9mm leading

[lead chucker]

Hi. Ive been tying to make my p94 9mm shoot lead. I'm using ww air cooled 4 grains bullseye slugged my barrel at .355 sizing bullets to .357 using 2500+ lube. belling with lyman m die. I used the lee factory crimp die. I set it so it just removes the flair. I'm thinking that could be the problem. I don't get the min over all length. I'm using the lee 124 gr TC if I have it set to min over all length it would expose the lube groove. Am I missing something. this gun leads up pretty bad after a dozen rounds. I have done real well with all my other caibers but this one is not liking what I'm doing. Help Please.

[WHITETAIL]

:coffee:Try using Johnson past wax.
Take a jar and put the heads in and a scoop
of jpw. Then heat the jar till the wax melts.
Take the boolits out and stand them on
wax paper over night.
then make your loads.

[454PB]

Try seating without the Lee FC, it may be sizing your boolits down. One way to find out if that is the problem is to pull a seated boolit and measure.

[OS OK]

Try seating without the Lee FC, it may be sizing your boolits down. One way to find out if that is the problem is to pull a seated boolit and measure.

"Ding-Ding!" . . . that'd be my first move too...

[JBinMN]

Might help some folks help you if you mention if the leading is near the chamber, near the muzzle or streaking down the barrel from one to the other.
:)

G'luck!
:)

[mdi]

Try seating without the Lee FC, it may be sizing your boolits down. One way to find out if that is the problem is to pull a seated boolit and measure.
My thinking also. I'd pull a bullet from a completed reload and measure the bullet. (But I wouldn't use an FCD anyway because of the troubles I've had in the past with them).

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hi. Ive been tying to make my p94 9mm shoot lead. I'm using ww air cooled 4 grains bullseye slugged my barrel at .355 sizing bullets to .357 using 2500+ lube. belling with lyman m die. I used the lee factory crimp die. I set it so it just removes the flair. I'm thinking that could be the problem. I don't get the min over all length. I'm using the lee 124 gr TC if I have it set to min over all length it would expose the lube groove. Am I missing something. this gun leads up pretty bad after a dozen rounds. I have done real well with all my other caibers but this one is not liking what I'm doing. Help Please.
According to Lyman CBHB4, 4gr of BE is near 30Kpsi.
air-cooled COWW can handle up to 25Kpsi (according to LASC)
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
If your WW alloy has some Stick-On WW mixed, then Max pressure would be less.

[PaulG67]

Throw away the crimp die. Remove the flare by using your seating die.

[Moonie]

I'm with the other guys, don't use the FCD, and seat and crimp in separate operations, I have a regular crimp die for all my auto pistol cartridges.

[lead chucker]

Thanks guys. I will load a few tonight with out the factory crimp die and see if that helps. This is the first time I have used the m-die and I really like it. I might try a light load of unique see if that makes a difference. A slower powder might help, might not I will find out. Thanks again.

[fredj338]

I agree, LFCD, a solution looking for a problem. I shoot 0.357" bullets in al my 9mm, no leading. I load on an older set of rcbs dies, taper crimp in separate step.

[Larry Gibson]

I've been using 4 gr of Bullseye under 115 - 124 gr cast bullets for years in multiple guns with complete success......but then the last 20+ years since COWW composition changed I've added 2% tin. That makes a much better alloy, and better bullets. I also size mostly at .357 but I load on a Dillon SDB with the propriety dies.

[Rcmaveric]

I use the Lee Die set. Same steps as if I were loading jacketed bullets. Go with JBinMN said and look for were your leading is at. Location of leading will tell you what's wrong with the boollits. When I first started in 9mm, I leaded near the muzzle in High Point C9 and a Taurs PT 809. I was using a soft pan lube of bee wax and pet with a little candle wax to make it harder. Started using Ben's LL over that soft lube solved my leading near the muzzle. I use the Lee 125 Grn bullet over 4 Grn of Tite Group ( i havnet tuned this load but i hit steel at 25 yards with it, so i am happy for now. one project at a time).

[Grmps]

+1 on slowing it down and adding 2% tin.
You should start with a low load and work your way up to where that particular firearm works the best for you Cleaning the barrel thoroughly between each load.

[Harry Tobin]

Went through this some years ago, major cause of leading is under sized bullets. Was using LEE TL356-124 2R mold and they where under sized, when I checked them they read good but as I spin the bullet they where way under and out of round. Went to a Lee 356-125-2R mold that I could open up a little and when sized I could see a clean cut around the entire bullet. The first mold would only show spots of cutting. Haven’t had a problem since and sized at 356, check for out of round and a clean cut around the bullet

[retread]

Hi. Ive been tying to make my p94 9mm shoot lead. I'm using ww air cooled 4 grains bullseye slugged my barrel at .355 sizing bullets to .357 using 2500+ lube. belling with lyman m die. I used the lee factory crimp die. I set it so it just removes the flair. I'm thinking that could be the problem. I don't get the min over all length. I'm using the lee 124 gr TC if I have it set to min over all length it would expose the lube groove. Am I missing something. this gun leads up pretty bad after a dozen rounds. I have done real well with all my other caibers but this one is not liking what I'm doing. Help Please.

I had the same problem when I started loading 9MM's. I now size to .358 or .357 depending on the slug from the pistol bore slug. I size about 1.5 over. I expand the case with my version of an M die and bell the mouth. Stay away from the Lee FCD. Whether lubed or PC'd you should have no problem.

[lead chucker]

the leading was all the way down the barrel

[Rcmaveric]

I agree with others in sounding like an undersized boolit. I would slug the barrel with an old bell sinker or 000 buck ball and compare that to the as cast boolit diameter first before I questioned anything else. Would only take about 30 minutes and would either confirm or eliminate the normal culprit.

[robertbank]

Throw away the crimp die. Remove the flare by using your seating die.

This!

Take Care

Bob

[lead chucker]

Thank you for the posts. I loaded up 20 rounds right after work and skipped the lee factory crimp die and went out and shot ten in my P94 and ten in my FM High power no leading so that was good. I used four grains unique. It was a real mild load and all rounds in both guns cycled and fed without a hiccup. I tested a couple bullets and they were a seco 6 on my tester so I think my WW are a little week. its been almost two weeks since I cast them. I'm not looking for a full power load just a accurate and fun steel plinking load. I'm also on the hunt for a Keltec sub 2000 to shoot lead in. Thanks again guys.

[Rcmaveric]

Glad you figured it out. I was reading some where crimping can alter the boolit diameter.

[lead chucker]

I have more experimenting to do. Now I need a good powder that meters well. Any suggestions.

[JBinMN]

Glad to hear it was an easy fix by just changing the crimp & not undersizing the boolit by using that die.
:)

G'Luck! with your powder search.
:)

[robertbank]

Try 4.1 gr of 231 under that 125 gr TC bullet. Meters really well and very accurate in all my 9MM guns.

Take Care
Bob

[Rcmaveric]

I use the Lee Powder dispenser. It throws Tight Group consistently enough for me. I check every 5th charge for tolerance. I haven't had to adjust it since I set it 4 months ago.

