No neck expansion

[Flashman929]

Hi ya folks...

So I just made the jump to BPCR, after a couple of decades of loading and shooting smokeless.

I'm loading for .45-70, starting off with brass fire formed to my single shot chamber. After mic'ing everything, I figure my brass neck ID should come out at .460, taking springback into account. That'll leave me with. 001 to .003 clearance over my as cast bullet diameter.

Is this sufficient to seat without neck expansion? If I can avoid it and work the brass less, that'd be great. Given the largest expander die I see is .460 anyway, I don't think I'd gain anything anyway?

Cheers

[303Guy]

I'm of the opinion that it would be fine. It would probably depend on the burning characteristics of BP but with muzzle loaders there is no neck tension anyway. With smokeless I don't size necks. I rely on the neck to paper friction to hold the boolit. I have done some plain cast and then I relied on setting the boolit in the neck with a waxy lube I concocted for the purpose. With varget I got good results. I do something similar for my hornet with j-words and get pretty good accuracy. So it seems that zero neck tension can be Ok. All I want is for the boolit to stay in place with handling and chambering. Some folks seat paper patch boolits further out and let chambering seat the boolit against the leade. Mine are tighter than that usually.

[Wayne Smith]

When I was loading for a Trapdoor the most accurate load used unsized brass, finger set boolit, and just enough crimp to keep the boolit in place. That was with 2FG Goex. I'd say you have no problems.

[Flashman929]

Thanks gents.

I googled up and down but didn't find anything answering this specific question. Obviously I'm 99% sure that fired brass will have clearance to not shave lead, but I've never reloaded cast before, it's all been precision & hunting rifle and shotgun. Dumb question I know, feel stupid asking it, but you know what they say... just wanted to have a warm and fuzzy that I didn't need to order expander plugs for my dies before I was faced with a new rifle, empty brass and my tears over not having the required tools to hand.

I'm used to using a few thou neck tension, but I've only ever loaded ja****ed bullets up 'till now, not counting ML shooting. Been casting for about six months, and have more or less abandoned smokeless and ja****ed shooting. It's so much fun it's not funny.

I'll be using a Lee Loader for the .45-70, entirely for fun, skipping the sizing step and just applying a crimp. Just seems more appropriate than using one of my modern presses, and gives me time to track down a Lyman 310 set to go authentically old school. May have to cheat and do the powder compression on a press, but we'll see.

I'll load right to the lands to start, hopefully that will give me enough case room to make it workable, and it's where I've always had best accuracy too. The only rifle I've had that liked jump was a Sako 85 that punched ragged groups with any bullet I tried seated to cannalure depth.

[Wayne Smith]

Well, I will say that loading cast and black for the first time - you have to get to know your rifle. I tried any number of combinations with that Trapdoor before I stumbled on the procedure that worked. Be willing to try anything, see what your rifle likes.

[Flashman929]

For sure, that's the fun part! I've got a couple of molds en route, 2F and 3F at hand and a plan to try the different combinations of them to find out. Just waiting on primers too, all the other components I have.

[Flashman929]

Huh. Well, first load I tried, 535 Postell over 70 grains Goex 2F did this, first three rounds at 100 yards getting sighted in. Seems to work ok.

https://preview.ibb.co/jeZqcQ/20170820_171748.jpg (https://ibb.co/bC2yWk)

[Blackwater]

That's one heck of a good start, Flash! WAY better than I had! But ultimately, I'm with Wayne, and nothing but trying different things will tell you what your gun wants to shoot its best. It's really amazing how accurate those grand old guns can be, even at very long ranges, like 800-1,000 yds! And shooting BPCR is a total pursuit unto itself. When I started, I thought the usual practices I'd learned with smokeless OUGHT to work with black, but noooooooooooo! Seems I've had to learn most everything the HARD way! But even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then if he just keeps rootin'! And once you learn ...... gee golly wow is it FUN! And when you go out, and hit something at a "fur piece," with yer ol' "bullfler rifle," it CAN be a real source of pleasure .... however short-lived that pleasure usually is, at least. Seems you're on the right track. Having someone who's experienced sure does help to learn this sport! Have fun!