Could I get an opinion on primer cratering?

[chutestrate]

These to cases were loaded with Winchester 296 16.5 hrs under Hornady 158 gr xtp's. The cratered primer nickel case was fired from my Dan Wesson 15 with an 8 in barrel the brass cas was fired from my Henry lever action. Am I ok keeping this load as a rifle only load because of nobover pressure signs?

[Tatume]

Primers are not a reliable indicator. Published load data from a reputable source is more reliable. My guess is that you are using Hodgdon data (which puts you slightly under max), which is about as good as they get.

[chutestrate]

Interesting. I always check primers if I am getting towards the upper end of a load for pressure signs.

[chutestrate]

And yes. I'm using Hodgdons data.

[country gent]

You have 2 different cases there win and fed. The difference may be in the cases case capacity. Also the difference in nickel and brass Plating adds a little more to the case and also may decrease case capacity. A more accurate test would be to use the same brand finish cases in both frearms. The load in win brass in both firearms and then the same load in the federal cases in both firearms.

[pertnear]

I have a couple of rifles that create a crater/burr after firing due to the firing pin condition & primer brand. If I see both flattening & cratering, I know I'm getting near the limit. It's hard to tell from just a photo, but your primer edges still look rounded. But always be cautious.

[Digital Dan]

You have 2 different cases there win and fed. The difference may be in the cases case capacity. Also the difference in nickel and brass Plating adds a little more to the case and also may decrease case capacity. A more accurate test would be to use the same brand finish cases in both frearms. The load in win brass in both firearms and then the same load in the federal cases in both firearms.

^^^^that^^^^^^

I don't see much of a problem in your images, but the advice from the Gent is valid. Mixing apples and oranges is not a substitute for bananas.

[Hickory]

There is no sign of over pressure in either picture.
The slight cratering could very well be because the firing pin hole is enlarged and is allowing some metal to pass.
If you had over pressure the primer would fill the whole primer pocket, (no rounded edges.)
Everything looks fine to me.

[Boolit_Head]

There is no sign of over pressure in either picture.
The slight cratering could very well be because the firing pin hole is enlarged and is allowing some metal to pass.
If you had over pressure the primer would fill the whole primer pocket, (no rounded edges.)
Everything looks fine to me.


Exactly! The primer corners are rounded so there is not so much pressure that it is causing the metal to flow. Might spec out the firing pin hole though just for good measure.

[MT Chambers]

I would never mix brass, esp. on anything close to max. loads, rifle, pistol or shotgun!

[NSB]

From someone who's fired more .357mag with 296 than 99% of all shooters who use it......they look fine. I've been shooting this caliber a lot for many,many years and your primers show no indication of over pressure at all.

[Echo]

I have a couple of rifles that create a crater/burr after firing due to the firing pin condition & primer brand. If I see both flattening & cratering, I know I'm getting near the limit. It's hard to tell from just a photo, but your primer edges still look rounded. But always be cautious.
Plus One...

[P Flados]

I have a couple of rifles that create a crater/burr after firing due to the firing pin condition & primer brand. If I see both flattening & cratering, I know I'm getting near the limit. It's hard to tell from just a photo, but your primer edges still look rounded.

As noted, cratering is not a good indicator. I load a lot with WW296/H110 including for a DW 357 mag. I also load for 357 max (DW & Contender). Depending on brand of primer, even my mild loads can show some cratering in some of my guns.

Book loads are pretty safe, but there is a big point that many miss. Seating depth and case capacity really matter. I have had sticky extraction and flat primers on occasion at real close to book max (say at "old" book max which may be over "new" book max) when shooting a hot gun in hot weather. These loads had next to no free space between the boolit and the powder. Any load with say 1/16" of free space has been pretty much trouble free with never any signs of real over pressure.

[Hick]

As said above, primer type may also be the issue-- not overloading. I friend of mine was seeing significant cratering with a certain brand of Match small rifle primers, and switched to commercial small rifle primers (Winchester, I believe). he kept the same brass and same load, and the cratering went away.

[chutestrate]

Thank you everyone. I really appreciate the advice. When I reload for revolver I don't use 296. I worked up my loads for the Henry and really like the results. I'm getting really nice groups with the load. I had the Dan Wesson with me and thought, hey let's try it. Well holy !@#$%. The pressure I felt seemed extreme so I got a little concerned and stopped shooting the revolver.

[runfiverun]

it probably wasn't all that quiet in the revolver either.
I have loads I shoot in my leverguns that are minimum loads but entirely adequate for their intended use.
and they are downright obnoxious in the Dan Wesson even with the gap set to about dragging the cylinder.

[sigep1764]

To me, the nickel case looks to be getting close to max. The primer has flowed a bit around the edge of the crater. Still looks safe to me, but double check your load data. The brass case on the left looks fine to me. I have also received a batch of soft primers before. I had loaded a couple thousand rounds, each thousand with their own box of primers stored in separate ammo cans. They were loaded over 3 days, every 10th or 15th round dumped after charging to check powder weight, and randomly selected finished cartridges checked for length. Second batch had primers that flowed, almost every one of them. Recoil, ejection pattern, and cases looked just fine. Just had flowed primers.

[Eldon]

MEANS NOTHING, NADA, ZERO, as any good CURRENT reloading book will tell you. A CURRENT reloading manual and a chronograph will tell you what you need to know. Primers, hard extraction and case head measurements are all OBSOLETE !

If your velocities and charges are exceeding those published FOR THE COMPONENTS you are using, you are in dangerous territory.

[Maven]

chutestrate, I also have a DW .357mag. (6" bbl., full shroud, stainless steel) and find it is much more likely to "crater" primers than my Ruger BH using the same load, bullet, and cases. It is accurate though.

[acoop101]

I don't see any primer cratering I don't even see any primer flattening.

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[lightman]

I would say those loads look safe to me. The cratering could be the brand or even lot number of the primer or the firing pin/firing pin hole in the firearm. I don't see any flattening around the edges. When I'm working up a load I watch for flat primers and hard extraction. I also consider the book published max as max and don't exceed it. I load mismatched headstamps all the time in handgun loads unless its for a hot load, a match or a hunting trip. These get matching headstamps.

[hermans]

There is no sign of over pressure in either picture.
The slight cratering could very well be because the firing pin hole is enlarged and is allowing some metal to pass.
If you had over pressure the primer would fill the whole primer pocket, (no rounded edges.)
Everything looks fine to me.

I agree 100%

[swheeler]

I don't see anything that looks like high pressure, but primers are not the best way to diagnose that, sticky extraction will tell you when things are getting too hot. The cratering on the one case is just an indicator of an oversize firing pin hole. I have H110 loads that completely flatten primers but fall out of the cylinder, up them a full grain and the machining marks of recoil shield are imprinted on the primer and entire case head, you know your over then even though cases extract smooth.

[Eldon]

The primers don't tell anyone anything who can read English !

[chutestrate]

huh???

[Eldon]

Reading primers is like reading tea leaves. A CURRENT load book and a Chronograph will tell you what is going on better than anything but a pressure barrel.