[lead chucker]

Thanks Bob I have about a 1/4 pound of that its been sitting on the shelf 15 years it was given to me and have never tried it. I hope its still good.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thank you for the posts. I loaded up 20 rounds right after work and skipped the lee factory crimp die and went out and shot ten in my P94 and ten in my FM High power no leading so that was good. I used four grains unique. It was a real mild load and all rounds in both guns cycled and fed without a hiccup. I tested a couple bullets and they were a seco 6 on my tester so I think my WW are a little week. its been almost two weeks since I cast them. I'm not looking for a full power load just a accurate and fun steel plinking load. I'm also on the hunt for a Keltec sub 2000 to shoot lead in. Thanks again guys.


I have more experimenting to do. Now I need a good powder that meters well. Any suggestions.

I use Lee's pro-auto disk measure on a Lee Classic turret with auto-index. I've found the movement and vibrations of the press allow for unique to be reliably measured (if charge is over 3 gr), as long as you use consistent handle strokes.
If you are using some other system, specifically a"Fixed" powder measure, then I understand the problems with Unique. I'd then suggest Win 231 as robertbank mentioned.

[dondiego]

Bullseye meters well. You stated that you were using it. Try 3 grains and see what happens.

[Harry Tobin]

231 and HP-38 both the same have always metered very good but got a 8lb jug of CFE Pistol and this stuff meters the best I’ve ever seen. How ever the loading data was on the lame side for 45 LSWC on the site, but once you chronograph the load it’s very consistent. For 200g 45 LSWC running 6.5 at 907 fps and 365 lbs of energy and is a excellent and accurate round for the 1911 . Not sure for the 9mm load but sure you could find a sweet spot with it

[dragon813gt]

Air cooled may eventually cause a problem. For 9mm I water drop the bullets. I do this for all high pressure pistol rounds. It's just one less thing to worry about.

As far as powder, W231/HP38. It's all I used for a long time. Meters like water and accuracy is great. You really have a lot of powder options so I'd use what you have on hand.

[Harry Tobin]

I agree with water drop bullets, with water drop within a day you can see a Brinnell of 16 to 18 from WW. BUT I think it gets the lead there faster but not harder, if you leave cast bullets for say 6 months or more they will get to the same hardness from my testing

[lead chucker]

I will give water dropping a try. I live in a remote part of Alaska and the gun store here doesn't have a lot of powder to choose from. I'm interested in CFE pistol. I have shot CFE 223 in my 223 rifles and had real good luck with my bullets swaged from 22lr cases. It also meters like water.

[lead chucker]

Would 3 grains bullseye cycle the action on a 9mm auto?

[tazman]

CFE Pistol works very well in 9mm as well as a lot of other cartridges. It seems to give some extra velocity without adding extra pressure.
Whether 3 grains of Bullseye would work the action on a 9mm will depend on how stiff the recoil spring is in that particular weapon. I have used 3.2 grains of Bullseye in my Beretta 92fs under a 120 grain boolit and had it function properly. Accuracy was better with a stiffer load though.

[GooseGestapo]

I've never had any luck with the Lee 124 TL mold. Both RN or SWC. Nor the .40 175gr TLSWC.

The base driving band is too small, and the micro band area is undersized. I've even beagled the molds and powder coated them. Leading is eliminated, but accuracy issues persist.

On the other hand, the 120gr TC sized to .357" shoot better than all but the best jacketed bullets.

Best cast bullet powder I've found for the 9mm is LongShot.

[Harry Tobin]

As far as Bullseye and 9mm I found this old thread from castboolits it may help

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?126813-9mm-with-bullseye

[dverna]

Try 4.1 gr of 231 under that 125 gr TC bullet. Meters really well and very accurate in all my 9MM guns.

Take Care
Bob

I use the same load under the Magma 122 gr TC bullet. BTW Bullseye will work if you lower the charge...check published data and use starting loads.

[popper]

I've used the CFE pistol in 40SW for jacketed loads, seems a waste for cast. I did use it in 300BO for light loads, jacketed. Seems like it leaves more fouling in the barrel but is easy to clean. I also cast some from the bar of superhard I bought, just to add Sb when needed. I leave the Unique I have for rife cast - it meters so poorly for pistol. IMHO you do need to WD for grease lubed 9mm. Add a little shot for As to speed up the hardening.

[DerekP Houston]

I will give water dropping a try. I live in a remote part of Alaska and the gun store here doesn't have a lot of powder to choose from. I'm interested in CFE pistol. I have shot CFE 223 in my 223 rifles and had real good luck with my bullets swaged from 22lr cases. It also meters like water.

cfe pistol metered well for me with the lee auto disk setup.

[lead chucker]

Well I guess I un figured it out. I'm still getting leading. I slugged my barrel again and its right at .355 I have tried light loads that would barely cycle the action and medium loads still leads. Maybe the 2500+ isn't the right lube. I'm sizing to .357 . The boolit is the lee TC 120 gr not the TL version. Strange they come out at 126 gr lubed up. I have tried water dropped and air cooled WW. I pulled some bullets and they are still .357 Both my P94 and my Argentine FM high power lead. The ruger is the worst and it has a tighter barrel. Thought I had some W231 but it was W230P old metal can. I'm seating to 1.090 I guess I could go right to the top of the lube groove. I have adjusted the seating die to that it just passes the plunk test. I'm using the lee four die set but not using the factory crimp die. I want to make this work but cant figure out what I'm doing rong. I'm about out of bullseye I have lots of red dot and unique but neither meter very well especially with the light loads. Any ideas guys.

[robertbank]

lead chucker if your bullets are .357 and you are using virtually any commercial or home made lube and your velocities are around 1,100 fps. then there is no reason for your guns to be leading unless you are using pure lead. That would seem to be the only variable. It isn't the barrels because you are getting leading in all your pistols not just one.

Casting God is not the type to pick on just one of us. Usually it is all of us or nobody. Your situation defies logic. I am out of answers.

Take Care

Bob

[lead chucker]

maybe the throats are too long. I didn't let the bullets I water dropped age for a couple weeks but the bnh is in the low 20's. I have to be doing something wrong. I seat the bullets out as long as I can with out uncovering the lube groove.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Might try a softer alloy. Real hard stuff can do strange things at times. I use range scrap mixed 50/50 with lead in all my handgun bullets. Even 9mm. No leading even when I'm getting them cranking up there like .357 out of a carbine. I use a lot of Lotak on handgun bullets. Carnuba Red works great too.

[lead chucker]

Ran another clip through each pistol after work with the water dropped WW boolits , 4.3 gr unique. seated boolits just to hide the lube groove. and I was surprised to see very little leading the ruger was the cleanest barrel which surprised me. The small amount of lead was very easy to clean out. There is a small length in the lee seater die that the top punch slides up and down so I set the seater down lower to hope that there isn't any swage down in the area that the top punch slides up and down. Wrong or right that's what I tried. I really appreciate every one trying to help me with this.

[JeffG]

4.3-4.4 of unique with 50/50 lube, same bullet seated to 1.07 is my go to load for 9x19. Alloy is air cooled WW with 2% tin. Typically have a small amount of antimony wash, with easily brushes out. You might be getting some wash too instead of leading.

