What is your faith !

[Boaz]

Hebrews was written by Paul . To those who like to mislead and misguide or argue I understand that is 'debatable' . In my mind Paul wrote Hebrews and that is the way I will truthfully try to explain it . Paul was given a life of hardship by our Lord , he was tested and in the end was a new creature . Paul understood ..faith .

Hebrews 11;1-3

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

[Preacher Jim]

Boaz my Faith is in God because Jesus rescued me an brought me into the family. I was lost could not find Hope, money failed, things failed, life was hopeless and Jesus came along and loved me into the family.

[Boaz]

Faith can not be held in your hand . Faith can not be defined by what you taste , smell , see or hear . Faith resides in your mind and in your heart . Faith is believing . Faith is knowing . Faith is in the indwelling spirit within you .

[Boaz]

Boaz my Faith is in God because Jesus rescued me an brought me into the family. I was lost could not find Hope, money failed, things failed, life was hopeless and Jesus came along and loved me into the family.

Thank you Jim . GOD leads (lol , I'm talking to a preacher !) , It is an experience hard to understand until you have had the experience it's self . Nothing and no one is infallible except GOD . Paul was a monster , loved the killing and persecution of GOD's people . But GOD shut him down ! He changed him . He was made new . Our GOD is a loving and merciful GOD that gives hope , gives love and a second chance .

Paul wrote most of the New Testament . He was a late comer but he was on fire to bring and spread GOD's word . That is part of the reason I wanted to give him credit at the beginning . Paul was a whole nother miracle in himself created by GOD .

[Boaz]

So another post on here where if we don't agree with something someone else asserts to be a fact we are mislead, misguided and like to argue! What a great way to present a nugget of insight.

For what it is worth, "To the Hebrews" is not as much of a letter as it is a sermon. Since it is not signed (or even addressed) we cannot know for certain who the author was. Obviously it was meant for Jewish people. The orderliness of it suggests to me it was sermon presented more than once that was recorded and polished a bit prior to circulation. Whether or not Paul was the author is of little consequence, but it doesn't resemble any of his letters. But like I said, it was not really a letter.

I started reading your post and stopped before I finished the first sentence . I am no one , I have no authority . I can not tell you what or what not to do .

[Boaz]

I will let Ickisrulz take it from here .

[jcwit]

My Faith is first in my God, then in my Pope, then in my Priest!

I do wish my Pope would get his act together tho, and stay out of world politicts!

Actually it seems to me as if most here wish to chase away anyone here not of Southern Baptist believe!

[GhostHawk]

Way to make me feel ashamed to be part of this group guys.

Both of you.

Ickisrulz "So another post on here where if we don't agree with something someone else asserts to be a fact we are mislead, misguided and like to argue! What a great way to present a nugget of insight."

You call that Christian? I call that satan's work.

No sir, you always have the option to not hit that post button. To walk away and wait for a post you agree with. Looks to me like you were the one picking a fight. But it is not about that is it?

Brother Boaz, you know I love you dearly. But if Ickis wants to play that way I expect you to take the high moral ground. Once he jumps in looking for a fight do not say another word. Just stay out of it. Let him waste his words on empty air.

Hard I know.

Mod's can we get this closed, deleted, or something?

[claude]

Obviously it was meant for Jewish people.

In truth it was meant for the HEBREW people ("To the Hebrews") of which the Jewish people are only a small part.

The author is GOD regardless of who put pen to paper so the little diversions debating authorship are useless, furthermore they are counterproductive taking the focus away from God and putting it on men.

Even should one try to confine it ("to the Hebrews") it is still written to all of us and is just as important today as it was the day it was set forth. In truth the entire bible is just as important today as ever.

Our faith has been authored and is being finished by Christ, Israelite and Gentile alike, the only division is in the duties of each group. Heb 12:2

He comes to us in the entire book, Ps 40:7, Heb 10:9, no one part more important that the other.

The most important part is that we believe GOD, not men, believe THE WORD, not men. Eph 5:6, 2 Thes 2:3 "Let no man deceive you.......by any means." 1John 3:7. Three times for emphasis, straight from the lips of the LIVING GOD.

We don't live by the words of men, but,

(Deuteronomy 8:3) "And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live."

(Matthew 4:4) "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

(Luke 4:4) "And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."

Perhaps this is all overkill, but I don't see life accredited to the words of men anywhere in there, mostly quite the opposite.

