Silver "amassing"

[opos]

Titled this "amassing" rather than collecting for a couple of reasons. I'm an old duffer and have never owned any silver...no interest in gold...just always thought it would be nice to have a couple of bags of silver coins in the gun safe in case paper money did anything funny "short term"..I'm not a prepper...not a collector...just a "bucket list" kind of thing I guess...and it won't change my life style one bit if it goes up or down.

Been doing alittle looking and it seems bags of "junk" silver coins are about as decent as any form of bullion short of bars which would not be spendble in an emergency...Just wondering if most of the on line dealers are about the same and are the e bay dealers ok or a bunch of con men?

I can find the melt and spot values and do the calculations to get the actual costs..but interested in any other things to keep in mind..

I'm sure there are other ways to accumulate silver or gold but again..this is more of a bucket list thing than any thing else...I been around too long and through too many battles to be sweet talked into some "deal"...just interested in real, trusted dealers..many thanks'

"Midas opos"

[BrassMagnet]

Many counterfeit silver coins exist. I have read that FleaBay counterfeit sellers are still in business without issues due to FleaBay won't deal with it and LEOs can't touch them.
Use a dealer. Prices with shipping can vary by 100% or more. Do your homework first!

[dragon813gt]

I stay away from anything besides government issues coinage. Bars can and will be shaved. I typically buy junk silver when the price is right. For one the price above spot is typically nothing. Second, it's a small percentage of silver which makes it more valuable as a trade item should everything go south.

I typically buy from APMEX. shipping is usually free and they often have junk silver for a few cents above spot. I trust them as a source and they are very reliable.

I buy more numismatic Silver Eagles than anything. You pay a premium up front but there is no bartering when it comes time to sell. At this point I don't have any that have gone down in value. They keep going up every year. The key is to look for low mintage, odd mint marks and special features. The US Mint does a great job at releasing special coins every so often.

I buy the numismatic coins off eBay but for junk silver I stick to the large online dealers. There are lots of reputable dealers on eBay. I just don't want to take the time to investigate them. W/ APMEX I know the listed coin condition is what I will get.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

about 18 months ago, I got the inch to procure some more silver (I've been into coins and silver ever since I was a kid, it was a family thing). At that time, it seemed like silver was near the bottom and it looked like a good possibility that another Clinton was destined for the White House.

Ever since Y2k, I decided I prefer old US coins over 99.99% bullion. It's a long story, but the short version is, I experienced that it is a lot easier to sell US coins, than Bullion bars and medallions. I like Walker halves and Mercury Dimes, but you pay a premium for those over Franklins and Roosevelts (or quarters), even for culls.

I bought from several fleabay vendors in May 2016. You can research a vendor's feedback as well as their reputation if they have a website. Besides buying from the Big ones, like Littleton, Ampex, and Liberty. I also bought from small individual dealers if they had good feedback and posted "actual" photos of the coins you are bidding on, and NOT stock photos. Typically I bought one Roll at a time, and from many different sellers. One reason I bought from several sellers (about 10 sellers), is that I planned on buying a fairly large quantity, and thought if I were cheated by one, I'd only be out one Roll of coins, instead of a $2500 worth of coins.

If a FTF deal is more preferable, look to craigslist, there are several coin dealers in my area that will meet at secure locations to swap old silver coins for cash. I looked into it myself, but never followed through. Also, the Annual gunshow in my area is actually a gun and coin show...But those vendors are looking to buy,sell,trade for numismatic value instead of culled silver...and I suspect other 'coin shows' are similar, but you may make a connection to do a deal at a later date.
Good Luck.

[mold maker]

Collector value is way too subjective for anybody except those very knowledgeable in the hobby. I only buy known and trusted bullion at cents over spot.
I'm not willing to pay for graded coins, the .999 silver will always have a publicized value.
As with any speculative investment, its a coin toss as to increased value and the possibility of loss is always in play.
If the unlikely SHTF scenario happens, no investment will make you rich, but can possibly hold your $ loss to a minimum.
As long as you never INVEST bread and bean money, you are actually just buying insurance you can physically hold.
If worse comes to worse would you sell 3 boxes of 223 ammo to the guy with 18 paper dollars or the next guy with an ounce of silver? The value of the silver and ammo will always be static while the paper may be just paper.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There is wisdom in mold maker's words. You can't eat precious metals. Nice to have, though, if you have enough food and want to buy something else. I too have invested in bullion coins, because they say what they are, 99.9% fine silver; but only in US or Canadian coins as something stamped (for example) "South Africa" may still be suspect. These are coins that are government issued/minted coins, not commemorative coins made by a non-government mint to celebrate a win at the Indy 500, etc. In the worst of worst times, which we may live to see, a cartwheel minted in 1920 won't be worth any more than one minted in 2005, as an ounce is an ounce.

I think Opos' idea about having a couple of bags of "junk" silver is a good one, because if all you have are cartwheels, and the value of an ounce of silver becomes an agreed upon $15, then how do you get change back for a quart of milk at an agreed upon value of $2? So having a bunch of old worn quarters and dimes is a good idea. Same thing with gold coins. If you have a half-ounce coin valued at $500 and want to buy half a beef from a farmer for $250, how will he make change? That's where the old term "bits" came from when they used to chop up the coins into sections. So if one invests in gold coins I think it's a good idea there to also go with the smallest denominations possible.

[DerekP Houston]

I buy my junk silver bags from APMEX. I too was worried about getting counterfeit off of ebay and the price difference was negligible when i looked due to the ridiculous shipping/handling fees some vendors tack on. Kinda a bucket list thing for me, I just like the noise they make clinking together and it's fun for my son and I to have 'pirate treasure'

[Smoke4320]

2 bits, 3 bits, 4 bits a dollar

[merlin101]

I too use APMEX, but also buy some junk silver on fleabay and don't worry about counterfeit. Who is going to counterfeit an old 1960 quarter? Now silver rounds and bars are another thing! They only come from a trusted seller and most ebayers aren't trusted that much.