[Black Prince]

Lead Chucker

I cast and reloaded my first bullet and cartridge in 1958 when I was 16 years old and have been doing it regularly since then except for the four years I was in the Navy. Using the old math, that means I have been casting and reloading for the past 59 years. I have been doing that with cartridges like 30-06 Springfield, 308 Win. , 30-30 Win., .222 Remingtom, .243 Win., .223 Remington, 300 Win Mag,, 338 Win. Mag., 375 H&H, 45-70, 40-65 Win, 38-55 Win. , 44 special and mag, 38 special and 357 mag, 380 auto, 45 ACP and Long Colt, and two months ago started loading 9 mm for the first time. The 9 mm was never a cartridge I had any interest in until I got an FEG Hi Power clone. Since then, I have experienced the same issues you have. I load and have loaded on a Dillon 550-B using Dillon dies since Dillon came out with it. I also still have my old Lyman All American press that I have used since hector was a pup and that I still use for certain long length rifle cartridges like the .375 H&H mag and others.

The barrel on that FEG surplus pistol (it is in good condition and shoots FMJ bullets very accurately after I put good sights on it ) mikes .3566 with a micrometer and .356 with a dial caliper. I cast with a Lee 124 grain RN TL (124 grain round nose tumble lube) six cavity mould and they fall out of it between .357 and .3575 depending on alloy. I cast some pure wheel weights. I cast some wheel weights and 25% pure lead. I cast some wheel weights and 25% linotype. I cast some pure linotype and 25% #4 Babbit. I cast some wheel weights plus 5% pure tin. I sized them .356 using the Lee sizing system because I didn't have a .356 Lyman sizing die. , and .357 using a Lyman die and 4500 sizer-luber, but they were not big enough to size .358. I shot 3.5 grains of Bullseye and they come out of the barrel across my Chrony at 950 to 1000 FPS. They were lubed with Lee Tumble lube. EVERYTHING I TRIED leaded the barrel for the entire length. I tried power coating and then DOUBLE powder coating and then lubing the double powder coated bullets with Lee liquid lube and they STILL LEADED. In 59 years of reloading a lot of different cartridges, I HAVE NEVER had that problem and it is apperently inherrent in the 9 mm cartridge.

I am not one to quit such a project, so I bought a brand new Belgin made Browning Hi Power Mark III and miked the barrel at .3565. (I drove a soft cast bullet down it and miked it.) I used a micrometer and not a dial caliper. Then I bought a new six cavity Lee mold that cast the 120 grain TC LG bullet ( 120 grain Tunicated cone, lube groove) and I bought a new Lyman 356 sizing die. Then I cast bullets of varing hardness as I did before into water as I have always cast them. I loaded them with 3.7 grains of bullseye and lubed with 50-50 bees wax and alox lube in the Lyman 4500 sizer. I loaded them to the recommended OAL of 1.110. They leaded the barrel in the new Browning all the way down and that load comes across my Chrony at 1040 FPS. They leaded the barrel in the FEG all the way down it and it didnt matter how hard or soft the bullet was.

So I took the .356 die out of the Lyman luber-sizer and put in a .357 die and lubed and sized some of those in different bullet hardness loaded with 3.7 grains of Bullseye. .357 is as big as I can size them because they don't cast any larger than that. It is raining today, so I can't get to the range, but I'll shoot them tomorrow in both the FEG and the FN BHP and let you know the results.

So don't think that what you are doing or how you are are doing it is somehow contributing to the problem you are having because it is obviously a COMMON PROBLEM with the 9 mm cartridge. I have had more issues with it than all the other cartridges I have loaded for and that I still load for. And when I say load, I mean a LOT of casting and loading because I shoot and have always shot between 20 and 25000 rounds of handgun ammo every year alone. I still deer hunt and still compete in area shooting contest and shoot on a team at the shooting range I belong to. I had hoped to use the 9mm in some of those contest, but as of yet, I can't make it shoot more than 20 rounds before leading starts screwing with the accuracy. I may have to just use FMJ bullets with the dam things. I am TOTALLY DISCUSTED with it so far, so don't think it is just picking on you. Now I know why I NEVER owned a 9mm and I am sorry I EVER bought two of the dam things.

[OS OK]

I try to keep a jug full of these plinkers around all the time...my Hi Power loves them and groups well but the 92-F thinks they are birdshot...it likes to pattern them.


207579

GO figure? Neither weapon leads up though...this seems to be a constant problem all around the forum, wonder why?
Could it be also that there is a difference in how the short little lead into the lands and grooves is cut or worn? I dunnoh...but don't give up as this is just a little problem...problems are just a thing awaiting a solution.

Note: the top label says '126', that's just their max. weight since getting PC'd. They are cast from COWW's and 1% Sn added but, air cooled from the PC oven...no water quenching done...

PS: just read the post below...that's good advice about expansion. I use an expander sized .357" and run it into the case the same depth + a smidge more (compensating for the bottom radius of the expander) same depth in case as the cast will seat...then use separate seater & taper crimp dies.
My powder throw sits atop a Lee powder through expander die but all it does is to put a slight bevel at the top of the case mouth since it is mounted on the turret right after the expander die, don't want to skin these cast after all the trouble of making them.
The taper crimp is a seater die also but the seater is only adjusted so that it doesn't allow anything longer than the seater die sets them at.

[robertbank]

Black Prince pull one of your loaded bullets and check what diameter it is. My bet is your cases are sizing down your lead bullets. You may find the issue is with your sizing/decapping die not expanding the case enough. A friend of mine in Oregon had the same problem with one of his guns. His cases were sizing the bullets down to .354 from .357. He was getting leading like you were.

I am amazed at how many folks here seem to think the 9MM is difficult to shoot lead bullets without getting leading. I size all my 9mm bullets .357. I found .356 sized bullets would tumble in some of my guns so I went with .357 and never have I observed any leading in any of my 9MM guns which include:
S&W M&P 4.25" 1 - 18 twist
S&W M&P Pro 5" 1 - 18 & 1 - 10 twist
Tanfoglio 5" 1 - 10 twist Polygonial
FN Hi-Power
Inglis Hi-Power
Beretta 92A1 (2)
Beretta M9A1 Compact
Girsan Centurian
Walther M2 Match Polygonial
CZ 85 Combat (3)
CZ SP-01 Shadow (2)
Beretta CX 4 Storm
STI Trojan 9MM
Norinco 1911 9MM

When I cast I water quench my bullets out of the mold. I do it because it is easier than dropping them onto a cloth the way I have my casting set up laid out. It results in harder bullets BUT to be honest I never had any leading using WW alloy when I air cooled them either. I shoot about 10K 9MM rounds per year and almost all are Lyman 356402 bullets sized .357, OAL 1.10, over 3.4gr 700X 0r 3.1gr of 231 using mixed brass. Lube is Magna Red Hard Lube, Felix Lube or Xlox 2500 plus from LsStuff.com. I use a Lee Sizing Die, and a Dillon Taper Crimping Die in a Dillon 550B. I always put a healthy bell on my cases to prevent shaving of the bullet when seating.

I hope this helps. You should not be having the issues you are.

