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View Full Version : 45-70 round ball vs collar button



pull the trigger
08-14-2017, 10:52 PM
Is the collar button worth the extra $$? Id like to conserve lead some and if the collar button was any good I could see maybe huntin with it. Mostly looking for a plinking boolit tho. I have yet to try either. Id like some feed back from someone who has ran both before I buy a mold. Im shooting a 1974 Marlin 1895 with a 16 1/4" barrel. Thanks

rond
08-15-2017, 08:10 AM
I don't think that a round ball would be that accurate as there is not much area to engage the rifleing.

pull the trigger
08-15-2017, 09:33 AM
Agreed, but how good are the collar buttons? Thanks

GRUMPA
08-15-2017, 09:56 AM
Is the collar button worth the extra $$? Id like to conserve lead some and if the collar button was any good I could see maybe huntin with it. Mostly looking for a plinking boolit tho. I have yet to try either. Id like some feed back from someone who has ran both before I buy a mold. Im shooting a 1974 Marlin 1895 with a 16 1/4" barrel. Thanks

I only used the collar button boolit, like mentioned already the round ball just doesn't have the contact points for accuracy.

Here's a thought..... Go and ask for the boolits in the boolit exchange area located in the S&S section. Kinda like a try before you buy kinda thing, that way you'll know for sure before spending anything.

But if you ask for the collar button boolits be specific. There is actually 2 different collar button moulds, 1 NOE and a Lyman collar button, so be specific.

JonB_in_Glencoe
08-15-2017, 10:17 AM
GRUMPA,
there is actually more than two, LOL.
besides the variations of old Lyman molds, and now the New Lyman production.
I believe that NOE has two different weights.
and then there is the old Lee Group Buy molds, which is what I had (I sold the mold, but only after I cast a large lot of them in pure Pb).

Wayne Smith
08-15-2017, 10:55 AM
And Walt Meander made mine, to add to the confusion.

alamogunr
08-15-2017, 11:01 AM
GRUMPA,
there is actually more than two, LOL.
besides the variations of old Lyman molds, and now the New Lyman production.
I believe that NOE has two different weights.
and then there is the old Lee Group Buy molds, which is what I had (I sold the mold, but only after I cast a large lot of them in pure Pb).

How did the Lee GB mold perform? I have the mold but have never used it. Would like to just for kicks.

JonB_in_Glencoe
08-15-2017, 11:16 AM
How did the Lee GB mold perform? I have the mold but have never used it. Would like to just for kicks.
for 45-70? I got no idea?

I bought it for a Ruger Old Army...poor performer...but I found it worked better putting it in the cylinder upside-down (flat side out)...but even then, it performed worse than round ball.

I've never owned a 45-70, but I had that feeling that someday I would, so I cast a bunch in soft lead, for possible future shooting with BP in a future owned 45-70...just in case. Then I sold the mold.

I have since, bought a Ruger #3 in 45-70...I have yet to shoot it or load for it. But, I have bought a 405 mold and cast some for it, I even seated some for dummy rounds to find a COAL. ...to be continued...

Digital Dan
08-15-2017, 11:20 AM
There is no reason to not use round balls and if properly loaded they will do fine for plinking or small game.

alamogunr
08-15-2017, 02:22 PM
for 45-70? I got no idea?

I bought it for a Ruger Old Army...poor performer...but I found it worked better putting it in the cylinder upside-down (flat side out)...but even then, it performed worse than round ball.

I've never owned a 45-70, but I had that feeling that someday I would, so I cast a bunch in soft lead, for possible future shooting with BP in a future owned 45-70...just in case. Then I sold the mold.

I have since, bought a Ruger #3 in 45-70...I have yet to shoot it or load for it. But, I have bought a 405 mold and cast some for it, I even seated some for dummy rounds to find a COAL. ...to be continued...

I never thought of using it in the Old Army. I have one but now I don't have to bother to try the collar button in it.