[rancher1913]

the numismatic coins will only be worth spot if shtf so I stay away from them. I keep pm's to pay taxs with if it gets really bad, as long as I have my land I can get by.

[dragon813gt]

the numismatic coins will only be worth spot if shtf so I stay away from them.

Who says coins will be worth anything in that scenario? Food, alcohol, tobacco and necessities will be worth their weight on gold(figuratively).

[prsman23]

Toilet paper even. Stock up. You'll be a poo paper mogul when shtf.
Get a warehouse and start filling it.


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[Blackwater]

Silver indeed DOES look like a very good investment at this time, and I have some. But I have it against the "what ifs" that we face, much moreso than as an "investment" that I might cash in on one day. As a hedge against all the "what ifs" we face, silver packs the most value into the smallest space possible. We've already been through the Great Depression, and it definitely COULD happen again, or some variation on the theme that's equally as dire. In most "what ifs," having silver is likely to provide one with a way to get things that they likely might not be able to get otherwise, and thus, is a way of conserving/preserving whatever wealth one has been able to accrue. But used this way, it's NOT something to sell when the price goes UP, because that's when you're most likely to need it most! It's a seeming paradox to many, but .... failing to understand this makes it a much less attractive alternative. Stocking fook and necessities like food, and ensuring you can get water from your deep well (even needle and thread, etc.) probably comes before silver in importance and desirability for a prepper. But silver definitely, I think, has its place in today's topsy-turvy world, where we cannot really "know" what's going to transpire next. I always think of Joseph stocking up for Egypt's 7 year drought in the Bible. He was wise. Had he not been, many if not most in Egypt would have died!

So nobody knows what the future will bring. But that's one reason TO prepare for the worst. "Aw, it's all gonna' be OK" may well NOT work out so well if another upheaval occurs. Let your conscience and your pocketbook decide for you how much and what to stock up on. But be SURE you can get good, clean water, no matter what. If electricity fails, and is unavailable, do you know what to do to your well to get it to continue giving you clean, fresh water? Can you pull a pump, and do you know how to draw water from that deep? All sorts of problems if our power structure goes out!

Silver's main advantage is that it concentrates a considerable value in a very small package, and thus, is easily hidden/protected. Worthy traits for consideration.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm not poo poking anybody or their preparations if the shift - but one thing that does sort of amaze me is all the ads on TV and in writing about "invest in silver". Of course the value is going to go up if there is a push to invest in it - it's called supply and demand.

My Dad was married and had a family during the Depression (my brother and i were a second family for him). He and my grandfather wee able to keep their business afloat during those years fortunately and I heard about the Depression every day I was growing up - that was just the way it was. If things do take a dump, it's not going to be anything like the Depression that our parents went through - it will be much worse. Think not? Just look at what is going on in today's world in this country - the attitude of the "left" and the snowflakes that are being raised where everything is about "them". During the Depression, our small town allocated meager funds to pay for feeding a meal to transients coming through who had hopped the train - people looked out for others. I remember my good friend, who was like a second father to me, telling how his mother, who was making the meager wages of a teacher in those days, would take her class home one day a week and feed them a bean dinner so he knew that they at least had a decent meal once during the week.

My point? Times have changed and if the shtf, it will be a dog eat dog world. Maybe those who are gathering silver will make out - maybe not. If it does happen, I personally think it will be a case of having commodities with which to barter - food, clothes, gas, etc. I say this with tongue in cheek but I wonder what all these people who HAVE to have their smart phones and other gadgets will do without them? Will they all line up for koolaide?

Let's hope it never comes to that. All the more reason to get behind this country and what is trying to be accomplished by Trump in regards to putting pride back in to being an American and doing away with all the politicians - regardless of which party they belong to - who are nothing but self-serving leeches instead of working for the citizens. Hopefully there enough good ones left to "get 'er done". If not, no Republic can survive . . . may not be today . . . may not be tomorrow . . . but the dreaded day will come eventually and we only have ourselves to blame . . . . .

[dverna]

Silver is not an investment for me. It is for SHTF. I have both US and Canadian coins. They have little risk of being counterfeit and are of known silver content.

If they appreciate, that is OK but if the SHTF, they are easy to use.....unlike gold.

I agree with those who have food, water, tools, guns and ammunition stocked before getting heavily into precious metal. Lead is another of the metals I store. About 2 tons.

[dragon813gt]

I'm not poo poking anybody or their preparations if the shift - but one thing that does sort of amaze me is all the ads on TV and in writing about "invest in silver". Of course the value is going to go up if there is a push to invest in it - it's called supply and demand.

A lot of the "investments" in silver are paper. You don't physically have possession of the silver. Just like money when it's made of paper there is no end to the supply. There is no way I'd invest heavily in this type of thing. Buying another safe to store it in is a lot more appealing.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

So interesting. I think everyone participating in this thread has made some good points.

I believe that silver has to be viewed as an expendable commodity just like food and gasoline. I wouldn't own it if my goal was to make money with it, because there are higher return investments available. Don't buy at $13 an ounce and figure to cash out at $25 an ounce. Put it away and figure to use it at some time in the future to buy something you would otherwise be without. That is where its real value lies. As already pointed out, if you cash out for a paper dollar profit then you won't have any silver if and when you need it. And when the paper dollars are finally recognized as being without value you'll be left with nothing at all.

Also of interest, silver has no real value to the ordinary man except as a medium of exchange. It has its industrial uses such as plating things to prevent tarnish and corrosion, uses in the electrical industry, some pharmaceutical value, but most of these uses are outside the realm of the ordinary man's life. It is conceivable that since it can't be eaten, and others might be reluctant to sell the more important things in life like food and clothing in a time of great need, an over abundance of hoarded silver might prove to have been better used in other areas. Same thing for gold, really; except that it makes great dental fillings!

