15/16" Smoothbore

[rodwha]

What is the largest a 15/16" octagon barrel can be bored to for a smooth barrel?

Initially I had been told that 28 ga (.550") was about it. However Lyman .54 cal PRB barrels have grooves around .560" making a 26 ga (.564") the minimum one could go to as a max. However it seems I came across someone who stated Bobby Hoyt made his a .58 cal (roughly 24 ga).

As I'd certainly love to have a drop-in barrel for my Lyman that I could do some turkey hunting with I'd much prefer the largest gauge I could get and would certainly work on patterns as a smoothbore but if I couldn't concentrate enough pellets at 25 yds I'd have a screw-in choke installed.

Now I've felt that a 28 ga was too small for turkey, though I know some do and that some even use a .410. But this is also with a modern shotgun for on what I understand outside of one guy. Some use these for dove and do well (I'm not that great of a wing shooter needing a bit more shot than that!).

And that one guy has found that his smoothbore does well with a heavier powder charge and 1 oz shot load (essentially a BP 16 ga load assuming he used ~75 grns of powder). This bends the typical understanding that a square load patterns best in a BP gun. According to the max loads given for a .54 cal and a conical this type of load is well within reason and something I'd work up to if a square load didn't perform.

[Lonegun1894]

I have a GM .54 smoothbore barrel Ive been using on a GPR stock for years, and it works great. But my turkey load is more along the lines of the heavy load you mentioned. My rabbit/squirrel/dove load is a typical 28ga load.

[scattershot]

You might call Mr. Hoyt and see what he has to say about it. FWIW, I have an antique 14 gauge fowler that starts out around 15/16" at the breech, but is paper thin at the muzzle. The limiting factor is your powder charge. If you're not hunting elephants, I'd say .58 is doable.

[KCSO]

The shotgun generaly has less pressure than a rifled gun so the barrel dimensions are a little more flexible. I would not go any more than 58 calibre in a 15?16 in barrel max and then I would want my loads in the 9000 psi range at the max. Say 80 grains of FFg and 1 1/4 Oz of shot. Although the barrel would likely stand more. Remember this will be shot in a rifle stock and not a shotgun stock.

[rodwha]

I had run across one account of a 15/16" being turned into a 24 ga. Many claim the walls would be too thin and no one would do the work.

I'd only care to take it to 24 ga as many also claim anything beyond a square load just doesn't work well, and I'd not feel so comfy using 55 grns and 3/4 oz of shot unless he were mighty close. Maybe if I tried Wile E Coyote's method of a trail of bird seed right to my position... But then it never worked for him and often backfired. ��

[rodwha]

Part of me has also contemplated just going 28 ga and using modern shot cups. I recently found a site that sounds interesting. It includes 24 ga, which I thought was only a muzzleloader gauge.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/mobile/Small-Bore-Wads/products/661/

[rfd]

call bobby hoyt and get the opinion of an expert who's business is barrel making and modifying.

[rodwha]

Bobby Hoyt is especially who I'd call. But I know he's busy and wouldn't bother him until I'm ready to do something about this, which will likely be after Christmas as SWMBO wants to change it up and so I'll stick it in the "something you need" section since I haven't asked for firearms related stuff in a couple of years.

[rodwha]

The shotgun generaly has less pressure than a rifled gun so the barrel dimensions are a little more flexible. I would not go any more than 58 calibre in a 15?16 in barrel max and then I would want my loads in the 9000 psi range at the max. Say 80 grains of FFg and 1 1/4 Oz of shot. Although the barrel would likely stand more. Remember this will be shot in a rifle stock and not a shotgun stock.

80 grns and 1 1/4 oz would be about the max I'd see being needed (12 ga load there).

The stock I have is a Lyman Deerstalker. Kinda like a modern shotgun.

[pietro]

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My smoothbore T/C Renegade was a .56cal (Model 56SB), in which I occasionally shot using 28ga shotcups & over shot wads for small game.

The SB barrel was 1" across-the-flats, and I would think that T/C figured that a .56cal was the upper limit for a 1" bbl, never mind for a thinner 15/16" bbl.

