably.

Especially slow burning powders.

[DLCTEX]

Just to clarify, the bullet dislodged with an audible click which he was listening for. as stated, the primer was backed out, but still barely in the pocket. The bullet and powder were outside the case (he's pretty sure) when the primer popped, as he heard the bullet click and the tool rebounded up before the pop. Ever hear of a hangfire with a primer? I think that the fact that the powder was out of the case saved him from a big bang. The powder was IMR 7828 SC, maybe it's hard to light? May be a good deal it wasn't Unique. My counsel was that he'd been doing it for years without incident, so in absence of evidence of a problem, go back with confidence. Easy for me to say, it didn't go bang in front of my face. DALE

[runfiverun]

either h-metals first thought.
or he crushed the priming material, and the powder moving back and forth in the case
caused static and fired the dust from the primer.

[35remington]

" I think that the fact that the powder was out of the case saved him from a big bang. The powder was IMR 7828 SC, maybe it's hard to light?"

Gotta agree there.

[454PB]

All of the above as to why the primer ignited. I quit using inertia bullet pullers many years ago for these very reasons. I'd rather mar or even ruin a boolit or bullet than be whacking away on loaded rounds.

[unclebill]

i dont care if they are safe or not .
those things have always made me a bit nervous.

hmmm...
i wonder if this will blow?
WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!
ive got one but i never use it.

ive always wondered about beating it on concrete or metal.
couldnt they shatter?

[Dale53]

I have seen inertia pullers break from banging on concrete.

I use a 2x4x4 block as a strike surface (with the block resting on concrete).

The block absorbs some of the impact (hopefully cushion enough to preclude a primer going off). I have never really like using one but have on many an occasion with good results.

Now, I limit it to full wad cutters. Otherwise, I use a press and vise grips to pull bullets and just recast the bullets.

Dale53

[carpetman]

I have inertia pullers and really find no use for them. For jacketed bullets, the RCBS collet puller is far superior---both in speed and ease. The RCBS isnt worth much on cast bullets---for cast, take your die out of the press--run bullet up through the hole clamp onto the bullet with pair of vice grips and lower the ram and bullet is pulled. Usually ruined---easy fix remelt and re-pour. I do have a solid end grain mesquite stump to bang the inertia puller on,and exercise is only use I see for it.

[jhalcott]

I use a flat piece of 3/4" thick lead as an anvil to bang the inertial puller on. I use a pair of wire stripper pliers with a notch ground in the cutter part of the jaws. This gives me 4 small points to grasp the bullet as I pull down on the ram to remove it from the case. Even cast bullets are MINIMALLY damaged using this tool. It also prevents damage to the press threads caused by hard vise grip jaws crushing against the theads .

[remy3424]

I have inertia pullers and really find no use for them. For jacketed bullets, the RCBS collet puller is far superior---both in speed and ease. The RCBS isnt worth much on cast bullets---for cast, take your die out of the press--run bullet up through the hole clamp onto the bullet with pair of vice grips and lower the ram and bullet is pulled. Usually ruined---easy fix remelt and re-pour. I do have a solid end grain mesquite stump to bang the inertia puller on,and exercise is only use I see for it.

+1 to what he said..

You do have to invest in a collet for each caliber though...watch for them at gun shows, $5 each often

[jimkim]

I think I was in this same exact thread on another forum. It's déjà vu all over again. I want a puller like Uncle Bill's. In the meantime I will use my Peggy powered adapter with my Quinetics puller. I am thinking of adding a rubber foot from a crutch to it.

[mike in co]

i think i would look very closely at the primer, from inside.

normal ignition is impact. if no movement of the anvil to the cup..( normally cup to anvil)..then no impact.

lacking impact, i would say static electricity.


mike in co

[jhalcott]

I saw a clip of a guy using a static generator TRYING to ignite Black powder. He said that it couldn't be done. Lots of little lightning bolts but NO sparks or flames! Has any one ever attempted to set off a rifle primer using static electricity??