[MaryB]

Silver is a hedge against inflation and loss of value of the dollar. You won't get rich buying/selling unless you can move half a million dollars worth at a shot when the market is up 2-3%...

I have a small amount just in case. A year after SHTF/dollar crash/depression when barter is becoming a pain the use of precious metals will start back up. So the key is having enough of everything else to survive a year!

[Love Life]

I love silver. I've been buying it since I was a kid and a roll of solve dimes was only $10.00 at the flea market.

I bought it because it was cool at the time and only looked at it as an investment when I got a little older.

I don't buy much anymore because I definitely think I have enough, lol.

Get a couple bags of coins to play with. It is fun to do.


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[Lloyd Smale]

I guess I don't see keeping it for a survival situation. IF shtf food and water is going to be the best barter material followed by things like guns, ammo, fuel, toilet paper ect. If we had a major event it youd probably die of old age before there was a demand for silver and gold to make high tech things. Id have to think an gold coin wouldn't buy you a box of 3030 shells. Not at my house anyway

[Love Life]

I guess I don't see keeping it for a survival situation. IF shtf food and water is going to be the best barter material followed by things like guns, ammo, fuel, toilet paper ect. If we had a major event it youd probably die of old age before there was a demand for silver and gold to make high tech things. Id have to think an gold coin wouldn't buy you a box of 3030 shells. Not at my house anyway

My thoughts as well.


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[StolzerandSons]

I guess I don't see keeping it for a survival situation. IF shtf food and water is going to be the best barter material followed by things like guns, ammo, fuel, toilet paper ect. If we had a major event it youd probably die of old age before there was a demand for silver and gold to make high tech things. Id have to think an gold coin wouldn't buy you a box of 3030 shells. Not at my house anyway
It really depends on the SHTF scenario how useful precious metals will be. I agree that in a natural disaster scenario you can't eat gold or silver and it's added weight to carry around. But what if the scenario is 1940's Germany? Gov't officials can't be bribed or bartered with for bread and water, guns, ammo or fuel since they have a ready supply of those things but they can be bribed with precious metals or precious gems.

Survival means different things depending on the situation, there are many scenarios where a small amount of precious metals can be the difference between life and death. It's not always about purchasing power sometimes it's about the commodity itself.

[jmort]

I guess I don't see keeping it for a survival situation. IF shtf food and water is going to be the best barter material followed by things like guns, ammo, fuel, toilet paper ect. If we had a major event it youd probably die of old age before there was a demand for silver and gold to make high tech things. Id have to think an gold coin wouldn't buy you a box of 3030 shells. Not at my house anyway

This makes sense

[jmort]

I think keeping cash around makes sense especially if you have a mortgage. Let's say we go Venezuelian, the "worthless" paper money will pay the mortgage at zero mark up/down.. Just think about selling a gun for a huge pile of cash. Get tradable goods. I don't smoke or drink distilled liquor, but around here that will be real nice to have for trade. Like Lloyd said, get stuff you can barter. I get extra stuff I use. This is one area the LDS is way ahead of us. Two years of food stored up.

[GhostHawk]

A First invest in food, weapons, ammo, knives, tools, stuff that keeps you alive and healthy. Especially so if it will do it without power.

B Get debt free, totally. Does not matter how much silver you have if someone can foreclose on your house and take all your stuff including the silver.

Then and only then a modest amount of silver is IMO reasonable.

I have mine, bought a lot of other stuff first and after.
If silver hits 1000$ an ounce yes I'll be happy. But I am not holding my breath.

We have some junk silver, for making change, 10 dimes makes it easy. Remember, the junk silver though is only 90%.

I have a fair stock of US silver dollars, some canadian silver, and a bunch of rounds.
They look like dollars but they were significantly less expensive. Same amount of silver, but not minted by the government. But there was no premium on them either. So I got them for 14$ and change instead of 17$.

Minor risk perhaps.

I've held mine for almost 2 years now, and I am glad I have it. I think long term it is a good hedge against inflation.

If you had enough precious metals to buy a nice house on the hill back in the early 1900's. That same pile of metal would still buy that same house on the hill today.

But don't neglect all the other things that are needed. Silver is only one of many.

[DerekP Houston]

It really depends on the SHTF scenario how useful precious metals will be. I agree that in a natural disaster scenario you can't eat gold or silver and it's added weight to carry around. But what if the scenario is 1940's Germany? Gov't officials can't be bribed or bartered with for bread and water, guns, ammo or fuel since they have a ready supply of those things but they can be bribed with precious metals or precious gems.

Survival means different things depending on the situation, there are many scenarios where a small amount of precious metals can be the difference between life and death. It's not always about purchasing power sometimes it's about the commodity itself.

That's my line of thinking. SHTF isn't always about a complete meltdown of humanity, could just be localized or hyperinflation or the sort. Same reason I keep some cash in the safe for emergencies, you never know when a hurricane here will throw things out of whack for a month or two and better safe than sorry.

[StolzerandSons]

I think keeping cash around makes sense especially if you have a mortgage. Let's say we go Venezuelian, the "worthless" paper money will pay the mortgage at zero mark up/down...
No, the worthless paper money wouldn't pay the mortgage because the banks and businesses refused to take the new currency when Venezuela declared the old notes had to be converted. The 100 Bolivar note was worth about 4 cents, how many do you need to pay your mortgage at those rates if you can convince your banker to accept them?

What happens if the scenario isn't Venezuela but Zimbabwe instead...even I am a trillionaire since I have 3-one trillion dollar Zim Notes that I kept as souvenirs. When your country issues a one hundred trillion dollar note you to can be a starving billionaire.

Diversity is the way to go...