I normally used a PRB for deer in the 56SB, back when my state mandated smoothbore frontstuffers for deer.

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[rodwha]

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My smoothbore T/C Renegade was a .56cal (Model 56SB), in which I occasionally shot using 28ga shotcups & over shot wads for small game.

The SB barrel was 1" across-the-flats, and I would think that T/C figured that a .56cal was the upper limit for a 1" bbl, never mind for a thinner 15/16" bbl.

I normally used a PRB for deer in the 56SB, back when my state mandated smoothbore frontstuffers for deer.

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Lyman makes their 15/16" barrels in .54 cal with .560" grooves and show a max charge of 110 grns of 2F or 90 grns of 3F for a 450 grn Maxi.

And the one account of a 15/16" being turned into a 24 ga was made by Bobby Hoyt. But others have said the walls would be too thin, and it does seem a bit so, but then I don't understand pressures vs barrel thickness.

[Lonegun1894]

Investarms used to offer their "hawken" in .58 caliber-- and it was a 15/16" barrel. I used to have one. A friend of mine has a TC 1" with a 20ga (.620") smoothbore, so you can definitely go bigger than .54" in a 15/16" and bigger than .56" in a 1". Now what may change that is how deep the dovetails or screw holes in any particular barrel are, but that's where you get into more than just the outside diameter.

[Edward]

.

My smoothbore T/C Renegade was a .56cal (Model 56SB), in which I occasionally shot using 28ga shotcups & over shot wads for small game.

The SB barrel was 1" across-the-flats, and I would think that T/C figured that a .56cal was the upper limit for a 1" bbl, never mind for a thinner 15/16" bbl.

I normally used a PRB for deer in the 56SB, back when my state mandated smoothbore frontstuffers for deer.

. Bob Hoyt bored my 1 inch TC 56 smooth bore out to 62 cal (20 ga)and it shoots turkey killer patterns @ 25yds with 5 shot and 80 grain 2F ,and it balances better with that big hole ,and squirrels are in big trouble :bigsmyl2: / Ed

[rodwha]

Now I am looking forward to having a smoothbore as it opens up so many options. But my utmost hope is that I can get a good turkey load. And with that in mind, and initially assuming 26 ga was about as large as I could go I figured maybe just going 28 ga and adding screw-in chokes (yeah I'm not exactly a purist) would be the key.

So with 24 ga being an option and with an average 20 ga load I can keep it a cylinder bore or go 28 ga and choke it. Which would you choose and why?

[Lonegun1894]

I would say it depends on where you hunt and any restrictions you have to limit yourself with. I mean, things like toxic vs. non-toxic shot, shot size, weather or not you plan on using a choke, etc. the devil is in the details.

[OverMax]

15/16s across its flats. I doubt such barrel could be re-bored large than 52 cal.

[rodwha]

We have no restrictions outside of shotguns. I'd use lead shot and depending on how much I can get to pattern well and penetrate a tuna can with would decide on what size (7 1/2 to 5).

I'd really like to pattern well enough to 30 yds at the least but would much prefer a bit longer. I'd almost prefer to leave it a cylinder bore if I knew it would pattern well. It seems most people claim the only way to get a good pattern is with a square load which leaves it a little light for my liking, though a full/extra full choke may well make a big difference. 3/4 of shot at 1050 fps seems a bit light and with a low velocity I'd likely need to up the shot size further reducing the pellet count and numbers on the can. But then with a choke I feel I certainly should be able to up the powder charge and velocity.

Safe path and just go 28 ya with a screw-in choke?

Oh, and I was most interested in jug choking but couldn't find anyone who does it on anything smaller than a 20 ga. I'd go that route were it an option. No fuss. Otherwise I have to swap chokes (I'd not care to load with bare threads) to load and to shoot.

I must admit I've never hunted turkey despite being in my mid 40's. So I'm not sure how close I could call a tom in or if I'd even be able to do a good job with a call.