Take Care

Bob

[Black Prince]

Thanks Bob. I'll do that right now. But I have both a .380 and a 9 mm set up of Dillion carbide pistol dies and powder funnels. Even though the powder funnels are both the same, I tried both of them in case one was larger than the other, but they both are the same. I always adjust the powder funnel die to put a good flare on the case because I don't want any lead shaving when I get to the seating die and I don't get any. I run an RCBS powder check die immediately after the powder filling staion on the 550-B. That means I can then only use the seating die on the 550-B since it only has four stations. If I need it, I set up the taper crimp die in the All American press and run all cartridges through it. I do use a taper crimp on my 45 ACP cartridges because I have three different 1911 guns chambered for that cartridge and I want the cartridges to function in all of them interchangeably and they do. But I don't use the taper crimp die with 9 mm loads because my cartridges function through both the FEG and the FN BHP just as they come from the seating die. You can't adjust the Dillon seating die down enough to put any kind of crimp on a 9 mm case. In fact, it is impossible to put a crimp on a 9 mm cartridge using a Dillon seating die. So I don't know how a bullet as hard as some I have cast would be sized down, but as you say, that may be happening. If it is, I have no idea of how to stop it.

But this has been a project to work on and since I retired, shooting and hunting are all I do, so it has been interesting. My wife says that's all I did before I retired too. I thought I knew something about casting and loading until I got a 9 mm. It has been a PIA so far.

I may use the powder funnel in the .357 magnum set of Dillion stuff?? I'll go measure it to see if it is larger and it should be. I like reloading about as much as I like shooting so it's all just something to do before I die anyway, so Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???

[robertbank]

If your cases are sizing down your bullets the issue will lie with your case sizing/decapping die. It likely is sizing down your brass to a to small diameter. I share the same life dilemma you do. Hopefully our maker decides to give us enough time to resolve some or most of the issues we care about.

Take Care

Bob

[Black Prince]

If your cases are sizing down your bullets the issue will lie with your case sizing/decapping die. It likely is sizing down your brass to a to small diameter. I share the same life dilemma you do. Hopefully our maker decides to give us enough time to resolve some or most of the issues we care about.

Take Care

Bob

Well since the doctors told me in March that I could drop dead any minute, I don't get get too tangled up in many of life's issues any more. I trying to make it through deer season because my trail cameras have some really good bucks on them.

My dies are Dillon carbide. The powder funnel / expander on both the .380 ACP and the 9 mm measures .354. Those are both 543-F powder funnels. So I figure I'll just use the powder funnel out of my Dillion .38 Special / .357 magnum set. It is Dillion powder funnel # 543-D and to my surprise, measures .354!! So I pulled out an old set of Lyman standard dies for the 38 Special/ .357 magnum and measured the expander on it and it measures .355!!! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!!! It is CLEARLY MARKED .357, but it ain't .357.

So if the expander is not opening the case to accept .357 sized bullets, I can't use other expanders because they are no bigger than what is in my press now. So here is the solution: Tomorrow I go to the range and try the loads I have just completed. They are cast hard, sized to .357 and lubed with 50-50 bees wax and alox lube, which is the old tried and true NRA formula. They are loaded to a custom length for that bullet and that chamber determined by the old method of marking the cleaning rod for seating depth. They work through the magazine and chamber of both pistols with no problems. If they shoot with no leading, then the problem is solved. If they lead, I'll order 250 9 mm Berry copper plated bullets and try them. If they shoot good, I'll order 1000 of them to shoot until I can get a new Cylinder and slide hammer and sear in that new Browning Mark III which has the absolute most RIDICULOUS trigger pull I have EVER SEEN ON ANYTHING and that includes quad 50 Brownings that I used to teach how to operate in the Navy. The new hammer, sear, and a new 26 pound mainspring will arrive here tomorrow according to my UPS tracking number. I also have a new set of LDA fiber optic adjustable replacement sights coming from Brownell's. I'll use the Berry bullets to get all of that done and a load worked up. Then I'll order 5000 of them and not be bothered with the quirks of the 9mm and various die makers who can't seem to make a product that measures what they say it does. If the Berry bullets don't work, I'll order some FMJ bullets. HAR!!!!

If I'm still on the green side of the grass, I'm going deer hunting right after Thanksgiving for a week or 10 days or maybe two weeks or until I get tired of it. It ends January 30, but I'll have to come out of the woods for Christmas or they all get their panties inna wad. Then I'll take a little break and to use my little Browning 22 auto rifle to kill a bunch of squirrels and cook'em up with some onions and make a big frying pan of squirrel gravy. I'll be cooking some cajun rice at the same time and maybe some brocclii or collards while the corn bread is baking in the oven. Then I'm gonna eat what my doctors say I should not eat, but I've been on a strict vegan (UGG) diet since March and I'm gonna eat some of those free range, no artificial additive squirrels. But don't tell my wife. She is already suspicious of my activities at deer camp. :roll:

This 9mm business has just been solved one dam way or another because life is too short to have to mess with it. Thanks for your comments and advice. We old farts have to stick together you know because these young whipper snappers are gaining on us.

[robertbank]

Enjoyed the discussion. Good luck on your deer hunt. Let us know how you make out.

Take Care

Bob

[P Flados]

FYI,

As I have posted a number of times, I too am still fighting a 9mm that wants to lead.

My biggest challenge may be that my lead is relatively soft range scrap, and my boolits only drop 0.357" for my Lee 120 TC mold and 0.3575" for my Lee 125 RNFP.

My latest "find" is that I have probably been sizing down the cases too much. The 9 mm is a tapered case and I found that I could raise it up at least 1/16" and still have cases below the SAAMI specs.

For those, that seem to have little problems with their 9mm, please do not assume that those of us who do are necessarily "doing something wrong". Lots of time people have problems with other calibers, but usually after trying a few of the standard "fixes" they find something that works. For many, the 9mm has confounded the caster and proven to be hard if not impossible to beat.

I am still trying, but boy is this caliber trying (my patience that is).

[Black Prince]

Bob

Roger that.

[robertbank]

P Flados it is not that you are doing something wrong. It is more likely you are doing something you do not intend to do like sizing the cases down to much. Easy test. Pull a bullet after you have crimped the case and measure the diameter of the bullet. If it is .356 or less you are likely going to have leading due to gas cutting no matter what ever else you are doing.

Good luck.

Take Care

Bob

[P Flados]

I have pulled lots of boolits.

The best I have been able to do is around 0.3565" with my Lee 125 RNFPs (these drop close to 0.3575", and I size back to 0.3575" after PC). With PC, these are marginal (OK at absolute minimum powder for Ok cycling if I hold the gun real firm). I do not really like these as they occasionally "shave" lead which can build up at the front of the chamber. It was worse until I lapped in more of a throat in my aftermarket barrel.

My Lee 120 TCs drop a little smaller (real close to 0.357" before PC, I size to 0.3575" after PC, but I am really not changing the OD much at all). I am probably closer to 0.356" max when I pull these boolits. These are not even close to "lead free" or even "low leading" at this point.

This is with my second custom (made at home) expander, and cases sorted by headstamp to get brass that sizes boolits down less.

I am thinking I will probably eventually have to resort to a new mold to get something that drops bigger and a new sizer and expander to match. I still want to end up close to 120 - 125 gr as cast. It is a real shame this gun is so picky since both the 120 and the 125 boolits shoot great in all my other handguns. This full power loads in 38 (1 gun), 357 mag (2 guns), 357 max (4 guns).

[ioon44]

One of the things I had to change is the sizer die ( as pointed out in post #50) , my Dillon carbide sizer was giving me a .350" ID on a full length sizing.
When loading .355" jacked bullets this would make the rounds look like Coke bottles and totally swag cast bullets, this was just one of the things I had to change to make my 9 mm loads to run lead free.