[dragon813gt]

Remember, the junk silver though is only 90%.

There is also 35% war nickels, 40% Kennedy half dollars and 40% Eisenhower silver dollars. I wouldn't mind if someone thought the war nickels I have are 90% [emoji2]

[jmort]

No, the worthless paper money wouldn't pay the mortgage because the banks and businesses refused to take the new currency when Venezuela declared the old notes had to be converted. The 100 Bolivar note was worth about 4 cents, how many do you need to pay your mortgage at those rates if you can convince your banker to accept them?

What happens if the scenario isn't Venezuela but Zimbabwe instead...even I am a trillionaire since I have 3-one trillion dollar Zim Notes that I kept as souvenirs. When your country issues a one hundred trillion dollar note you to can be a starving billionaire.

Diversity is the way to go...

That would obviously boil down to a court decision. Is my dollar worth a dollar? I say yes. How do you pay a mortgage with bullion??? Fiat money is just that.

[williamwaco]

Who says coins will be worth anything in that scenario? Food, alcohol, tobacco and necessities will be worth their weight on gold(figuratively).


I believe there is a good chance that ammo will be more negotiable than silver coins. I keep some of both.

[StolzerandSons]

That would obviously boil down to a court decision. Is my dollar worth a dollar? I say yes. How do you pay a mortgage with bullion??? Fiat money is just that. You might say it's worth a dollar but I doubt the courts will when the Gov't is the one changing the currency.

Banks will hold bullion as collateral and defer payments until the currency stabilizes.

I don't have much bullion, I stick to U.S. coins mostly because of there easy provenance.

[jmort]

Since neither of us know, and I will defer to myself based on my education and vocation, we will have to disagree. If there is rule of law, then a dollar is a dollar, i.e. legal tender at par.

[StolzerandSons]

Since neither of us know, and I will defer to myself based on my education and vocation, we will have to disagree. If there is rule of law, then a dollar is a dollar, i.e. legal tender at par.
Rule of law changes based on who is in power. Rule of law goes out the window when there is panic and chaos.
I'll stick with history as my teacher...

As I said diversity is the way to go, it's a good idea to have 2-6 month cash on hand, some precious metals/gems and a year or more of basic usable and trade goods such as food, water, ammo, medical supplies, alcohol and/or a still, et. al... and this all really only applies after you clear up any debt you might have(including a mortgage).

[mold maker]

When it comes to paying your mortgage, the banks and lenders will accept silver and gold in favor of paper. They can't put your home and property in their safe, and precious metals are a much better bet than paper.
During the depression, my Dad had bought a car and couldn't make the payments. The bank didn't want another car and told him to put it in the barn and pay for it when he could. Without a job, he couldn't buy gas and there was nowhere better to go.
He did finally pay it off and the bank was as happy as he was.
We are no longer an agricultural society. The population without access to dirt outnumber the farmers. Any food available for trade or sale will be bought with real value, not faith in paper. When this country was on the Gold Standard, the paper had real value. Since then there is no value in paper money, just a perceived value backed by absolutely nothing, and as perminate and steady as vapor. You can safely bet paper money will decrease in value and will be balanced with an equal increase in precious metals value.
While not always a guaranteed investment, over the long haul it is only bettered by acreage of useable property, and you'll owe taxes on that.......

[BrassMagnet]

I too use APMEX, but also buy some junk silver on fleabay and don't worry about counterfeit. Who is going to counterfeit an old 1960 quarter? Now silver rounds and bars are another thing! They only come from a trusted seller and most ebayers aren't trusted that much.

China!
I have seen counterfeit silver dollars. There are also confirmed counterfeit silver half dollars. The nickel alloy counterfeits are so good now that you cannot identify them by measuring dimensions or weight. My info source is years old now and they may have gotten down to silver quarters and silver dimes by now.
How would you like to buy two silver dollars from different sources and find they were minted in the same years and even have the same exact scratches in them? If you must acid test them to prove they are not silver then you have destroyed any numismatic value they may have had if they were genuine silver. Who bothers to acid test junk silver? I believe the Chinese counterfeiters had also begun counterfeiting our new silver bullion coins; however, I believe the quality was not up to the US Mint quality. I am sure the Feds would pursue any FleaBayers selling them. There is a lot to be said for exercising caution in your purchases!

[Gray Fox]

I think a lot of us are missing the fact that the recounting of the car sitting in the garage until paid off requires a local bank that survived the Great Depression, much as the one depicted in the movie "It's a Wonderful Life". In our current situation do you think this would happen when the likes of Bank of America, Wells Fargo, or even the Naval Federal Credit Union go under? I don't have an answer as to what would be the best answer. I have some friends that work in the small Appalacian hill towns that could feed their families some extra protein for several months with one box of .30-30 or .308. Heck, they're probably doing it around their gardens year-round as I write this. Since he knows I'm a city dweller his trading goods from his garden and smoke house could get right sharp in order to get that ammo. Ten dimes or a silver dollar or two wouldn't help either of us in that situation for a very long time. Not only that, but I could trust that he wouldn't later decide to come after me with my own ammo to get whatever ammo and other items I had left. That in itself will be a major factor in any such bartering situation. It won't be nice for anyone. Just my $.02. GF

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There's certainly some truth in what you're saying, Gray Fox, but for years I've heard, "When the big collapse comes I'm taking my rifle, heading to the hills and living off the land." There are so many of us self-sufficient types that the woods will be pretty well striped out of venison in just a couple of months. Better, I'm thinking, to have a couple of years food supply on hand until things settle down a bit and until your crop(s) come in.

[dragon813gt]

More importantly. There are people already living in those hills. If you aren't a current resident you won't be welcome. People's plans for a total collapse scenario always amuse me. Stay at home and protect what you have. Anything else is quite foolish. Especially when going into areas where you aren't wanted.