But I LOVE smoked turkey for Thanksgiving and would like to try a real one.

[rodwha]

15/16s across its flats. I doubt such barrel could be re-bored large than 52 cal.

They already produce a .54 cal with .56 cal grooves.

[rodwha]

For those of you who have a 28-24 ga with a cylinder bore and using heavier loads what load are you usin and, how far can you shoot and get 10 pellets to penetrate a tuna can with?

It seems the for sure way is to just go 28 ga with screw-in chokes. I've looked into jug choking but cannot find anyone who will do it on anything less than a 20 ga. But I'd certainly choose a no fuss jug choke over swapping chokes to load and shoot.

Most people state that a square load is the best pattern. But for a 28 ga this is 55 grns of powder and 3/4 oz of shot at roughly 1050 fps. With that speed I'd likely need to up the shot size for penetration which would reduce the pellet count and bring the max range much closer. Not ideal. It seems a full/extra full choke would certainly allow for a heavier powder charge to bring up the velocity and even the old 7/8 oz pellet load or 16 ga 1 oz pellet load.

[waksupi]

For those of you who have a 28-24 ga with a cylinder bore and using heavier loads what load are you usin and, how far can you shoot and get 10 pellets to penetrate a tuna can with?

It seems the for sure way is to just go 28 ga with screw-in chokes. I've looked into jug choking but cannot find anyone who will do it on anything less than a 20 ga. But I'd certainly choose a no fuss jug choke over swapping chokes to load and shoot.

Most people state that a square load is the best pattern. But for a 28 ga this is 55 grns of powder and 3/4 oz of shot at roughly 1050 fps. With that speed I'd likely need to up the shot size for penetration which would reduce the pellet count and bring the max range much closer. Not ideal. It seems a full/extra full choke would certainly allow for a heavier powder charge to bring up the velocity and even the old 7/8 oz pellet load or 16 ga 1 oz pellet load.

My guns kill better with more shot than powder by volume.
It just takes some experimenting on sheets of newspaper to find the sweet spot

[rodwha]

My guns kill better with more shot than powder by volume.
It just takes some experimenting on sheets of newspaper to find the sweet spot

I'd certainly love to hear about your experiences with such. I know you to be a knowledgeable one in things BP.

[Lonegun1894]

I'll second Waksupi's statement.

Here's my method/theory with my .54, and it applies to any shotload. What's your purpose? The "square load" is great for flying game like dove where you need all your shot to hit the target area at once because the target is in flight. However, with a stationary target such as a turkey's head, where it doesn't matter if there is a long shot string, a heavier load of shot can give you an advantage. My turkey load used about 1 1/2 oz of shot, and this is in a .54/28ga. Now to be fair, this is fired from a gun with 15/16" barrel, exactly like what you're talking about, and not some light fowler with paper-thin walls. So it's safe in my gun and I bet it'll be safe in your heavy gun too, but it might not be in some light fowler. This is pushed by 90grs of FFFg in my case, and my patterns are good to 30-35 yards. But this isn't the typical 28ga load of 3/4-7/8oz shot pushed by 55grs powder either. And my gun shot is cylinder bore, cause chokes are just a pain to load through. So I just figured I'd accept whatever range limitation it gave me instead of forcing myself to live with a gun I wouldn't use cause it's a pain to load.

For what it's worth, I'd say just expect to have to experiment with different loads and you keep good notes so you know what worked and what didn't. Don't expect modern performance, but that also doesn't mean give up after a couple loads tried. You'll like this journey, but there'll be a few times along the way when this'll make you want a drink. :)

[KCSO]

I have a horn measure for my Fusil and it has a ring inside so up to the ring is 80 grains of FFg and to the top is the shot load, IIRR 1 1/8 or so of shot. This is my hunting load and shoots well with a round ball too.

[rodwha]

I actually forgot for a moment that I'd like to be able to shoot PRB as well so I'd not go 26 ga since I'd need some really thick patching for that to work. And quite frankly it seems .550" is the better idea regardless as I intend on a .54 cal anyway and I certainly like sharing components.