[tom barthel]

It happened to me once. I was working with surplus foreign military ammo. The primer popped, I threw the tool with the round in it into a bucket of water. I didn't know what would happen next. I was concerned the powder may go off. I left it in the water over night. I seem to recall it was berdan (sp) primed. I'm not sure byt, it may have been Egyptian 8mm. There were no marks on the outside of the primer. Never happened again. Thank God.

[yarro]

Had it happen with a .38 Special round. The plastic tool actually cracked and the powder burned with enough pressure to knock the case out of the tool. The powder did not burn completely though. I use a collet puller now.

-Yarro

[Willbird]

All of the above as to why the primer ignited. I quit using inertia bullet pullers many years ago for these very reasons. I'd rather mar or even ruin a boolit or bullet than be whacking away on loaded rounds.


I once had to pull SIX HUNDRED 308 rounds with an RCBS wacker puller, not a single problem, but my primers were not slide hammering in the pockets either :-).

Dad made me pull them because I loaded ammo without tightening the lock nut on the uniflow....I WEIGHED every powder charge just to prove they would all have been safe, but dad was RIGHT to make me pull them, I was 14 and he was a lot older and wiser :-).

I do prefer a collet puller today, but I am unafraid to use a wacker if as is very common the round is such that I do not have a collet the proper dia. I see no way to use a collet puller on 38 wadcutters either ??

Bill

[stillhunter]

Personally, I've been through five or six of these and never had the problem. We broke two pulling tracer ammo for the cases. ( Don't miss reaming the primer holes either!! ) Big ditto on the safety glasses. Never load without them....

[ForneyRider]

Don't tell mom.

I have been using Frankford Arsenal collet bullet puller for couple hundred pulls. It works good and fast on end of 2x4. But I lose powder with it. I usually end up dumping the powder or throw back in for plinker loads.

What primer was it?

[TAWILDCATT]

if you run into an explosive bullet and use the impact it should be interesting!!!!
I use the hornady lever puller.and the lead bullets[wc] run the case in the full length sizer to base of bullet the bullet will practacaly fly out then with the impact hammer.:coffee:

[Hunter]

I generally use an inerta puller for pistol rounds only. For rifle rounds or bullets with a large ojive/bearing surface I like the collet pullers better.
I have used my RCBS inerta puller to pull a lot of pistol bullets with nary a problem.

[mike in co]

if you run into an explosive bullet and use the impact it should be interesting!!!!
I use the hornady lever puller.and the lead bullets[wc] run the case in the full length sizer to base of bullet the bullet will practacaly fly out then with the impact hammer.:coffee:

an explosive bullet ????????

you been listening to the press ??

[buck1]

A buddy of mine was pulling a 300 win mag round with one and after the BANG he only had a handle in his hand! Bits and pices everywhere....Buck

[1hole]

I have both types of bullet pullers and choose which to use depending on what and how many I need to pull. The collet works fine on rifle bullets but rarely on pistol.

If I only have a few rounds of rifle to pull, maybe ten or less, it will always be with the inertia puller. Even IF a cap should go off, there is, as Dale's friend found, zero chance of anything serious occurring with an uncontained cartridge. (Soiled pants are not "serious"!)

Only an impact or high heat can detonate a primer. The only way I can see that impact while pulling is if the primer was a loose fit in the pocket so it bounced-slid out and then slamed back onto the anvil with the next hammer strike.

I will continue to use my impact puller, in confidence.

[jhalcott]

AS 1hole said,heat or impact sets off a primer. I have used the inertia puller for those bullets that do NOT stick up enough to get a grip on with the pliers. The pliers are SO much quicker and quiter than the hammering.

[TexRebel]

I still use the wack bang, RCBS inertia puller, and I wack in on a lead ingot of approx 5 lbs, it works well

[44mag1]

was this another FEDERAL primer problem. I love federal primers but there the only ones Ive had go of in my priming tray.

[Refraktorius]

an explosive bullet ????????

you been listening to the press ??

No he hasn't.

A friend of mine dismantled an inertia hammer with one (Believe it was Austrian, but can ask if anybody is interested)

German "B-geschoss" and Russian "ZaRa" are the classics.


Kekkonen on the ZaRa: http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA15.html

[Refraktorius]

Just talked to him.