[DerekP Houston]

More importantly. There are people already living in those hills. If you aren't a current resident you won't be welcome. People's plans for a total collapse scenario always amuse me. Stay at home and protect what you have. Anything else is quite foolish. Especially when going into areas where you aren't wanted.

My kit is too heavy to move or relocate, and honestly I'm probably in the 90% that will go in the first wave anyways ;). I'll stay put. Ranchers don't want you on their land RIGHT NOW, let alone in the scenarios some are thinking. Those few national parks around here will be over-run quite quickly.

[opos]

Well the original post sort of went astray but it's been interesting looking at all the different posts...but again, as I had said....we are 80 years old so "prepping" and living off the land would be about as realistic as playing hockey or mixed martial arts fighting at our age..

Mostly seems like having a few bags of 90% junk silver coins from a reputable dealer (not an investment...just a sort of insurance policy) should something occur that prevents us from accessing funds from the bank...thinking more along the lines of the big power outage we had some years ago that took out a huge amount of the South Western grid for a number of days...

If anything much happens that runs out past a week or so we will have to rely on our grown kids for help. When I was young I "lived off the land" frequently on long term elk and deer hunts, camping with the kids for a week or so at a time, etc in the Colorado mountains. Now I live in the heart of San Diego where roughing it has more become a motel room when we travel...we are both old and kind of banged up so "survival" in reality, is not something we spend much time thinking about.

Talked with a guy that is really fanatic about silver coins...he's been involved in them for decades and he made one sort of strange comment..he said they always have at least face value...I sort of kidded him and asked "if a 90% quarter is "worth" $3 today and the "bottom line fall back that it's always worth a quarter"...why not just buy common quarters by the bag full and assume they will always be worth a quarter...regardless of the silver content..he didn't answer and said he had to go...

I spoke with a man that I trust in the area...he has bags of silver junk coins...been amassing them for years...he has a larger dealer in our area that has always been straight with him and has a long and trusted reputation..so I'm going to see them and simply purchase a bag or two of $100 face at just barely over spot (about 3-4% is their mark up)...

Thanks for all the input and I learned a lot...

We used to laugh that if the SHTF scenario comes to pass we'll just head for the marina where I kept my offshore boat docked and steal the biggest yacht we can find that has full fuel tanks and a water maker and head into Mexico..probably really upset some guy from Arizona or Nevada (they all got the big boats here) but survival would be key...today I'm too old and banged up to even handle the lines on a big boat...that's why I sold mine some years ago..

thanks ago

[bob208]

check the public auctions and estate sales. know what spot price is then bid on them. that way you are not paying a dealer. just find out if they charge a buyers premium. me I will not go to a auction that charges one.

[MaryB]

Year after SHTF, things have settled down after 80% of the population has died. Markets spring up offering extra garden produce or an extra animal. Joe needs eggs but John who has eggs doesn't want to barter for wheat because he has plenty. Jim needs wheat but doesn't need anything. Joe trades Jim for the wheat and is paid 4 dimes that he them trades John for a dozen eggs. John hangs onto the dimes and next market day in the village he ends up trading them for some chicken feed... it will not be everyone for themselves after a year or so. Villages will form for protection, people will specialize, trade will resume and barter doesn't always work.

[rancher1913]

Mary that's my thinking. Nobody will get any ammo or powder from me that I would not trust with my life no matter how much gold or silver, don't want it being returned in an unfriendly manner. I will have food to sell but you had better have silver or gold because I don't need any trade and won't take paper money

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess to a point I can see them for an economic disaster. If the bottom falls out of paper money. This isn't the 30s or 40s. I think if something like the depression happened today it would be much worse. people today just aren't as self reliant as they were back then. My guess is if it did happen a rifle and a pile of ammo would go a lot farther toward keeping your house then a few gold coins would. I doubt the banks could survive well enough to demand payment of all the mortgages in the country. Want a precious metal consider this. If it is the US that goes through something like this Russia and china are probably coming for us. China more so because of all the money we owe them. Whats going to stop them? Bullets and bombs. Want a metal that goes way up in value when theres a big war? We already have it. Its lead. Lead, steel and aluminum are what armys need. Not a gold watch band or a necklace. Sure some of it is needed for electronics ect but id about bet the government already has plenty of it stockpiled to back the dollar and the little needed for electronics wouldn't put a dent in there supply. Typical day to day life of someone trying to survive requires very little shinny metal things. I might be wrong but heres my take on it.

Way back in time gold and silver were valuable because it was shinny. there was really not much practical use for it. Its no different today. Yes theres a small amount that's used in electronics. Maybe even more then a small amount today. But id bet 90 percent of the gold even today is sitting in safes or worn as jewelry. Its used to back up our currency more out of tradition then because its so needed to keep civilization going. If the country falls the electronic stuff isn't going to evaporate. Its just going to sit because of a lack of need and lack of power to run it. Id bet if civilization lasts long enough one day people are going to laugh at us and previous generations because of our obsession with a shinny rock. I know if shtf I need food water clothes guns ammo and faith in God. I would want batteries, toilet paper, soap, gas and things like that but bottom line is man got along without them in the past and probably would survive without them today (at least some of us) If I had to make a list of everything id want to save for bad times gold would down lower on the list then a six pack of bud and I haven't had a bud since last deer season so you know how important that is to me. A brick of lead would be much more important to me then a necklace or a silver dollar. I don't have gold or silver. Never did. But if I had a silver dollar I think id take it and sell it and buy all the toilet paper I could because my friends when shtf comes there will be poo on things other then the fan.