Also the throat of the barrel can have a lot to do with the was a cast bullet performs.

[gene10pntr]

I hate to hi-jack this post,but you guys are saying not to use the LFC die. What or how are you crimping then using separate methods? Seating then crimping,are you using a different brand crimp die? I seat with a Redding competition 9mm die and the use the LFC die just enough to take the flare out or pass the plunk test. Am I misreading what you're talking about? I'm fairly new to pistol loading as it is.
Also of all the powders I've tried,CFE pistol has worked the best for me so far.

Thanks for replies and help!

[ioon44]

I am using Hornady dies for 9 mm and use the Hornady taper crimp to smooth out the flare with out swagging my cast bullets.
I use Hi-Tek coated bullets with CFE pistol and have zero leading and my PPQ's are really clean after shooting.

[P Flados]

ioon44,

Your post #50 & #57 got me to thinking.

I knew my Lee carbide was sizing the cases much more than I need for cast boolits. This was in turn causing more than desired "springback" on some cases during the expander stage.

I dug around my old dies looking for somthing just a tad bigger.

I found an old steel Lyman 38 Auto sizer (I loaded 38 super for a friend long ago).

It is bigger but it does great for getting cases small enough to be an easy slip fit into the chamber even with pickup cases that were bulged all the way to the web near the base.

However with my first small batch, I found that some of my 120s sized to 0.3575" could be easily rotated in the case after seating.

I coated up a new batch and found the slightly rough ASBB HF Red coating miked out closer to say 0.3585" with no sizing. The slight increase was just enough such that the next (bigger) batch was found to have all bullets nicely snug in the case after seating. Pulled boolits are now pretty close to 0.3575". The loaded rounds a slip into the chamber just fine.

I am now going at this with a different midset. I know that my soft boolits are being sized by the brass. I see now that I should just accept that it will happen, but work up the right case sizer / expander so that they are sized down to the size I want. Skipping the extra step of using the Lee push through boolit sizer after PC is something of a plus with this new approach.

I have not fired any of these new loads yet, but I feel some satisfaction in just getting soft boolits into and out of cases without being sized down more than I want.

[guicksylver]

This was mentioned earlier in this post and other sites but passed over....most likely the problem (and a common one with current 9mm pistils) http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337627-9mm-throat-reaming

[P Flados]

This was mentioned earlier in this post and other sites but passed over....most likely the problem (and a common one with current 9mm pistils) http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337627-9mm-throat-reaming


The thread you linked to is discussing throats & "deep seating" a Lee 105 SWC to work in a barrel with no throat.

The fact that many 9 mm barrels need throat work to more readily work with typical cast boolits was not overlooked, see post 56 & the mention in post 57.

I used "deep seating" to work around the lack of a throat in my early loads for the aftermarket barrel I am using. After lapping a more reasonable throat into the barrel, I no longer need to use this "work-around" approach.

[Lagamor]

I recently had bad problems with lead ring build up in my 9 mm chamber. This would prevent me from loading anything longer than the shortest of OAL's and I couldn't shoot more than twenty before I had to clean the barrel and chamber. I powder coat range scrap, so the lead is soft. Once the boolit was fired the lands would scrap off a tiny bit of PC and lead. This would then build up over time and be a royal PIMA. Tried everything I could think of and then came here for help.

I got a lot of suggestions and I listened to most of them immediately. I went through the details of my casting processes and improved them, changed the powder coating to a different brand, changed my boolit sizing dies and backed off my crimping dies on the reloading press. I now make a better and much more consistent boolit than ever before. But none of that solved my problems. After all that I had my chamber throated and reamed by a fine gentleman on this site, it helped, but didn't solve my problem.

In frustration, I went back to the thread I started and looked again at what people told me might help. The one suggestion I originally ignored was to use a slower burning powder, and in desperation I bought a pound of Longshot and all my problems immediately went away.

I still had a batch of old boolits I made with the old powder coating and my old sloppy ways and they shot fine, all 300 of them.

Turns out all I had to do was listen to one suggestion by an unknown senior member and my problems would have gone away. But this is how I learn, banging my head into a brick wall, over and over and over again.

Who ever you were, thank you.

[Black Prince]

Today I got around to doing what Robert Blank suggested that I do to stop 9 mm leading issues. I've been tied up with out of state with Thanksgiving and opening of deer season. But I got back home Saturady night and Sunday Afternoon, I cast up 150 bullets in a new Lee LH 358-150 RN mold that was delivered while I was away. This morning I sized and lubed them at .357 in a Lyman 4500 sizer. They weigh 147.8 grains after sizing and lubing using my hard alloy. I loaded them at an OAL of 1.350 inches because anything longer contacted the lands in the barrel. The powder charge was 3.1 grains of Unique instead of the Bullseye I had been using. I was thinking about the pressure curve being less steep using the slower Unique powder and maybe a slower powder would help with the leading as Lagamor suggests above. Took the BHP to the range this afternoon and shot all 150 rounds WITH NO LEADING AT ALL.

From what I can see now, It was the under sized bullets that the two 6 cavity Lee molds I was using were droping that was causing the problems. The biggest bullets they would cast were .356. Today I used a mold designed for the .357 magnum and it drops bullets at .358 that I sized to .357. So MANY THANKS to Bob Blank for his advice. It was SPOT ON and I really do appreciate it. He has helped me to slove what was begining to be an aggrivatating problem. But all is well now and I am going to be able to shoot the two Browning Hi Power's I have using cast bullets. Life is good!!!!

The offending Lee molds are numbers 356-120 TC 6 cavity and TL356-124-2R 6 cavity. They cast bullets that drop out at 356. BOTH moulds produced bullets that leaded badly in my FEG and Hi Power MK III. The lee mold that worked is a LH 358-150 designed for the 357 magmum. It does not produce bullets that are too small and cause leading. So once again, FIT has proven to be THE MAIN ISSUE with cast bullets. I REALLY LIKE those 6 cavity molds because they make a lot of bullets quickly.

[robertbank]

Glad to be able to help. PM sent.
Good shooting.

Take Care

Bob

[Black Prince]

What mold or molds do you use for your 9mm bullets? I am finding that there are not a lot of them available with a nose shape that my pistols will shoot. I don't mind spending money for molds because I cast and shoot a lot, so I'll quickly pay for any mold over buying already cast bullets.

[P Flados]

Congrats to Black Prince on his victory.

FYI, I have used a bunch of Lee molds. For the 9mm it is just 3 Lee molds.

My only 6 cav that I use is the 120 TC. I love the 6 cav production rate and am currently using it a lot of my 38 & 357 loads. It throws ~0.3560". PC adds ~0.002".

For me, I currently believe that my problem with this boolit has been soft range pickup lead and my inability to get reliable 9mm case IDs of ~0.357" (efforts are in progress to address this issue).

I solved my problem with the 125 RNFPs (two cav). They drop at 0.3565" which helps, but the larger diameter was causing shaving during seating / crimping (actually just flare removal) when done in one step. These shavings were being deposited in the crimp and lube grooves during this step and then later a portion of the shavings were getting left in the front of the chamber during shooting. Going to two steps, seating and then a second pass for crimping (flare removal), has "fixed" my issues with this boolit. This boolit should be a good choice based on diameter and weight, but may require deep seating if your gun is a victim of the "throatless wonder syndrome".