He said it was an

"8 mm M.30 S Hungarian Mannlicher" either a spotter or an API. No colour-coding was left on the bullets.

[JIMinPHX]

Ever hear of a hangfire with a primer?


I thought that hangfires were always caused by primers...usually poor seating or a lite pin strike is also involved.

That aside, the kinetic pullers scared the daylights out of me from the day I first got one over 20 years ago. In that amount of time, I have used it to pull all sorts of ammo apart. I've never had a mishap yet (knocking on wood). I'm still cautious with them & if I'm pulling a lot of shells apart, I dump the recovered powder into a sealed container whenever I get up to about 10 grains.

[Doug Bowser]

Carpetman is right,

I have unloaded 1000 rounds of .30 M2 Ball recently. Hardly any damage to the bullets. When pulling bullets from military sealed ammo, seat the bullets an extra 1/10" and the job becomes a lot easier.

I only pull pistol bullets with an inertia bullet puller.


Doug Bowser

[Hardcast416taylor]

A tip to any inertia puller users. I put one of those disposeable E.A.R. plugs in the bottom of the chamber. It saves the bullet point and eases the force of the bullet/powder charge striking bottom. Myself I use a collet puller when needed and the inertia puller VERY seldom and usually ONLY for handgun rounds.

[mike in co]

Just talked to him.

He said it was an

"8 mm M.30 S Hungarian Mannlicher" either a spotter or an API. No colour-coding was left on the bullets.


neither of those are "explosive bullets" one is a armour peircing, and the other is designed to be seen from a distance with a "mark" not designed to explode any thing.

[Shotgun Luckey]

I have a pair of pliers with wire cutters that someone tried to cut a bolt or nail with...took a good sized chunk out of one side of the cutter...works great with the press to pull bullets.

[Refraktorius]

neither of those are "explosive bullets" one is a armour peircing, and the other is designed to be seen from a distance with a "mark" not designed to explode any thing.

So right, but they still go impressively "bang" with considerable force and fragmentation, and in my world, that counts as "explosive". For those who experience them at close range, it probably does too.

Once dropped a .50 API projectile on a campfire, and walked away (just to see what would happen). Then spend some time being happy that I had the distance and putting the nice little fire back together.

As Forest Gump would say: "Explosive is what explosive does, sir!"

[TAWILDCATT]

what ever you want to call them is all right by me.I dont know to much about them as I only work on Mg for a few yrs but did load 1000s of rds in belts for mine and other guns.50s and 30s.I have never had a rd or primer go of in 73 ys of reloading.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[1hole]

"Why would a magnum primer not have enough flash to ignite the powder in front of the case?"

I have no idea why your fiend's impact puller set off the primer. But, they fact that the powder did not ignite isn't too surprising to me, it's a LOT harder to ignite and get complete burning from most smokless powders than many assume. And no static ignition is possible in a cartridge, all the metal components would be at the same potential, as in any voltage difference would be "shorted out."

Some guy posted maybe a year ago to ask if anyone had any suggestion for what he could do to keep him from hammering his impact puller upside down, he had busted two or three. I suppose dum IS going to hurt a little?

[georgeld]

I've used a hammer type since about 1960 when Quinetics first invented them. That one lasted until about '90 when a friend was pulling some and hitting sideways on the head and broke it off. He bought a new one, I sent that one to them and was replaced.

One of the Midways, same as this was, broke one of the little bullet guide pcs off and wrecked the slugs. They sent another one n/c, not long after that they had a sale on them for $7.50 so I bought 3 more, each one with a different collet. Makes it easier for me than hunting for collets.

I've pulled several thousand rounds down with these things without another problem than above. When the powder flies out thru the holes, just put a pc of duct tape over it and problem is solved.

When I need to pulled one, that's the way I do it. Though it's mighty hard to get a 20gr .17 hammered out!!
I use a 2"x8"x8" steel plate for my anvil.

The thing you've gotta pay attention to is hit with the head verticle, not sideways tilt. Tilt it and you'll sure break them off right quick.

IF they were not safe, they wouldn't be sold by the many thousands.