CFE Black as a 4759 replacement?

[TMenezes]

Hi guys, I was looking over Hodgdon Data for 500 S&W and noticed CFE Black. Its very bulky so it runs out of case space before you run into too much pressure. Its clean burning, and seems to like low pressures. This guy on youtube was getting shockingly low deviations. Now I just gotta try and find some locally, anybody else try this stuff? For any caliber but 500's in particular would be awesome.

Thanks guys

[Bohica793]

I use it in subsonic 300 Blackout. It is a very fine powder (almost like dust), meters like water and does produce very low spreads and low pressures in my rounds. I am not sure how that will translate to other calibers.

[waco]

Looks to be right around the same burn rate as SR4759. the OP said it's a bulky powder? Can others confirm this?
Sounds like it would have a lot of applications if so.
Waco

[TMenezes]

Sure looks like its bulky from the data, they usually load the 500 s&w to about 50k psi, but every single load using this powder hits max compression and ends up being around 35k psi. The starting loads are mostly around 22k to 26k. That should tame the recoil nicely, my poor sgt had to get his hand ex-rayed after shooting full power loads of 300 MP. So looking for a 4759 type powder that fills a massive case, brings lower pressure, and high degree of accuracy.

[dragon813gt]

CFE BLK VMD - .05384
SR4759 VMD - .09930

As a comparison Trail Boss is .21716 and H110 is .06555. What I'm saying is CFE BLK is a ball powder that isn't bulky.

[TMenezes]

I'm not familure with those numbers, but I'm thinking its a different definition of bulk than I meant. I need a powder that like 4759 fills the huge S&W case long before high pressure hits. I also want it to be very accurate.

I'm thinking CFE Black is to my 500 what 4759 would be if I could find it.

Pressure wise its data sits right between Trail Boss (not powerful enough) and IMR 4227 (wasn't producing the accuracy I am looking for.

Was just hoping one of you guys might have tried it in this or similar application.

[dragon813gt]

VMD is the multiplier for finding out how many CCs a grain takes up. As an example 10 grains of Trail Boss takes up 2.1716 CC. 10 grains of CFE BLK will take up .5384 CC. It's not a bulky powder. There is only one definition and that's how much space it takes up in a case.

I'm assuming you know that burn rate charts are relative. There is no correlation between how much faster/slower powders are in relation to those next to them. There could be a big bump even though they are listed next to each other.

CFE BLK may very well fill a case before there are any pressure issues. I don't use the powder because I only shoot Cast in my 300 BLK.

[TMenezes]

You should try it then and let me know, according to the other 300 blackout loaders I was talking to it isn't the fastest powder as it runs out of case way before it gets to max pressure. But its accurate, with very low SD, burns very clean, shoots sub sonic or non sub equally well, and IS CAST BOOLIT FRIENDLY which is nice :-)

[bns454]

BLC-2,H322,H335 also work well for stable reduced recoil,there is data out there but you have to dig for it.Include John Ross and 500 magnum in the search and something should come up.I will give that CFE Black a try also.

[TMenezes]

Thank you bns454, I certainly appreciate it. I plan to check all the local places but I highly doubt its here. I keep an eye on the very few places that sell powder here and I've never seen it before. I find it online but that means an 8 pounder to make the hazmat not sting so much. That would be allot of powder that I don't even know if I like yet. Might have to drive all the way to San Jose an see if Bass Pro has it.

[22454]

This powder is bulky compared to magnum handgun powders. 46.8 gr is the most I have managed to get behind my checked 440gr Lees. This is a good amount shy of what Hodgdon publishes as max for 440 gr CPB LGC. I can't say much about accuracy as I am getting used to the new 7.5" BFR. It does make a louder bang and more smoke than H110.

[TMenezes]

What was the recoil like compared to a full charge of H-110?

[22454]

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[TMenezes]

Bummer, was hoping since the pressure is supposed to be low that would equate to a lower recoil impulse, since it's slower than H110 it made sense that the recoil would be less sharp as well.