Is that my way or the highway? Or is that GOD'S way or the highway? You decide. If this hasn't gotten it said, there is no sense wasting any more time on it.

Adieu

[Thundarstick]

It's not a blind faith, that's for sure! We have miracles and witnesses to the truth that is Jesus the Christ!

[Preacher Jim]

Chapel is not the place to debate or discuss theology
Last warning

[Preacher Jim]

JC I work with priests, pastors, ministers and we all respect one another know we view scripture differently respect that and work to bring folks to Christ as savior and not debate the difference between us because we know Jesus is head of the church and Lord of all.
Our priest wishes the pope would stick to the church and stay out of political debates.

[Wayne Smith]

I'll follow Paul and state that "somewhere it says" that no one comes to Christ without the Holy Spirit first drawing (or attracting or convicting) them. In reponse to a client question I explained that 'condemnation' is what man does, the conviction of the Holy Spirit is either a sudden or dawning realization of my sin. It is more an awareness of complete helplesness than guilt. We tend to respond to man's condemnation with guilt, true or false. We respond to God with helplessness.

How is this related to faith? Even my faith is given me by God. When I am convicted of my sin (it is an ongoing process) with faith I turn to Him and confess. This, among other things, strengthens my faith. Without faith I remain helpless and overwhelmed. This is why God gives us faith.

So .. my faith is, itself, a gift of God. It's not mine, it's mine to exercise. The more I exercise it, the more I know God, the greater it is and the more I surrender to Him. The better I know Him the easier it is to practice faith. It is a dynamic process, not a thing to be dissected.


PS: False guilt = man's condemnation (family, church, etc.)
True guilt = sin against God

[Boaz]

JC I am a Baptist . I have never said anything derogatory about a Catholic or their church here. I have encouraged them to participate in the praise , encouragement and prayer here in the Chapel . You have never seen me demean ANYONE here because of their church affiliation . Pit discussions don't happen here .

[buckwheatpaul]

Faith is like the wind you cant hold it yet it is there....when I gave my life over to Jesus my worries became less and my faith grew. Faith is on your heart and permeates your soul and God smiles!

[Hickory]

The great people of the Bible all endured hardship and suffering to (as I see it) to shape their life and hone off the rough edges of their personality, to refine their insight to who God is and to know what our role in life is.
God doesn't give us his gift of everlasting life and then let us go on our merry way. No, God wants as many people to receive his gift of love and salvation as possible before his return. This is you job as a Christian.
Just as a sculptor will turn a rock into a great work of art, God does the same thing to those who believe and have faith in him, he chips away the things that are not needed in your life to make a better and more righteous person out of you. At times it's hard and sometimes painful but always rely on you FAITH and keep your eyes on Him.

[Boaz]

The great people of the Bible all endured hardship and suffering to (as I see it) to shape their life and hone off the rough edges of their personality, to refine their insight to who God is and to know what our role in life is.
God doesn't give us his gift of everlasting life and then let us go on our merry way. No, God wants as many people to receive his gift of love and salvation as possible before his return. This is you job as a Christian.
Just as a sculptor will turn a rock into a great work of art, God does the same thing to those who believe and have faith in him, he chips away the things that are not needed in your life to make a better and more righteous person out of you. At times it's hard and sometimes painful but always rely on you FAITH and keep your eyes on Him.

Thank you .

[jcwit]

JC I work with priests, pastors, ministers and we all respect one another know we view scripture differently respect that and work to bring folks to Christ as savior and not debate the difference between us because we know Jesus is head of the church and Lord of all.
Our priest wishes the pope would stick to the church and stay out of political debates.

Well put!

[jcwit]

JC I am a Baptist . I have never said anything derogatory about a Catholic or their church here. I have encouraged them to participate in the praise , encouragement and prayer here in the Chapel . You have never seen me demean ANYONE here because of their church affiliation . Pit discussions don't happen here .

If you notice, I didn't point fingers at anyone in particular. Don't take it to heart.

[Preacher Jim]

JC I am a Southern Baptist pastor. Shock you well that is where to Lord Jesus placed me. I never intended to be a pastor I studied theology and Bible not to be a pastor. Strange how the Lord puts us in strange places to serve Him. My only concern is for all to come to a personal relationship to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

[Grmps]

JC I work with priests, pastors, ministers and we all respect one another know we view Scripture differently respect that and work to bring folks to Christ as savior and not debate the difference between us because we know Jesus is head of the church and Lord of all.
Our priest wishes the pope would stick to the church and stay out of political debates.