[mold maker]

Regardless of the economy, there will be classes of folks that profit from it. They can't store and protect, property or toilet paper so the precious metals will always be in demand. As long as I have gold and silver I can trade with them, for necessities.
Having precious metals will always guarantee the survival of the fittest, or those that are the haves.
Being a rare shiny rock was important to Chiefs and rulers from Adam and Eve on. God provided the necessities, and man traded upward to get gold and silver cause it was wealth.
The KISS rule applies here. Negation of a multi trade deal for most things is a drama created by TV writers. All trades will be for what is immediately at hand because of lack of trust.
Either because that's the way it's always been or because there is merit in it, man will always seek to have carryable, and tradable wealth.
Hunkered down with a hoard of anything will only mean it's the last thing you will run out of, but you have to stay in place to protect it. Having something of value (medium of exchange) that you can carry allows you to seek greener pastures beyond eyesight.
If the SHTF really ever happens wide spread, those who dream of survival in the wild, better be prepared to kill their fellow man to protect their little section of the wild, because there will be stiff competition for it. Along the coast states there is very little wild left and many more seeking it.

[opos]

I can't help but think about the place common salt played in the world economy and world history many centuries ago..It's always been kind of fun to try and compare the craze and passion for salt with gold and silver...in many ways common salt has more value to human life than either gold or silver but it's "give away" cheap...wars were fought over salt...the bible is full of references to salt...worlds rose and fell on the conquest for salt..

Maybe I'll go buy a ton of rock salt and put it in the garage. Nobody will steal it...it's sometihng that if handled right won't disappear....and if the SHTF who's going to supply McDonalds with those little packets of salt? Me!

[JBinMN]

I can't help but think about the place common salt played in the world economy and world history many centuries ago..It's always been kind of fun to try and compare the craze and passion for salt with gold and silver...in many ways common salt has more value to human life than either gold or silver but it's "give away" cheap...wars were fought over salt...the bible is full of references to salt...worlds rose and fell on the conquest for salt..

Maybe I'll go buy a ton of rock salt and put it in the garage. Nobody will steal it...it's sometihng that if handled right won't disappear....and if the SHTF who's going to supply McDonalds with those little packets of salt? Me!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Roman legions were paid in salt for it was a precious commodity. The English word “Salary” comes down to us from that practice. The word Soldier also derives from the Latin words “Sal Dare” to give salt.
;)

Salt would be more useful than precious metals in many places.

{I happen to have more salt than precious metals myself. I find it more useful ...like for preserving & flavoring foods..LOL My oldest son is the one with the silver coinage. He lives in a city. I live in a rural community. He would use his to get him & his family to me if needed. Where ya live & where you would like to end up, might be something to take into account.}
;)

Interesting topic.
:)

[Kestrel4k]

Have been reading this thread with interest (along with the occasional skepticism :)).

+1 on the toilet paper, certainly.

Some here may find the following Selco interview interesting:
Words from a Bosnian Survivalist (http://inresco.org/bosniaf/words_bosnia.html)
Some members may follow his blog (http://shtfschool.com/blog/) as there is a wealth of good information there.

Some may have read the book "One Second After" - it is an excellent book & I've read it a couple of times.
Feel free to message me if you are interested in a .PDF copy. (I also have a more-readable copy of the Selco interview as well.)

Best regards,

[dragon813gt]

I can't help but think about the place common salt played in the world economy and world history many centuries ago..

Ever read "Alas Babylon"? Salt is one of the things they have to go looking for the survive. It was a mandatory read in high school. Was one of the few I actually enjoyed.

[DerekP Houston]

Funny you mention salt....I keep a few extra boxes of kosher salt and buy the cooking stuff in 5lb bags. It really is the difference between food that tastes blah and awesome for us. Never know when the deep freeze will go on the fritz and I have to cook/salt all the meat instead of it spoiling.


Ever read "Alas Babylon"? Salt is one of the things they have to go looking for the survive. It was a mandatory read in high school. Was one of the few I actually enjoyed.b


I got a second copy of that recently on Audible so I could listen to it again during my commute. Any other recommendations along that genre? Ready Player One was pretty enjoyable as well except for Wil Wheaton being the voice actor selected ;).

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

hmmm, I generally have some canning salt on hand, but never though of having more than a one lb box. Maybe I need to rethink that?

[opos]

I knew I"d start something...lol...bet there will be salt dealers springing up all over and on e bay...and probably daily quotes of "spot salt values".....just shows what is important at the time is what has value....and things that once had value have little and things that have no value today may be the thing that keeps the "wheels turning" in the future...just shows me a couple bags of 90% quarters is for fun and possible very short term help but no way can a person prep for every contingency...

[DerekP Houston]

I knew I"d start something...lol...bet there will be salt dealers springing up all over and on e bay...and probably daily quotes of "spot salt values".....just shows what is important at the time is what has value....and things that once had value have little and things that have no value today may be the thing that keeps the "wheels turning" in the future...just shows me a couple bags of 90% quarters is for fun and possible very short term help but no way can a person prep for every contingency...

never fear, a stray comment can lead a prepper down another rabbit hole of stock piles ;). I like to brine my meats and such so I use more salt than the average consumer I'd wager. I still have a bit of my granny with me, can't pass up a sale on something that won't spoil or need refrigeration.

[StolzerandSons]

I knew I"d start something...lol...bet there will be salt dealers springing up all over and on e bay...and probably daily quotes of "spot salt values".....just shows what is important at the time is what has value....and things that once had value have little and things that have no value today may be the thing that keeps the "wheels turning" in the future...just shows me a couple bags of 90% quarters is for fun and possible very short term help but no way can a person prep for every contingency...
So true, what has value is based on what you need at the time you need it. My favorite example is paintings(Picasso, Rembrandt, etc.) in today's market many painting will be valued at millions of dollars to collectors but if you happen to be in a blizzard freezing to death the wooden frame has more value than the painting does. Need determines value in most survival cases.

[rancher1913]

we have always kept a good supply of salt. one other thing to stock is vinegar, the pioneers always took a barrel with them for preserving.