If you have a "throatless wonder", and want to use a Lee "358-" mold under 150 gr, I would only recommend the SWCs unless you are willing to take your chances with short OALs.

FYI, I have an older Lee 105 RN that actually drops at 110 gr and 0.3585". I expect to have this one working in the 9mm when I get my case sizing/expanding issues resolved.

For "shape" the Lee TL356-124-2R has a lot going for it. The weight is good and the nose profile is close to the "original parabellum". The step down in front of the TL bands should allow it to work in "throatless wonders". Note that this mold (or any of the Lee "356-" molds) can be leemented and/or lapped to drop 0.358" if needed and if you are up to it.

Other makers probably have good choices, but I prefer discussing the only brand I buy.

[Black Prince]

Thanks for letting me know what has worked for you. Unfortunately, any bullet that casts under a 357 diameter causes leading in both of my pistols. I prefer a bullet of 358 diameter which I then size to 357. I have all the Lee molds you reference, but they DO NOT WORK in my guns. I agree on the shape of the TL356-124-2R Lee bullet. It feeds flawlessly in my guns, BUT IT LEADS all the way down the barrel. If that mould threw 358 bullets, I'd be in business.

So I am looking for a mold with a nose shape similiar to that one that weighs 150 grains or less and casts 358 bullets. I've found one I believe will work, but of course, it is out of stock. No worries. I'm on the list as soon as it becomes available.

Meanwhile, I have replaced the hammer and sear in both guns with Cylinder and Slide hardened parts, and the 32 pound mainsprings in both guns with 26 pound springs from BO Spring Solutions, and have replaced the sights on both of them, removed the magazine safetys, and done trigger jobs on them. All I need now is a good bullet and that'll come. While I wait, I'll go deer hunting and glass bed the action in a rifle I'm working on. Is this a great hobby or what???

[robertbank]

What mold or molds do you use for your 9mm bullets? I am finding that there are not a lot of them available with a nose shape that my pistols will shoot. I don't mind spending money for molds because I cast and shoot a lot, so I'll quickly pay for any mold over buying already cast bullets.

My go to mold is the Lyman 356402 mold. I have shot thousands of these over the years and they run through my guns like butter. I used them in my FN Hi-Power when I had one. I size them .357 and load them to 1.10" OAL. Great bullet and very accurate in every 9MM gun I own. The lbullets run over the Chrony at 1,100 fps out of a 5" barrel. I have a friend who shoots Cowboy Action. For him I size them .358 and he uses them in his SAA 38spl gun.

I use the four cavity mold. There are other companies that make a similar shaped mold. I can't imagine any pistol having a problem with the bullets. For years I used Felix Lube but I know have a Magna Lubricator and have switched to their hard lube. Never have any leading using WW alloy water quenched from the mold. I don;t think the water quenching is really necessary but it is so convenient to just drop the bullets into a pail of water.

Hope this helps.

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

Black Prince the mold I use drops the bullets out of the mold between .3575 and .3585 depending on the alloy I use. My .358 sizer will touch the bullets, my .357 sizing die sizes the full circumference of the bullet. I use two Lyman 4 cavity molds and both drop the bullets the same size ie as described above.

You can get hold of Accurate molds if you wish and have them make you the same bullet design with a mold diameter of .358 if you want. I am not sure what alloy you are using but to be absolutely sure your bullets will fit the bore cast them out and run them through a .358 sizing die and let your barrel size the bullets down for a tight fit. Personally that is what I would do. You might try it with your Lee molds uness of course they are dropping the bullets under .357 .

Take Care

Bob

[Black Prince]

As soon as it becomes available, I am going to try this one -->> https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/solid-molds/mp-359-135-pb-8-cavity-mold

That Lyman 356402 mold is very similar to the Lee 356-120 TC 6 cavity mold I already have. But the Lee mold only casts bullets of 356 diameter and they are not big enough and they lead the barrel. I tried powder coating them and then double powder coating them. It didn't work but I did size the PC bullets to 356 before shooting them. I think tomorrow I am going to try powder caoating them and sizing them to 357 and see how that works. HAW!!! That may be a solution - - - or not!!!

The mold I am going to try when it becomes available is an 8 cavity and it casts bullets at 358 to 359 diameter. It has a nice long round nose and ought to feed fine in most pistols.

It's no biggie one way or the other. Heck, it's all just a project to work on and something to do while I am waiting to die. But I do love fooling with this stuff and have enjoyed it for the last 59 years. I cast my first bullet and reloaded my first cartridge in 1958 when I was 16 years old. Seems like it was just yesterday and I remember it well.

[robertbank]

What weight of bullet are you looking at? Stick to 124/125 gr weights if you want to maximize accuracy.

Take Care

Bob

[Black Prince]

Bob

Lee molds have the normally cast bullet weight in their description such as 356-120 TC, which means it will cast a bullet of 356 diameter, 120 grains in weight and it is a tunicated cone nose design. I have that mould in a 6 cavity. I also have Lee TL356-124-2R 6 cavity, which means it is a tumble lube design that casts bullets of 356 diameter, 124 grains in weight, and has a double radius nose. I have that mold in a 6 cavity. Both of those throw bullets that are too small in diameter for my guns. I just got a Lee LH 358-150 RN, which casts bullets of 358 diameter, 150 grains in weight, and has a round nose. (Using my hard alloy, it actually drops bullets out at 146 grains) It casts bullets of correct diameter for my guns and I did not have any leading using it, but it does not feed reliably in my guns when seated to an OAL that does not extend so far into the case as to raise pressures when fired. So I am looking for a design that will feed better and maintain normal pressures when loaded to an OAL that works in my guns.

I may try this one -->> https://www.mp-molds.com/news This guy casts like I do. We don't mess around. We make BULLETS!!!

I am going to try to powder coat, or maybe double powder coat some of the Lee 356-120 TC bullets today and then size them to 357, or maybe not size them at all before or after PC and see how they do because they feed in my guns with no issues. I may also try that with the 124 grain bullets too. Powder coating WILL NOT make up for under sized bullets however. It's not a biggie. Just something to tinker with. But thanks for all your information and valuable help. And thanks to all of you boys who have participated in this discussion. I learn something here almost every day from all of you and I greatly value that.

[P Flados]

Black Prince,

Definitely try skipping the boolit sizing after PC.

Only recently did I try this (I can be a little slow about some things).

The extra 0.002" OD made a big difference on a couple of my attempts. With "cherry picked" cases (thinner wall), my 38 Auto sizer and no boolit sizing I got a couple batches that went from bad (leading after 10 rounds) to promising (no/minimal leading after 20 rounds) with no sizing. This is why I am currently focused on improvements to my case sizing and expanding steps.

For me, I can get a really good coat with a little extra effort. One coat should be enough if you are getting good coverage and one "extra effort coat" is a lot less work than two "fast and sloppy" coats.

FYI, a little lapping really can fix a Lee molds that you otherwise would have no plans to use just because it is a little small. I have lapped a few 2 cavities with good results. I am a little reluctant to try my hand with the six cavity just because the odds are increasing that I would not be happy with the overall consistency when done.

I would be happy to do one of your two cavities for you. The downside is the cost/hassle of shipping both ways.