My parents were Presbyterian missionaries. They worked closely with all the other denominations. The SDA's and Catholics (I had/have good friends from both) maintained their own services, the rest founded the Church Of Christ in Thailand and shared 1 english speaking service where they preached the word of God and stayed away from the differances. Who are we to judge. I grew up nondenominational and worship in the church I feel speaks to me.

Not many people know that Buddha never proclaimed to be a God, just a profit. And was discussed the coming of Christ. Like many religions/denominations, Budisim was corrupted by the state. The High budist priests were easier to convert than the layman because they had read/read the old budist teachings. You will find honest people and hippocrits in all walks of life. I like the saying, " Show me your faith by your works, not your words". Talk is cheap. Words can cut worse than a double edge sword.

[johnho]

What is my faith? Uh oh, I'm a minority for sure. I'm a Jew. My GF is Christian and we have some darn good discussions, never arguments. To me it's meaningless what faith anyone is really. To me there is one God. There can only be ONE God. I think all of us who believe in God can agree with that. What difference does it make how you get to God? Does it really make any difference on the details to that path?

'

[Thundarstick]

What difference does it make how you get to God? Does it really make any difference on the details to that path?

Jhn 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
According to Christ it does.

What keeps you from being a Jew and a Christian? Just wondering.

[Preacher Jim]

Johnho my wife is a completed jew her grandfather was a rabbi.
Her mother also accepted Jesus as messiah and Savior study Isiah

[jmort]

"Does it really make any difference on the details to that path?"

We will all get to find out.

[Hogtamer]

Moving along to Hebrews 12 we find: 14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled.

Hebrews is so profound I read it perhaps more than any other book, well, Maybe 1 John. To sum it up how about this: Jesus is better than ________________. Fill in the blank with anything else. Certainly better than petty bickering. Seems lately there is a deep root of bitterness that has taken hold of this forum, that peace and holiness have taken flight. Whoever wrote Hebrews is at peace in the bosum of Jesus, having left a legacy of the very faith about which he was so passionate. I still have occasional gut-pangs of guilt for stink I stirred up that spoiled my testimony as a follower of Christ. Oh how I defiled the very Word that I professed. I thank God that his mercy is new every morning! Back a couple of chapters is the worthy expression that we are to gather ourselves together...to stir up love and good works. In Jesus' name let's strive to do just that.

[Boaz]

Moving along to Hebrews 12 we find: 14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled.

Hebrews is so profound I read it perhaps more than any other book, well, Maybe 1 John. To sum it up how about this: Jesus is better than ________________. Fill in the blank with anything else. Certainly better than petty bickering. Seems lately there is a deep root of bitterness that has taken hold of this forum, that peace and holiness have taken flight. Whoever wrote Hebrews is at peace in the bosum of Jesus, having left a legacy of the very faith about which he was so passionate. I still have occasional gut-pangs of guilt for stink I stirred up that spoiled my testimony as a follower of Christ. Oh how I defiled the very Word that I professed. I thank God that his mercy is new every morning! Back a couple of chapters is the worthy expression that we are to gather ourselves together...to stir up love and good works. In Jesus' name let's strive to do just that.

I'm totally agreeing with you on Hebrews Hogtamer . And if you couple it with James you come out feeling like you truly understand a lot . Excellent companion books . James can help you implement Hebrews in your walk with GOD .

It bothers me to see Christians arguing here more than anything . I was a mod on a Interdenominational Christian gun form long ago . Being as it was 'Christian" it was a magnet for atheists and trolls and nuts . It lasted about 5 months , all the mods were intentionally chosen from different churches . We all got along great and worked hard to together . But in the end it was not the atheists , trolls and nuts that destroyed the forum ...it was the Christians themselves continually arguing . The preacher that started it shut it down .

We are here to not only gain understanding for ourselves and spread the gospel but to encourage one another in that work . To offer prayer for those in need . Enlightenment to the ones who do not know him . Encouragement to each other in our faith through our love for a neighbor . To give praise to the GOD we serve .

[johnho]

I see I totally did not understand the title of this thread or this subforum. I apologize for interfering in your discussion.

[Boaz]

It would have been easy to do that . But you are welcome here .