Sure do wish I could find someone who would jug choke a 28 ga...

So what kind of effective distance are you fellas getting with your loads? Roughly how far can you expect to pepper a turkey's head?

I've read that heavier pellet loads to powder keeps the shot column tighter but sacrifices energy thereby needed larger pellets. I'd certainly like the details of your loads guys.

I love range time and testing loads, though I suppose using shot is a lot more tedious requiring target change outs each shot.

Lonegun: 30-35 yds is at least what I'm after and would be happy enough with that.

KCSO: What bore is your Fusil?

Are you guys all using 2F? I often read people stating they get better patterns using hat or even 1F, but with a few using 3F. I'd certainly start testing with 3F as it's all I currently use and I like to keep things simple.

Anyone know if Bobby Hoyt can/will ream smooth with a fixed choke such as improved cylinder or light modified? That wouldn't be too difficult to load loose components through.

I've wondered about dove and quail but a single shot muzzleloader just seems absurd. Still a bit of fun but not likely to come back with enough birds for more than just me I'd guess as I'm not an excellent wing shooter. My old boss with his O/U would usually come close to limiting in a day whereas I'd often come in about half or a bird or three above it with an auto with an extra shell.

[Lonegun1894]

Here's a copy of my load notes. The gun is a Lyman GPR stock, Lyman glint lock, and s Green Mountain .54" smoothbore barrel that is 32" long.

"28ga:
60gr FFFg, 2 cardboard OP cards, 1 oz #6 shot, 1 OS card

70gr FFFg, 1 cardboard OP card, 6" jute cord frayed into a ball of fiber for use as TOW, 1 more cardboard OP card, 1 7/8 oz #6 shot, 1 OS card

70 gr FFFg, 2 leather OP wad/cards, patched .527 RB or .515 PRB, with different patch thicknesses of course.

28ga:
small game: 60gr FFFg, 2 cardboard OP cards, 1 oz #6 shot, 1 OS card


turkey: 70gr FFFg, 1 cardboard OP card, 6" jute cord frayed into a ball of fiber for use as TOW, 1 more cardboard OP card, 1 7/8 oz #6 shot, 1 OS card

Deer/hogs: 70 gr FFFg, 2 leather OP wad/cards, patched .527 RB

Light: 55grs FFFG, 3 cards, 3/4 oz #6 shot, 1 card
>
>Heavy: 70 grs FFFg, 2 cards, 6" jute twine nest, 1.5oz shot, 1 card
>
>PRB: 80grs FFFg, 4 cards, patched .527" ball"


I forgot my loads were over 1.5oz, but made a antler measure I use for the shot, so sorry about my mistake in previous post. And I did warn you that I wasn't using a standard 28ga load. :)

[rodwha]

Some HEAVY loads there!

Where did you find such uncommon ball sizes?

Thanks for the input!

[Lonegun1894]

My .515", .526", and .530" RB molds are Ideal/Lyman, and old. My .527" is a Lee that used to be a standard offering 5-10 years ago, but that I haven't seen offered recently.

[rodwha]

I've punched some very thin (cereal box) cardboard cards. Anyone using such? Any real difference between that and what you get with store bought for use as OP and/or OS cards?

[rodwha]

I've also wondered about my 1/8" felt wads I punch from Durofelt. Any reason those won't work as cushions?

[waksupi]

I'd certainly love to hear about your experiences with such. I know you to be a knowledgeable one in things BP.


Just as it says, you will need to find what your gun likes. My load for turkeys is 65gr. 3fff, two card wads, 80 gr. equivalent of shot, and another card wad.

Felt wads will blow a hole in the center of your pattern.

[rodwha]

For sure. Just looking for possibilities. Having so many people stating only a square load is acceptable makes one, mostly me, curious what others who've found otherwise are using that indeed works for them.

[waksupi]

For sure. Just looking for possibilities. Having so many people stating only a square load is acceptable makes one, mostly me, curious what others who've found otherwise are using that indeed works for them.

That is just the starting point to working up a load.