[Black Prince]

Thanks, but there is no way you, or anyone can hand lap six cavities and have them anywhere consistent. But many thanks for the offer.

Today I cast up a bunch of bullets using the two Lee six cavity moulds that cast bullets at .356. Then I powder coated them. After I water quinched them, they came out at .358 diameter. So then I ran them through the lyman 4500 and sized AND LUBED them to .357. I'll try them to see if they lead as soon as the weather quits sleeting, raining, and or snowing. It ain't easy living in the mountains ya know, but if ya don't like the weather you have now, just wait a minute and it'll change, usually for the worse. HAW!!! I'll also load some unsized as you suggest.

I really do not have any high expectations that powder coating will make up for the under sized bullets (for my guns they are undersized) because the 9mm is a high pressure cartridge and even though I am loading a minimum charge of Unique, it will likely just blow by the PC bullet leaving lead in the barrel as it goes. But what the heck? I'll try it anyway because working in my loading room is really nice this time of the year. I set a fire in the wood stove just outside the door and leave the door open so I can see the fire in the stove and feel the warmth. I getta cuppa coffee, turn on Rush Limbaugh on the radio and load cartridges, or mess with something like cleaning cases. My old dog comes in and lies over there in front of the stove soaking it up. He won't stay here if the stove does not have a fire in it. Life is good. I've got the 9 mm barrel leading problem solved. All I have to do now is get the right mold that will cast at least a .358 diameter bullet with a nose shape that will feed in my guns and I'm looking for it right now. It'll come.

Meanwhile, I'm installing a new 26 inch heavy target barrel on a Savage flat top 110 and glass bedding the action into the stock for my "reach out and touch someone" rifle and finishing up an AR I just completed putting together. There is always something to do in my loading room. My wife calls it "The Hideout." Hee, hee. She is right about that. It is the quietest room in the house.:mrgreen:

[P Flados]

BP,

I read somewhere here that PC strength / hardness is similar to lead. I have good pretty good confidence that the PC coating can seal.

FYI, I also use PC on 327 Fed, 357 magnum and 357 Maximum full house loads. The pressure of a 9mm is not even close to a lot of my loads.

[P Flados]

Thanks, but there is no way you, or anyone can hand lap six cavities and have them anywhere consistent. But many thanks for the offer.

Actually, lapping can be done in a very controlled fashion. To do a really good job does take patience, but it also really helps to have good tools. My Bride OK'ed me to get myself a 7x14 mini metal lathe for Christmas. Should be here next week. I expect this will greatly enhance my future lapping capabilities. Boolits can be precision drilled on center and mounted on piece of threaded rod. Lead can be easily removed from surfaces where lapping is not desired. I think I have worked out a way to make tooling to keep the lap in perfect alignment while in use. Go - NoGo plugs can be made to confirm progress on reaching desired cavity IDs.

And possibly it might be usefull for something else now and then. Lets see, what could I possibly use it for???

Custom expander making efforts

Custom boolit sizer making efforts

Any needed barrel throat improvements

Cherry / mold making efforts (I have already made a few with nothing but a drill press, No-groove makes it much more home do-able)

May even get around to custom barrel stubbing efforts for my Contenders

Hum, if things work out as I hope, I may just start a thread on my sure fire, easy as pie, $600 boolit leading cure for 9mm guns ;)

[Black Prince]

Well now you are getting mighty FANCY on me. I don't have room for such things in my little loading room. It's only 10 by 12 feet. But I have it crammed with so much STUFF, I can hardly get in there and do anything. I spent most of the day down there in complete FRUSTRATION and finally just gave up and came upstairs for a cuppa coffee. Everything I tried today failed. My dang RCBS powder Lock Out die just decided to quit working. But then, it's always been a PIA.

I like to see where people do their reloading. So to be fair, here's my 120 square foot loading room.


http://i63.tinypic.com/14wxbn6.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/33wlb0o.jpg

I store most of my STUFF in these shelves. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to move in here. I have a theory. It goes like this: You cannot build a reloading room too dang big.

http://i65.tinypic.com/4izt47.jpg

These are two Lee molds for the 9 mm. Neither of them is worth a tinkers dam because they do not cast bullets that will fit in my guns. I powder coated some of the 120 grain Trunicated Cone bullets. They came out after PC at .358. I sized and lubed them to 357, but the dern things will not chamber in either of my Hi Powers. My Powder Lock Out die won't work. The weather is bad. It's time for another cuppa coffee, sit out there by the stove, play my guitar, and count my blessings. This 9mm business ain't anything to get excited about.

http://i63.tinypic.com/6rtxco.jpg

This is looking out one of the loading room doors into an area where I have a wood stove. I leave the loading room door open for warmth during this time of the year and that stove is comforting sitting out there doing its thing.

[tomme boy]

You all can solve your problems if you use a Lee auto powder drop if you use a 38S&W powder drop expander. And not one person here has said anything about it. It expands the case farther down inside. All 9mm dies are made to use jacketed bullets. The 38S&W expander is a work around for the improper dies

[Black Prince]

I tried the expander in my Lyman 38/357 die set, but it made NO DIFFERENCE.

http://i66.tinypic.com/wrf1pt.jpg

Here is how much I am worried about it.

" It takes a worried man to sing a worried song,
It takes a worried man to sing a worried song.
I'm worried now, but I won't be worried long."

[P Flados]

BP,

Gotta give you a real attaboy on your man cave.

I share your pain with respect to having tools that just will not work like they should.


Tomme boy,

Some people get lucky & find 38/357 expander dies that will get the job done.

However, a lot of people try this and find that even stuff sold for the revolvers will not expand their 9mm brass enough (mine was no where near big enough).

I think there is one supplier (NOE I think) that makes expander plugs that allow you to pick the diameter. From what I have found recently, I could probably have saved myself some grief by just buying some plugs in 0.0005" increments from 0.355" up to 0.358" to let me find something that will do what I need using trial and error.

When I started, I now see that I did not have a good feel for what I needed for the brass ID after sizing, I did not have a good feel for how much "springback" to expect from the brass after expanding (varies greatly depending on maker), no clue as to how little my boolits would stretch the 9 mm cases during seating (next to nothing), and I did not realize how bad (way too much case diameter reduction) a "standard" 9 mm case sizing die was for my boolit loading needs.

In the long run it was a "learning experience" and it would seem that it ended up providing me with an "adequate excuse" to get myself a new toy (7x14 metal lathe) that I have wanted for a long time.

[robertbank]

Black prince I would lap the molds. What difference does it make if they cast out a bit different? You are going to size the bullets down to .357 so they all will end up being the same. I think we are over thinking this way to much.

Take Care

Bob

[Black Prince]

Well you are probably right Bob. I've got some lapping compound around here somewhere and I'll thread up some bullets and coat'em with the compound and give it a go. Can't hurt cause they are no good to me now anyway.

It started snowing here about 2 AM this morning and it's still coming down out there pretty good. The weatherman says it's gonna continue all day. I've got plenty of fire wood under good cover for the two wood stoves and the fire place, so I could care less if it snows. But those poor boogers who have to work and drive down there in Atlanta are in for one hellofva day. They are gonna be having wrecks everywhere. Sho am glad I'm retarded and can sit up here on the mountain, drink coffee, play my guitar, and sit in front of the stove. I may powder coat some of the Lee 124 grain round nose bullets and then, I may not. Life is good, but it'sa LOT BETTER when ya are retarded.

http://i66.tinypic.com/n4z52v.jpg

You can't see'em because it's snowing, but there are a lotta mountains right out there across the deck rail.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2r7agzr.jpg

Think I'm just gonna sit here and learn to play a new tune.