[mold maker]

Salt is just one more thing the Dr and health nuts say I don't need. Most prepared foods already have way more than adequate. Along these lines, Sugar holds the same disdain. Doc said it would truly kill me. If red meat is ever removed from my diet, ya might as well just give away my silver, and use one of my boolits. Some things just aren't worth living without.

[historicfirearms]

I guess I don't see keeping it for a survival situation. IF shtf food and water is going to be the best barter material followed by things like guns, ammo, fuel, toilet paper ect. If we had a major event it youd probably die of old age before there was a demand for silver and gold to make high tech things. Id have to think an gold coin wouldn't buy you a box of 3030 shells. Not at my house anyway
As usual I am with Lloyd on this one. Useful things will get traded if the economy fails. To me a silver coin is even less useful than a dollar bill. At least the bill could be used to wipe your butt.

[jonp]

Buy US, CA, AU etc government issued coinage. I'd stay away from other stuff. Not because Silverlode or others would make a stamping of less than the advertised weight but that most people won't know who they are.

[jonp]

As usual I am with Lloyd on this one. Useful things will get traded if the economy fails. To me a silver coin is even less useful than a dollar bill. At least the bill could be used to wipe your butt.

I keep some for inflation, depression etc reasons. I agree with Lloyd. If SHTF all the money in the world is not going to buy my food off of me but with enough ammo I'll take everything you have.

[rancher1913]

I keep some for inflation, depression etc reasons. I agree with Lloyd. If SHTF all the money in the world is not going to buy my food off of me but with enough ammo I'll take everything you have.

Rember there is a butcher for every bull

[jonp]

Rember there is a butcher for every bull

Tis True

[GhostHawk]

Salt is one of the staples of life. And a box of salt sealed into a vacumn sealed bag stays good forever. As does a 10 lb sack of sugar. Honey is another good one.

Prague mix for curing bacon/hams is another. Just be careful with it, read directions.

Instead of bleach I bought 4 1lb bottles of the chemical they make bleach from. 1 tablespoon for 2 gallons. Store bought bleach has about a one year shelf life. Dry chemical in a sealed bottle will stay usable for decades. And it can be used to purify water, disinfect surgical tools in a pinch, plus lots of other things.

[MaryB]

I have 5 100 pound bags of salt stashed in the pantry. And worst case softener salt is edible, just not as pure. Bulk salt from the feed store, good enough for meat curing if needed!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

;)

Salt would be more useful than precious metals in many places.

{I happen to have more salt than precious metals myself. I find it more useful ...like for preserving & flavoring foods..LOL My oldest son is the one with the silver coinage. He lives in a city. I live in a rural community. He would use his to get him & his family to me if needed. Where ya live & where you would like to end up, might be something to take into account.}
;)

Interesting topic.
:)

[JBinMN]

Rember there is a butcher for every bull

Remember....And never forget it.
;)

[JBinMN]

I have 5 100 pound bags of salt stashed in the pantry. And worst case softener salt is edible, just not as pure. Bulk salt from the feed store, good enough for meat curing if needed!

+1 Yep.
;)

Same with the "pool chlorine shock stuff". ( I forget the chemical name that makes "chlorine" to purify water) There is a lot of things worth way more than Silver & Gold in a lot of places.... Just have to remember... "Never put all of your eggs in one basket.".
;)

Unless maybe at Christmas...
;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azcj749wMIU

[BrassMagnet]

Funny you mention salt....I keep a few extra boxes of kosher salt and buy the cooking stuff in 5lb bags. It really is the difference between food that tastes blah and awesome for us. Never know when the deep freeze will go on the fritz and I have to cook/salt all the meat instead of it spoiling.




I got a second copy of that recently on Audible so I could listen to it again during my commute. Any other recommendations along that genre? Ready Player One was pretty enjoyable as well except for Wil Wheaton being the voice actor selected ;).

Going Home by A. American
Lights Out by David Crawford

[Der Gebirgsjager]

+1 Yep. Just have to remember... "Never put all of your eggs in one basket.".
;)

Good advice! That's why the French lost at Dien Bien Phu. They put all their Basques in one exit. :wink:

[jonp]

Good advice! That's why the French lost at Dien Bien Phu. They put all their Basques in one exit. :wink:

:drinks: Nice pun

[jonp]

Salt is one of the staples of life. And a box of salt sealed into a vacumn sealed bag stays good forever. As does a 10 lb sack of sugar. Honey is another good one.

Prague mix for curing bacon/hams is another. Just be careful with it, read directions.

Instead of bleach I bought 4 1lb bottles of the chemical they make bleach from. 1 tablespoon for 2 gallons. Store bought bleach has about a one year shelf life. Dry chemical in a sealed bottle will stay usable for decades. And it can be used to purify water, disinfect surgical tools in a pinch, plus lots of other things.

20lbs in mylar bags. 10lbs in 2 locations. Sugar the same way. Several large jars of honey. Several bottles of bleach, they were free, rotated. In a worst case scenario cleanliness will keep you alive.

Purify drinking straws, rice, dried beans etc.

[JBinMN]

Good advice! That's why the French lost at Dien Bien Phu. They put all their Basques in one exit. :wink:


:drinks: Nice pun

Yes it was.
:D

[Lloyd Smale]

don't get me wrong. I would probably say that things like silver and gold will have some value if shtf. Its just to ingrained I our psych to crave shinny things. Problem with it is theres things you can buy today with that silver that will be worth a heck of a lot more then plain silver if it happens. THings like salt, rice, beans, guns, ammo ect. I know if shtf id feel lot better with a 1000 dollars in ammo and food then I would some shinny dimes. There will be enough people trying to swap there gold and silver for food and essentials. Pick it up then when it is much cheaper then buying it today to squirrel away. Accumulate it when it takes a bar of gold to buy a 2lb bag of rice. not your entire savings account and the money you could be using to by stuff you will REALLY need.

