45-70 Cast Bullet weight Advice & Light Loads

[smokepolehall]

I joined seeking help, n i know this has been asked many time through the yrs. I have a NEF 45-70, the Factory ammo isn't all that pleasant to shoot. Being 67 n disabled i am looking for 100 yds n under, most likely under a 75 yds in my woods. I no longer need a shoulder buster, i bought this nice single shot to enjoy my hunting for deer. I see cast bullets from 300 gr past 500gr. Thinking a 45-70 will make a hole through a deer's chest. I have not even purchased a loading set, i doubt i will shoot 20 rounds a yr after i get an accurate load worked up.

[buckshotshoey]

I shoot a 325 gr flat nose (RCBS), 50 grains Varget. Recoil is 12 gauge or less. I'd say 16 gaugeish. And still has 1600 ft/lbs at muzzle.

[jmort]

I use this around 1,350 fps most of the time.

200842

[John Boy]

Mort - here are some easy loads for you:
405 grain LEAD TRAPDOOR Loads
IMR 4198 21.5 gr. 733 (MAX is 28.5 @ 1,195 fps)
IMR 4198 28.0 gr. 1,125 (from bdmolloy@mlode.com)
IMR 3031 34.0 gr. 1,061 (Max is 38.5 @ 1,304 fps)

[DocSavage]

You might want to try Trail Boss or 4227 in your 45/70. I use 4227 myself but I can't recall the load but it's quite comfortable in my Sharps. You might want to look up Unique powder as well.

[smokepolehall]

I think i need to add abit more info, i am going to purchase cast bullets. so will 300 gr or 330 gr or 350gr do well on deer. Powder i have on hand is Blue Dot, 4759, VV110, H4198 & RL7. Say i only load up 25 to 50 rounds a yr what type of Dies would i need? I don't want to come off being a wimp on recoil but since i had that fight with a Blk Jack oak in 2014 n lost its abit ruff at times

[buckshotshoey]

A few numbers from the recoil calculator.....

16 ga. 1oz load (437.5gr) 1165 fps.
Recoil = 18.1

12 ga 1 1/4 oz. (546.9 gr) Federal field load 1220 fps
Recoil.... 28.4

12 ga 1 1/8 oz. (492.2 gr) 1255 fps
Recoil.... 25.1

45- 70. 325 gr boolit. 1500fps
Recoil.... 23.7


If you stay around 325 gr, and 1500 to 1600 fps, the numbers say it will be less then a 12 ga.

[Scharfschuetze]

First, let me welcome you to the forum. Lots of like minded shooters as you here. The 45/70 almost always has an active thread somewhere on the site.

You might like the old US Cavalry load that was called the 45/55/405. It killed plenty of game on the plains during the US Army Cavalry expeditions in the 1870s and 1880s.

It's a very mild load and will certainly put a through and through hole through a deer at the ranges you predict. Your velocity goal is 1,100 fps to match the old load and it will shoot well in original, replica or lever action rifles.

I cast the Lee 405 grain hollow base bullet or the Lyman 457193 bullets (plain base) or use the Oregon Train 405 grain bullet. I pick those up at their business in Baker City, Oregon and then size them to .460" and lube with either NRA 50/50 formula or SPG.

Almost any of the pistol powders will work. Unique is a good choice, but powders such as 4227, 4198 or SR 4759 are also good choices to get to 1,100 fps.

Accuracy is great and more to the topic at hand, you can shoot it all day long without developing a flinch or hurting your shoulder. I shoot it to 200 to 300 yards regularly and it holds to 5 or 6 inches all day long at 200 yards. Over the years, I have found the 405 grain bullets to be tops for accuracy and they perform well at most any range you care to shoot to.

For dies given your limited numbers, almost any die set will work. I use RCBS, but I also use a Lyman neck sizing die as well as the Lyman "M Die" for expanding and belling my cases for the larger than jacketed cast bullets (.460" vs. 458"). Just be sure that you get a 3 die set (sizing die, belling die, and seating and crimp die) for your project. The 45/70 is best loaded as if it was a revolver cartridge.

Good luck!

[bullseye67]

Good evening,
I shoot a lot of 350gr and 390gr boolits with 16gr of TrailBoss. It is a top load for trapdoor rifles, but is real easy on the shoulder and "pop can" accurate out to 75 yards and rings a steel 8X10 plate at 150. I would use a LEE wacker to load for that low of volume. I use one with my old trapdoor to keep the brass separate. Works like a charm. I bring 50 loaded rounds and powder, boolits and primers. If the weather holds and the range isn't too busy I load them up again and again. Some days I have all the rifle shooting I want and only have the old trapdoor to clean up when I get home.
Have an awesome week :drinks:

[buckshotshoey]

He's using a NEF Single shot. How about using good ol black powder? BP substitute? That barrel will disassemble and clean really easy. Much easier then a lever gun for sure. What would that do to the recoil for a given velocity?

[Elmer Fudd]

I just shot some 450 LFN gas checked cast from 95% COWW and 5% Pb morpohodite mix over 32.5 gr IMR4198 through (11) eleven gallon water jugs, yes full of water, last night. To compare, a 350 Hawk FN over 50.0 gr IMR 4198 penetrated into the fifth jug. Both had spectacular splash in the first 4.
The expander measured three bullet diameters. The cast left a single diameter hole through its next seven jugs, splitting most of them at one place or another but not exploding them, then continued onward toward the next county.

Those 450s were likely going 1350 from my 1895G. The Hawk was likely 400+ more than that.