[robertbank]

Feeling for you. I have another 3 months of sitting around watching the sun go up and down before I will be able to do much with my right arm. I start physio on the 15th, life as you say is good.

BTW you got about as much snow as we have up here. We got 2 feet about three weeks ago but it has been raining off and on ever since so we are down to about six inches on the valley floor. Lots of snow up on top though.

Take care and let us know how you make out.

Take Care

Bob

[Black Prince]

http://i63.tinypic.com/douz3t.jpg

It's up to 5 inches deep now and snowing at about 3/4 inch per hour. Looks like we are gonna get 8 or 10 inches up here on tha mountain before it's all over according to the weatherman. Some of it will melt today and freeze into black ice tonight. Tomorrow will be a dangerous day to drive up here in the mountains. Even though I've got 4 WD, I'm NOT GOING ANYWHERE. I am always amazed at all the cars and trucks I see off the road down the mountain side against a big oak or rock after one of these little snows. People just can't stand it. They have just gotta go get some bread and milk whether they need it or not. They don't seem to understand that gravity is twice as strong up here on these mountain roads and when you start up or down the mountain, gravity combines with snow and ice to make sure you don't go where you wanna go. You can go fine in these conditions on flat ground, but these mountains change that dynamic right quick like. Even 4 WD and tire chains will not change that.

http://i64.tinypic.com/32zm73l.jpg

It's stopped snowing so hard and now some of the mountains are peaking out. But it supposed to start again any minute, so I put another log in the stove down here and started a fire in the one upstairs. Let'er snow. If it keeps this up, I'll start a fire in the fire place too. HAW!!! This ain't no step for ah mountain man.

[robertbank]

4 Wheel drive often just means you get stuck further and deeper. First thing you have to realize is you have to go slow. Brakes and ice just don't go well together no matter the shoes your vehicles are wearing. When I was young and invincible nothing could stop me. Now a book and a pot of coffee has a certain attraction when it is snowing like you got right now.

Enjoy a quiet day.

Take Care

Bob

[vzerone]

We have about that and it's still coming down here in TN!! I'm thinking the winters here have changed. They said rain with snow furries today on the weather news, yeah right.

[robertbank]

We have about that and it's still coming down here in TN!! I'm thinking the winters here have changed. They said rain with snow furries today on the weather news, yeah right.

I look forward to planting coconut trees in the back yard. "Sam McGee was from Tennessee" and he had the right idea. Shut the oven door you are letting in a draft. I dislike winter!

Take Care

Bob

[vzerone]

Well from what I've heard Bob, B.C. doesn't have as bad weather as the rest of Canada. I have a friend that lives in Vancouver and he said the weather is very nice there for being in Canada.

[robertbank]

Well from what I've heard Bob, B.C. doesn't have as bad weather as the rest of Canada. I have a friend that lives in Vancouver and he said the weather is very nice there for being in Canada.

Well the Lower Mainland and the Island are rather unique. NE BC is as cold as it gets. Living near the coast has some advantages even here in the NW. Coming from Alberta winters here are pretty easy to take. Snow is still snow, I remain a Sam McGee disciple :-o My relatives left Queens, NY back in 1780 for Ontario. They could have just as easy gone South. I didn't have a vote!

Take Care

Bob

[skeettx]

Black Prince, I really like the SR-71
What an air CRAFT
Mike

[Black Prince]

4 Wheel drive often just means you get stuck further and deeper. First thing you have to realize is you have to go slow. Brakes and ice just don't go well together no matter the shoes your vehicles are wearing. When I was young and invincible nothing could stop me. Now a book and a pot of coffee has a certain attraction when it is snowing like you got right now.

Enjoy a quiet day.

Take Care

Bob

Yep. I can usually get around where I want to go except when the roads ice over. It's the knuckleheads that don't have 4 WD or tire chains that block up the roads by turning sideways and can't get straight and then one or two more stop behind that one and now you have a road block.

http://i68.tinypic.com/23i9s1k.jpg

I drive this. It's got 4 WD and 20 inch, eight spoke chrome rims and off road tires. It's also gotta one inch lift kit just cause I wanted more tire clearance. I have chains for when I absolutely gotta go. This thing has traction control and it's amazing how much better it is over the old 4 WD's that had locked differentials and we had to get out and manually lock in the hubs to engage 4 WD. I've been driving Toyota Land Cruisers since 1976 until 2000 when they just priced me out of that market. Been driving these 4 WD Tundras since then. I bought this truck second hand from a local electrical company that trades in their trucks every two years when it had 47,000 miles on it. For a Toyota, that isn't even broken in yet. It just turned over 67,000 on my last trip over to Mississippi to deer hunt. It is pictured in front of a friends house near Vaiden, Mississippi. That is why you see all that FLAT land.

But it will not go anywhere and neither will that 4 wheeler up in the truck bed even though it has new tires and V-bar chains on it. So I have a 3500 pound Warn best quality wench bolted to the front of it. Now by golly, if I have enough cable to reach anything big enough to hold it, I can go dang near anywhere which comes in mighty handy in those Mississippi swamps. It also makes loading that 4 wheeler up in that high off the ground truck bed easy and safe. The days of me riding it up in there are O-V-E-R!!! Didja ever notice how scar tissue seems to make you smarter??

[Shingle]

WOW before id go through all that just slap a plain base gas check on those bad boys that usually ends most issues. Good luck.

[robertbank]

Yup on the scars.

I like your truck. I bought my last new truck on 2016...a Tacoma TDR Sport. Goes anywhere I need to go in the winter. I have highway tires on it so it is not something I want to take on mud with. The truck should last me as long as I am likely to be driving. The folks in El Paso, TX make a pretty decent truck.

Take Care

Bob

[Black Prince]

WOW before id go through all that just slap a plain base gas check on those bad boys that usually ends most issues. Good luck.

Hornady crimp on gas checks are running 4 cents each now the last time I checked. I can buy Berry copper plated bullets for 7 cents each and not have to do any casting, sizing or lubing. Gas checks can be cost efficient if you are shooting magnum loads or rifle loads and need them although I've been shooting .357 and .44 magnum loads for over 50 years without them. Elmer Keith didn't need'em and I don't need'em. For the three cents price difference, I'll choose to load solid jacket bullets and not mess with making bullets. But, that's just me.

Thanks for your advice. You are correct. That would indeed solve the problem.

[Dusty Bannister]

WOW before id go through all that just slap a plain base gas check on those bad boys that usually ends most issues. Good luck.

Black Prince, I think this is what Shingle is referring to.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?342764-Vs-Plain-Base-Gas-checks-for-Sale-also-formed-precussion-cap-cups

They are a lot less expensive that Hornady Checks, and yes, they are applied on plain based bullets, not gas check style bullets. Dusty

[Black Prince]

THANKS Dusty. I just sent him a PM. That is a solution that is cost efficient and at the price he quotes, I'll do that inna heart beat. If it works, that'll be a soultion I can live with and use the molds I already have. Is this a GREAT place for reloaders or what?