IMR 4759 replacement? For reduced loads

[Engieman]

Any suggestions to take the place of the discontinued powder? Down to my last pound; I have used Unique which does the job, but looking for something that may fill the case a bit more. I shoot plinker loads out of my 1940's vintage Savage 99 .300, 100 grain bullet. Accurate, fun, and can shoot all day long. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks in advance

[Outpost75]

With very light cast bullets in the .30 calibers, from 100-130 grains, 4 grains of Bullseye is pretty hard to beat in any case from a .30 M1 carbine to a .30-'06 for a plinker and gallery load. It tolerates the free airspace well, does not require a filler and at 4 grains with 100-grain bullet in your .300 Savage a double-charge will only lead your barrel and not blow up the gun!

[Scharfschuetze]

Burning speed wise, 4198 is pretty close and I've used it with success in years past when out of 4759.

On the faster side: Reloader 7 and 4227 will also work as well as 2400

Were I ever out of 4759, the above powders would see constant use, although for your use of a very light bullet in the 30 cals, Bullseye is probably the right choice. I've used it in thousands of plinker loads for rabbits, vermin and tin cans with a 115 grain M1 Carbine bullet (cast and jacketed).

[Kestrel4k]

Having used pretty much all of the common reduced load powders for my subsonic load development, the only three that have proven to be a good substitute for /my/ dwindling stash of SR4759 are Trail Boss, Trail Boss, and Trail Boss. ;)

Other powders (such as Red Dot) can be excellent & certainly have their place, but SR4759 often does nicely when other powders fail to provide satisfactory accuracy. When that happens, Trail Boss is the ticket - it's always outperformed SR4759 for me. :)

[jhickdog]

From a clean burning standpoint, the dirtiest was the Bullseye. I short indoor 38/55 and have good accuracy and very clean with Trailboss.


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[jhickdog]

That's "shoot" not "short"


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[Mr Peabody]

I replaced my 4759 with Accurate 5744. Seems to work just fine.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Like MR Peabody I too like Accurate 5744. For mild loads in 300 Savage, 32 Special, 308 Win it is very consistent, accurate. I have also used 4227 successfully for the mild loads.

[jhickdog]

I'm following this discussion, because like Engieman, I sorry miss the 4759. It was the perfect powder for me. Squib loads, regular loads all shot well. With not having access to all the different powders, this forum is perfect


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[jbutts6785]

IMR 4198 is doing well for me in the .30-30 and the .32 Winchester Special.

[oldblinddog]

Alliant 300 MP. Use SR4759 data. You will find, however, that you will need about one grain more than SR 4759. My load with the 314299 in .308 W is 22.5 gr 300MP vs 21.5 gr 4759. The accuracy is equivalent, but 300 MP doesn't have the bulk. On the plus side, it will meter well.

[rintinglen]

IMR 4198 and 5744 are the two closest that I have found. Reloader 7 also works, but truth to tell, there is nothing that works as a direct replacement conferring all the benefits that 4759 did.

[Digital Dan]

Wish I had a shortage of 4759, but I don't. Growing fond of Blue Dot these days, it covers a lot of ground.

[Green Frog]

Wish I had a shortage of 4759, but I don't. Growing fond of Blue Dot these days, it covers a lot of ground.

Humble brag here? You wouldn't have any trouble generating a "shortage" of 4759 if you really wanted to... lots of folks are trying hard to find it. If you offer it here and don't get any offers, try the forum at ASSRA.com; some of those guys seem to be getting desperate. If I didn't have a lifetime supply, I'd be making an offer myself!

Froggie

[Digital Dan]

Froggie, it isn't for sale and there was no brag intended. It might be used in barter or bribery down the road, who besides The Shadow knows? Apparently I did something bordering on sacrilege when it was announced production was halted. Placed an online order that otherwise would not have occurred. So I have reserves and other weep. Such is life.

I use it for certain applications and find it useful here and there. In my opinion it does better with high load density and is not the best powder for plinking or low velocity loads.

When I'm dead and gone you can have what's left.

[flint45]

I go with IMR 4198 and XMP5744 in place of 4759.

[Green Frog]

Like every powder, now and in the past, 4759 has certain characteristics that make it fit certain niches. In my case, it does exceptionally well for plain base cast bullet target loads in the classic 32-40. It is also "gentle" in the older, soft steel chambers of some of my single shot rifles.