[Blackwater]

Well, everyone who's posted has a definite point. All I can add is that "arguing" as it's generally perceived today, as being violently and haughtily conducted, really IS a bad thing that accomplishes nothing except driving stakes between differing types of believers. Discussion and legitimate debate, on the other hand, are fruitful, if we'll simply let it be so. There's a reason we were admonished to "study to show thyself approved," and it wasn't meant to JUST be the reading of the Word, but discussion among ourselves, even among denominations, about the true meaning BEHIND the words. That old saying, "two heads are better than one, even if one IS a goat's head" comes to mind stongly! I've learned SO much from others that I doubt I'd have found on my own! Others have a different history and from that, a different perspective than I do, and thus, often "see" things in the scriptures that I may tend to miss. And maybe visa versa?

Discussing the Bible and Christ and the meaning of His and the disciples' words will always be a VERY worth pursuit for all of us. Arguing and dividing ourselves may be the "modern way" to "discuss" issues, but it's surely not God's way!!! When we get to arguing among ourselves, I keep thinking of that old verse from Shakespeare, "What fools these mortals be!" And that's not to disparage anyone, but to remind us all (myself included, if not most prominently!), that we are to serve our Lord in ALL that we do, and separating ourselves one from another on the basis of the "little things" is so obviously counter-productive and just plain WRONG that none of us here need it explained to us.

But human tendencies are to do what's easiest and whatever impulse and emotions provoke us to do. It takes God's help to hold our peace until we've escaped our innate impulses, and can conduct ourselves honorably and righteously one with another. Personally, I've found so much outside my own Baptist faith that has really taught me significant and myriad things, that I don't think I'll ever let denominational differences get between me and another believer. If anything, I seek out those with differing perceptions than my own, so I might learn from them. I may just reaffirm my own convictions, but this world is surely big enough for different takes on the Bible than just my own!

Our diversity CAN work FOR us, rather than against us, if only we'll allow it to! Blessed be the name and the service of the Lord!

[Boaz]

I don't argue .

[Tritium]

If this is not the right section then please move or delete.
The New Testament tells me that the church is the "Bride" of Christ and his "Body" over and over in many passages!
Here are my 3 questions:
1. What mans bride does not carry his name out of respect for the head of the marriage as the New Testament describes? If my bride had refused my name then she would not have been my bride.

2. What man calls his body a different name than his head? For example my name is Thurmond and it applies head to toe. I do not call my body Charlie, Jim, John, Erasmus etc. or any other name.

3. Given the above facts are very clear, why are there so many church names?

[Blackwater]

Good question, Tritium, and the answer is, "Because there's so many differing takes on it." Whatever the reasons for it, and I suspect there are myriads of them, some folks tend to latch onto one concept in the Bible above all others, and emphasize that. If it suits them, and proves useful for them, I have no problem with that. It's only when one from ANY segment or strain of our Christian beliefs gets haughty enough to declare that ONLY their view is valid and true and believable, that I start rolling my eyes in my head and losing interest in that person's words. Christ instructed us to "study to show thyself approved," and by study, I cannot for the life of me believe that included simply declaring one's own view as THE "secret" to everything. Even Christ himself was one of the most consistently humble people to ever walk this earth! Stately, I'm sure, and sure of Himself because he actually KNEW things that we can only in this realm, simply BELIEVE.

This is probably just a willful idyll of mine, but I've come to suspect that it just MIGHT have been God's will that Martin Luther nailed his demands on the chapel's door, and the Protestant movement began, so that one man with a Bible could come across the ocean, and set up churches in the then "New World" of N. America. We protestants have the most portable "church system" that could possibly exist! And yet, having read some of Catholocism's greatest writers, I've found that so very much of their theology applies across the board to ALL segments of Christianity! Yes, they have their own methods and traditions, some of which I just can't find appealing, such as prayers of intercession rather than speaking straight to my Savior, as I think He instructed us to do. But there's no reason I've found to declare prayers of intercession wholly "wrong," either! I find their traditions of the confessional, and kneeling and praying at the altar, and even the lighting of candles, to be poignant and inspiring acts, that can't possibly hurt anyone in any sort of way, and are likely to edify and help govern the mind and behavior more reliably than most protestant traditions.

Personally, I find things I like in all the sects of Christianity, with the singular exception of some of the newest "sects" that tend largely to base their philosophies and beliefs more on PC theology than on the words and instruction and advice of the Bible. And it'll probably never end, human nature being what it is. But if we don't address the phenomena at least occasionally, if not regularly, how will it end except to work against ALL of Christianity and Christiandom???? This, I think, is one of the crucial battles we need to "fight" more often, so that we can UNITE and act as one, powerful lobby for our gov't, rather than little, powerless and ultimately "maningless" sects.