In my experience, the bullet selection drives shot placement in the 45/70. Velocity is mostly irrelevant, other than if you don't wish to bruise meat. Lighter expanding bullets can emphatically kill when used in meat-saver mode (rear lung, no shoulder). Harder, heavier cast can be placed anywhere and/or shot through anything in order to reach kill areas (heart, spine, autonomic plexus) without bruising much if any meat. For example, I took a pronghorn in the spine with a 350 RD cast from water quenched WW; I ate the backstrap with the hole in it after I picked out the hair. No bruising or meat damage. The slower bullets make for good results and minimal meat damage. Think of it as the opposite of a 125 ballistic tip in a 300 wby.

[rmark]

I've recently been using 26.0 grains SR4759 with a 315 grain NOE gas checked bullet from a light barreled 45-70 Uberti/Pedersoli sharps, good groups out to 100 yards. I do wear a PAST shoulder pad at the range. Stick to Trapdoor level loads to save your shoulder.

[smokepolehall]

I am reading many posts on this Forum. I have ordered a Lee Classic loader. I have CCI rifle primers, several of the powders y'all have posted. I have 5 pieces of Win. brass n will add the other 15 in this month.
I guess i will order some Meister 300gr .458 RNFP bullets to work with.

[MAGA]

I like 300gr with unique for plinking it's very mild recoil. 405's kick a little more but not bad with unique

[stubert]

If you are going to shoot lead, .458 will likely be to small. Slug the bore. I shoot a Marlin Guide gun at .460 diam.

[Cactus5479]

Another load to consider is 12 gr of Green Dot behind a Lee 345 gr or Oregon Trail 350 gr bullet. Both produce just under 1200 fps and shoot accurately for me out to 200 yds, albeit with a considerable drop. Recoil is very mild and it will do a job on a whitetail out to 100 yds easily.

[smokepolehall]

I ordered the 350 gr rnfp cast bullets .458, that is the largest dia. they show on the 45-70. I reckon if'en they don't work. I can melt them down and pour the lead into my REAL bullet mold for my .50 cal ML.

[pitchfire]

I'm going to diverge from the good advice you have received and point out what I believe makes more sense. You stated that factory ammo isn't pleasant to shoot and that you wont shoot more than around 20/yr. There is a lot of 45-70 factory ammo out there including the very good Remington Core-Lokt 405 grain jacketed at 1330fps. If this round isn't pleasant to shoot, then the Winchester Super-X cowboy loads are 405gr@1150. If that is still too much then by all means get reloading with Trail Boss for it (for 800-1000+fps with the same 405 grain bullet). If you are only going to be firing 20 rds/yr, it would take you a number of years before buying the dies, brass, bullets, primers, powder, and anything else will equalize cost wise. Of course you get versatility, freedom to do what you want and future security with reloading and casting for that matter...

[smokepolehall]

I'm going to diverge from the good advice you have received and point out what I believe makes more sense. You stated that factory ammo isn't pleasant to shoot and that you wont shoot more than around 20/yr. There is a lot of 45-70 factory ammo out there including the very good Remington Core-Lokt 405 grain jacketed at 1330fps. If this round isn't pleasant to shoot, then the Winchester Super-X cowboy loads are 405gr@1150. If that is still too much then by all means get reloading with Trail Boss for it (for 800-1000+fps with the same 405 grain bullet). If you are only going to be firing 20 rds/yr, it would take you a number of years before buying the dies, brass, bullets, primers, powder, and anything else will equalize cost wise. Of course you get versatility, freedom to do what you want and future security with reloading and casting for that matter...

Duh on me, all i have found in this burg i live close to is the Win. Super X at 1880 fps. I have ordered the loader n bullets, they won't be a wasted effort. I will load n shoot light loads n enjoy some shooting. Its been a long time, at least 15 yrs or more. I will look for those ammo you have stated n those fps some less shoulder thumping. thank you

[725]

You beat me to it! I highly recommend the Lee Classic Loader. So much good advice above to try and shoot. If you have access to the Lyman reload manual, I'd stick to the low end trap door level loads. You may find the commercial cast bullets a bit too small and they may lead to leading of the barrel. Won't know until you try. One thing I would also do is make some Ben's LL (check it out in the lube section of this forum). Even though the bullets you purchase are (may be) lubed, it will pay you to add more lube, and Ben's tumble lube is the stuff to use. Follow the instructions. You want it to go on thin and "less is more", no kidding:). You can do more than one coat but that you will determine from experience.
Recoil is an issue in a light gun throwing heavy bullets. You can install a mercury recoil dampener in the stock simply enough (ask about how to if you are interested) or partially fill the stock attachment hole (under the recoil pad) with some lead shot. At the discharge, it slams around in there and lessens felt recoil quite a bit. Good luck and welcome aboard.

[W.R.Buchanan]

You can order boolits from Beartooth Bullets in any size you want. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/index.htm

For your .45-70 try 300 gr plain based boolits sized .459-.460. They come ready to load.

For those boolits ( Boolits are cast from lead, Bullets have Copper Jackets on them thus the different spelling)

Try 25 gr of XMR5744 powder. This will yield about 1200 fps which should produce a relatively light recoil.

Your gun is light and thus won't attenuate recoil very much. Having a decent Pachmayer Recoil Pad installed will help a lot.

Randy

[smokepolehall]

Had my 1st set back. The Lee hand loader i ordered was back ordered n shipping date of Sept. 25th, so i cancelled my order. I ordered a set of dies from Natchez, Redding, FL of which i will adjust to neck size. I received my 350gr cast boolits. I hope to work up some decent loads next week. All of my hunting is less than 100 yds for tick toters

[W.R.Buchanan]

please note: I manufacture the best Hand Press ever made, and they are in stock ready to ship.

201703

Randy