The story I got about its discontinuation was that the cost of production of this particular powder configuration was deemed too high in view of other potential uses of those same powder mills that could have continued making it... in short, it was a bean counting decision. Fortunately for me, I had been buying more than I had been shooting of this powder for several years, and when "the end" came, I had or had access to about 12-15 pounds of it, and at 13.6 gr per round it should last me a loooong time. :cool:

Froggie

[1969shooter]

I'm following this discussion, because like Engieman, I sorry miss the 4759. It was the perfect powder for me. Squib loads, regular loads all shot well. With not having access to all the different powders, this forum is perfect


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I have some sr 4759 powder I would trade for some H4895 if you need some is so my email is eddieearle@yahoo.com

[1969shooter]

Sr4759 sorry

[quilbilly]

RE-7 would be my choice followed by 3031. 5744 and 2400 are better than 3031 but can be very difficult to find.

[Green Frog]

Interesting to see this thread rise from the dead once again... I kinda wish the powder would do the same. There had been “announcements” that it would be discontinued for at least 10-15 years before its final termination, in fact it had experienced what proved to be merely a temporary suspension of production at least a decade earlier, so it had a reputation for resurrection. Unfortunately, this time it seems to be permanent. :-(

One powder that may bear mention here is 4227. The only fixed ammo (reloads) I ever saw shoot with the accuracy of my best 4759 loads was built on slightly heavier charges of 4227. I made a commitment to my own shooting plans to provide 4759 for my foreseeable shooting “career” with the 32-40. It just did everything better than all of its competition. OTOH, if I were to lose all of my 4759 in “a tragic boating accident” I believe I would look to 4227 to replace it. That would still be familiar territory for me. 8-)

Froggie

[Rich/WIS]

Used it in my old M70 Win 30/06. Rifle is gone and use either Red Dot or Blue Dot now for my Rem A3 and my Win M70 243 or Ruger #3 in 30/40. Still have a can and a half of 4759 that just sits in my powder magazine. I'm in SE KY just off of I-75 about midway between Lexington KY and Knoxville TN, anyone who needs it and is coming through can have it cheap ($25).

[Shiloh]

IMR 4227 has worked well. A tad slower.

Shiloh

[Freischütz]

4198. 5744. and Lovex D060 (Shooters World Buffalo Rifle) all work well for me.

[PositiveCaster]

How about actual data. From the 1990 DuPont Handloader’s Guide for the .300 Savage (the OP’s cartridge) with 150-grain jacketed bullet:

*SR 4759 - 23.5 grains - 2095 fps - 45,500 CUP*

IMR 4227 - 24.0 grains - 2105 fps - 44,800 CUP

IMR 4198 - 30.0 grains - 2365 fps - 44,100 CUP

IMR 3031 - 38.5 grains - 2575 fps - 44,500 CUP

With this particular combination, SR 4759 and IMR 4227 have almost identical burn rates but with different bulk densities. In another cartridge or bullet type they may, or may not, be different.


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[Green Frog]

My pet load for the 32-40 is just over half as much as your 300 Savage... while proportionally my 4227 load is more like 2/3 as much. I don't know how significant that is, but there you go! I know my 32-40 load when fired breech seated is sufficiently low in pressure to leave a bit of unburned powder in the bore.

Froggie

[waco]

Still have around 1 1/2 8 pounders of SR4759

[murf205]

4198. 5744. and Lovex D060 (Shooters World Buffalo Rifle) all work well for me.

I have read where Buffalo Rifle, by Lovex, is a direct replacement for 5744. This come from people who have loaded both. I have some 45/70's loaded with it and if it will ever get out of the mid 90 degree range here I am going to clock it in my Marlin.

[Yooper003]

That is the way I am loading it & working out very well.

[charlie b]

For plinker loads I usually start here:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

For my .308 I started with the .30-30 data and it turned out pretty close. I use Blue Dot since I had a bunch of it not being used for anything else.

There is also this article:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

[DonHowe]

My pet load for the 32-40 is just over half as much as your 300 Savage... while proportionally my 4227 load is more like 2/3 as much. I don't know how significant that is, but there you go! I know my 32-40 load when fired breech seated is sufficiently low in pressure to leave a bit of unburned powder in the bore.

Froggie
IMHO, 4227 was made just for the combo of 14.5 grains behind a brreechseated .32 caliber 200 grain plain base bullet.
This combo is capable of better 200 HD accuracy than most .32-40 barrels or shooters.

[Green Frog]

Hi Don, good to hear from you again! I got some fixed rounds in 32-40 with about that load of 4227 behind a 200 grain bullet cut by Bud Welch. They were just about the most accurate fixed rounds I’ve ever shot from a 32-40. Good to know a similar formula will be promising for breech seating as well.

Regards,
Froggie