If all of Christianity, that's based on the essential versions of the Bible, would stick together, and work together ..... what a different world we'd have now! I'd think that would be very abundantly clear! Preacher Jim has mentioned recently how he and folks from his church work with those from many other sects to achieve mutually beneficial ends. THAT is the way Christianity OUGHT to operate! Let others have the emphasis they want or need in their sect, and choose our own sect according to OUR individual beliefs and concepts, as they edify us the most. What's wrong with that? And we CAN, if we'll but do so, "argue" points without being inciteful or accusatory. It was done for millenea by far less "modern" and less well "educated" folks than us! Why can't we do what the ancients could???? The only apparent answer, is our human will, the ego, and putting our feelings ahead of our edification and understanding of others. If God lets people decide for themselves what and how they'll believe, who are we, after all, to counter that and say that OUR way is THE way? I don't think Christ likes haughtiness much, and that's just plain haughty. And yeah, I've done it before, too, so I include myself in this if anyone thinks that's "bashing." I think we've all made essentially the same mistakes, albeit at differing times in our lives and probably in differing ways. The one thing I'd wish for, if God gave me a chance to do so, would be for Christians to unite, the world over, and simply accept our relatively minor differences, but unite in our prime beliefs, and operate as a unified group. "Hah! Fat chance of THAT ever happening!" That's what many will say or think. But again, that's haughtiness on OUR part if we think like that, and NOT God's will that we do so.

It's good to believe as thoroughly as you can in what your interpretation of the Word is, but it's even better to realize that there'll always be a great deal more for us to learn along the way, and not one of us will "know it all" by the time they leave this earth. I suspect Heaven will be full of surprises, of all sorts. Our only critical mission is that we get there, and bring our families and friends there with us. The rest is just details, and probably, up to half of them are probably not quite as we imagine they are anyway.

Being humble is THE most reliable mark of a Christian, I think, BECAUSE it's the humble person that mimics Christ. Christ was the literal Son of God, and yet, in all his dealings, he was self-assured, but humble in his dealings with us. What greater example could we ever have than THAT? He came to save us from ourselves and our sins, by laying down his life on the altar of the Cross, and shedding His perfect blood as an atonement for all our sins, forever. What more humble and committed act could our Savior have given us to follow? I think I can rest my case there, but as always, this is just MY take on it, and far from the last word. Just the last thing I've been able to "see" from my particular perspective, experience and knowledge. Yours may differ, and if so, that's OK by me, and I'll try to learn something from it if you care to post it here. I've learned things from every poster here, I think, who posts regularly, and some from those who've posted infrequently. I simply thirst for knowledge of my Lord, and I thirst more than I ever have before in my life. And I'm also happier and more contented than ever, too. Funny how those things tend to come together so regularly and reliably, isn't it?

[Bigslug]

I believe in Ammunition. (I guess that would make me a "Leaddite".:mrgreen:)

And that's not really a jest. The Second Amendment is about the only thing I regard as a "religious" article, as it's the final line in the sand that protects me from being beholden to the tenets of someone else's belief system.

[Thundarstick]

This should be in the theology section IMO.

How about God's household?
1Ti 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

How about new Jerusalem?
Rev 21:2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
How about The Church of the Firstborn?
Heb 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,


How about Mt Zion of City of the living God?
Heb 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly

I know, let's call the body God's Flock!

1Pe 5:2
Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve;

The body, or Church is referred to in many ways in the NT. Btw, the word interpreted church isn't interpreted as such consistently the better interpretation is just assembly. Nothing more or less.

[Boaz]

I would agree . It now belongs in Theological where it can die .

[Boaz]

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

[wv109323]

My understanding that Hebrews was written for the Jews as they converted from Judaism to Christianity. Many wanted to bring the ceremony of the Law to Christianity which is not needed.
Hebrews is a primer for early Jews but applies to today's Christians as well.
Christians that believe in the Trinity have some 98% of their belief in common with each other. The devil and man wants us to concentrate on the 2% difference.
Faith and belief go hand in hand that leads to obedience. You first believe there is a God. When you accept Him as your Savior then you start to have faith. With study and teaching/preaching your belief and faith is increased until it affects your behavior. To behave correctly you need obedience to God's will and Word. Obedience is better than sacrifice which is what Hebrews teaches.