[snowwolfe]

I can't imagine anything better than Glock 9 mm's and ammo for them.

[LUBEDUDE]

Great discussion, lots of good views and opinions.

It has been said that "those who have the gold makes the rules, aka The Golden Rule".

However, when the SHTF those that have the survival essentials will make the rules. It will be primarily up to them to determine the value of precious metals.

[Sam Casey]

Agree with most of above. In worst case scenarios precious metals may not have value of other necessary tangibles such as food, water, ammo, weapons, etc. As an investment, I prefer representative securities such as GLD where there is a legitimate market to buy & sell, rather than some sleazy pawnbroker or coin dealer who will sharply discount value when you try to sell.

[jonp]

+1 Yep.
;)

Same with the "pool chlorine shock stuff". ( I forget the chemical name that makes "chlorine" to purify water) There is a lot of things worth way more than Silver & Gold in a lot of places.... Just have to remember... "Never put all of your eggs in one basket.".
;)

Unless maybe at Christmas...
;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azcj749wMIU

Sodium or Calcium Hypochlorite. Make sure to buy the pure stuff not the stuff mixed with algaecides, fungecides etc.. I bought a pool tablet for $1 at WalMart last week end and made some bleach from it yesterday. 2 TBS of crushed tablet with 3 cups of water makes bleach. 8 drops of this per gallon of water will disinfect it. Do not trust my math, do it yourself but I think this is correct.

5% Calcium or Sodium Hypochorite to 95% Water for the bleach solution.

[labradigger1]

Salt has built many empires, your body needs it. You need it for curing, canning, seasoning and many other uses. it will again be needed.

[rancher1913]

I agree about salt but I think its barter value may not be as great as it should. preserving with salt is almost a lost art, those that know how to do it already have a large stash of salt. you can purchase salt blocks at a farm store and just stack them in a dry place.

[MaryB]

GLD is backed by 1/10(or less) of the gold they have sold. Good luck cashing out too during a banking run!


Agree with most of above. In worst case scenarios precious metals may not have value of other necessary tangibles such as food, water, ammo, weapons, etc. As an investment, I prefer representative securities such as GLD where there is a legitimate market to buy & sell, rather than some sleazy pawnbroker or coin dealer who will sharply discount value when you try to sell.

[mold maker]

Well, what happens if the SHTF never happens? There is going to be a lot of folks with soggy salt or storage space full of "just in case".
Silver may tarnish, which is no real problem, but gold will always be the same bright metal regardless of how it's kept, and is recognized everywhere.
I know where to put my trust in the future and where to put my offering for its safety. I don't think the salt, beans, or ammo will fit in the plate when it's passed on Sunday.

[JBinMN]

Well, what happens if the SHTF never happens? There is going to be a lot of folks with soggy salt or storage space full of "just in case".
Silver may tarnish, which is no real problem, but gold will always be the same bright metal regardless of how it's kept, and is recognized everywhere.
I know where to put my trust in the future and where to put my offering for its safety. I don't think the salt, beans, or ammo will fit in the plate when it's passed on Sunday.

We use & replenish, then stock up more as we use what we have, when & while we can....
Kind of like with reloading & casting supplies, isn't it....

So, if SHTF doesn't happen , so be it. We still have what we have & in my case, my sons will have it.

Kind of like the parable/fable of the grasshopper & ant, IIRC.
;)

[snowwolfe]

I don't stockpile any food other than what fits inside our pantry and freezers. I just don't believe things will ever be that bad we are trading salt, coffee, etc. That's my opinion:) You are free to live by yours.

[DerekP Houston]

We use & replenish, then stock up more as we use what we have, when & while we can....
Kind of like with reloading & casting supplies, isn't it....

So, if SHTF doesn't happen , so be it. We still have what we have & in my case, my sons will have it.

Kind of like the parable/fable of the grasshopper & ant, IIRC.
;)

Eh, I was big into stock piling for awhile and then lost the urge. Just like you described it didn't really hurt anything except we ate all the food for a few months and saved on grocery bills. Most of the stuff I buy will be used *eventually* it's just like stocking up on primers when they are on sale. I was going to by them anyways I just accelerate the time table so I get a better deal.

I'm a big fan of paying cash for things and getting a good deal. I enjoy filling the freezer once a year and not worrying about watching ad's or shopping each week. My parents were more the daily shoppers cause they enjoy the trips out, I took more after my grandparents. Something about seeing the volume discounts really appeals to me. And no I don't store more than we could reasonably expect to use up with perishable items.

[jmort]

One look at Venezuela tells me otherwise
History tells me otherwise

[dragon813gt]

I don't stockpile any food other than what fits inside our pantry and freezers. I just don't believe things will ever be that bad we are trading salt, coffee, etc. That's my opinion:) You are free to live by yours.

I don't see it either unless there is a meteor strike or Yellowstone erupts. Call me an optimist but if we fall the entire world falls. China is so tied into our economy they can't let us fail like Venezuela. Not saying it can't happen. Just that I don't believe it will.

[JBinMN]

:)

I would rather, "Have & not need... than "Need & not have."
:)

Of course, Ya'll do what ya like.
;)

[jrayborn]

Venezuela, Argentina, Russia, Germany, Cyprus, Greece, England, Zimbabwe. All have suffered financial catastrophe in the modern age. What makes people think it won't happen here? EVERY fiat currency in history has eventually failed.

I have home-owners insurance.
Medical Insurance.
Car Insurance.

Why would you NOT have some kind of financial insurance and food insurance? When money fails, food is scarce. Sometimes very scarce. And it seems more and more people are moving from rural to urban living centers. Venezuela is an example for us all to learn from that we can study right now.

It's not fear, its common sense. Be a sheepdog, not a sheep folks.