Beagle333
08-15-2017, 02:40 PM
Miha made mine in a Group Buy here.

mehavey
08-15-2017, 06:14 PM
Read the whole string here:
https://thefiringline.com/forums//showthread.php?t=560894
45-70 Grouse Gun -- the short Collar-Button answer is "yes"
... with a picnic plate trick

17nut
08-15-2017, 06:20 PM
I shoot a NOE CB in my 45-70 Marlin 1895 26"
Cast 97/3 and unsized it's a tackdriver with 12 grains of TrailBoss (1340fps'ish), and a hoot to shoot :-)

ewlyon
08-15-2017, 08:54 PM
Haven't tried a round ball, but my new Lyman collar button is a sweet shooter in my Marlin guide gun. Based on the responses so far it sounds like you would not regret either.

Leadmelter
08-15-2017, 09:13 PM
If you want to try some, Western Bullet Co. makes both and are reasonable priced.
Western Bullet CO makes both style. Check them out. A cheap way to try them out.

KenH
08-15-2017, 09:24 PM
How do you lube the round ball when loading in 45-70? Just tumble some LLL on the ball? Load the ball right at the end of brass, about half in just enough to hold ball in brass?

big bore 99
08-15-2017, 09:29 PM
I've shot both from my H&R Buffalo Classic. Found the round ball to be better with super light loads of Unique is tin can accurate at about 25 yds. Sounds like a cap gun and blows right thru both sides of the can.

pull the trigger
08-15-2017, 10:15 PM
Haven't tried a round ball, but my new Lyman collar button is a sweet shooter in my Marlin guide gun. Based on the responses so far it sounds like you would not regret either.
I have been eyeballing a new lyman on Amazon but cant tell if its pointy or round. What number is yours and is it flat? Thanks

ewlyon
08-15-2017, 10:37 PM
It is the #457130 that they have on Midway. I don't have one in front of me right now but I think the tip is relatively rounded. The mold did not disappoint but an aluminum version would be nice because the small cavities do not let the mold heat up quickly.

pull the trigger
08-15-2017, 11:23 PM
Read the whole string here:
https://thefiringline.com/forums//showthread.php?t=560894
45-70 Grouse Gun -- the short Collar-Button answer is "yes"
... with a picnic plate trick
Thanks!!!

Digital Dan
08-15-2017, 11:37 PM
How do you lube the round ball when loading in 45-70? Just tumble some LLL on the ball? Load the ball right at the end of brass, about half in just enough to hold ball in brass?

How a fella loads round balls depends on the gun and his imagination. Nothing in the process differs from loading cast bullets. They need to be sized properly and can be lubed with ALOX, or a simple smear of lube before loading. Half diameter seating depth and a light kiss with a crimp die will do the trick. Such loads have always performed well for me up to around 1000-1100 fps and it doesn't take much powder to make that happen. 2" groups at 50 yards was pretty normal with the .44.

If inclined to dabble it works well with a paper patch too, at least in my .44 up to around 1800 fps. Things head south above that velocity.

KenH
08-16-2017, 12:53 PM
Dan: Thanks for the response, and that makes sense. I've used round balls for fire forming brass, but not for actual shooting. I just might try that some. I did some powder coated collar buttons about 200 grain, but they didn't shoot all that good - more like 5" spread at 50 yds.

Digital Dan
08-16-2017, 10:30 PM
Hope it works out for you. Some years ago Paco Kelly did some work with the .45-70 and round balls. I don't recall the particulars but you might dig it up with a search on the 'net. According to Hollywood there was a lot of fancy shootin' gunslingers using cap'n ball revolvers back in the day.

725
08-16-2017, 10:39 PM
One of my favorites. 9 gr of Unique and a .457 RB thumbed into the case. Buff Classic.

pull the trigger
08-18-2017, 11:12 PM
Im sort of concerned he round balls will be too loose in a Marlin Microgroove barrel Im kind of leaning to the collar button mold but I may very well buy some from western like was suggested. Thanks for all your help folks!!