seating cast bullets

[maliveline]

so here is my issue. I dont like to bell the case mouth it weakens the brass and its a pain in the butt in my opinion. So what I do is I just hold the bullet up there with my fingers and line it up as best as possible then slide it into the seater die and seat the bullet. This process has always worked pretty good for me with jacketed bullets aside from a few copper shavings here and there the bullet always seems to seat nice and pretty. This is not so with cast bullets. I tried chamfering the case mouth with my deburring tool and my bullet sits down in there pretty good but when I go to seat the bullet it is almost always slightly canted. you can see a slight bulge in the brass case on one side and the bullet is just off center. its probably only off center by less than .020 inches and it doesn't really effect accuracy but it still bugs the **** out of me. in the past I have made like a dummy round with a jacketed bullet that has an extra long OAL and I press it into my cases that i'm about to reload just enough to where i can still pull it out by hand to kind of loosen up the case a little bit and this really helps with seating sometimes its almost like a half *** bell of the case without really bending the brass case mouth. at any rate I would like to hear any and all comments on what other people do to tackle this problem or if they even have a problems. Hobbies are the one thing I hate doing half *** so I would like to hear if there is a good solution for this.

[waco]

A good solution is bell the case mouth. Your loading cast Boolits. It's one of the NECESSARY steps to produce good accurate ammo.

[rancher1913]

Now you understand why there is a market for used brass, and why everybody wants once fired, it wears out when you reload. if you figure it out let us know

[psweigle]

I think the answer is to bell the case just enough that the cast boolit goes in strait. I have some 9mm and 38's that I KNOW I've loaded better than 10 times. Not all brass will, but some can last a lifetime.

[Grmps]

Beveling the inside of the case heavy helps some also

[Bzcraig]

A good solution is bell the case mouth. Your loading cast Boolits. It's one of the NECESSARY steps to produce good accurate ammo.


Now you understand why there is a market for used brass, and why everybody wants once fired, it wears out when you reload. if you figure it out let us know


I think the answer is to bell the case just enough that the cast boolit goes in strait. I have some 9mm and 38's that I KNOW I've loaded better than 10 times. Not all brass will, but some can last a lifetime.

There ya go......

[DocSavage]

You're only going to either crush your brass or shave lead off your bullet if you don't flare your cases. I've never had a semi auto case or a rifle case split from repeated flaring.

[MOA]

It's a tuff situation that is always encountered with cast boolits. Case mouth tension is needed and any extra stretching of brass is something we all try to discourage for lots of reasons, but, no need to worry too much, it is all part of the procedure. Bullet profile can make a difference at times, such as those with a beveled base, but it is hard to get around having to stretch the case mouth a bit. This is what I use for this issue.

https://s19.postimg.org/498m079j7/Lyman_M_dies.png (https://postimg.org/image/spqruoa9r/)

[runfiverun]

there s the issue of neck tension to overcome.
when you shove a copper wrapped chunk of lead into the case you do so with about .002 neck tension. [and a bhn of around 50]

now when you shove a 12 bhn piece of lead into .004 worth of neck tension your twisting and bending everything including that brass.
it shoving over to the side like that is indicating a weak spot in the brass neck and is where the split will occur.

using less neck tension [or opening the case straight] and putting a slight bell on the case mouth isn't going to shorten the case life as much as the extra stress your putting on it the other ways.

[Hick]

I was also concerned about working the brass too much by belling the mouths, but I finally concluded it was necessary. I bell as little as possible, but enough to give the cast bullet a good start. My 32 Winchester Special cases have 15 reloads like this with no problems, and my 30-30 cases are at 11 reloads, also with no problem. My conclusion is that its not as big a problem as I thought it would be.

[BK7saum]

I use a stepped expander (M-die).

I usually size cast boolits 0.002" over jacketed diameter. I like my stepped expander to be 0.001" less than boolit diameter and the larger step about 0.002-0.003 over boolit diameter.

Brass is not overworked and the step allows the boolit to seat straight every time. The brass doesn't size down or swage my soft lead boolits. BHN 10-12. And case length is not critical as with a Belling die that overworks the case mouth when a long case is belled.

[kungfustyle]

I have some Mossin Brass that I've reloaded about 20 times, PPU to be exact. Anneal the brass, use a Lyman or NOE "M" die or just flare it enough to get the boolit seated with a Lee universal flare die, but flare the brass. All pistol brass needs to be flared. It is a nessasary step to the reloading cast boolits process.

[soldierbilly1]

For the 9 and the 38, I use a Lee flare die. Cheap enough, you can adjust to your hearts content and really see right away how much is enough.
Mr. Waco nailed it, please bell the case.
bill boy

[gwpercle]

Yes , there are some excellent solutions. Unfortunately they all include some form of belling or neck expansion. The reason is cast lead is relatively soft, the brass case is harder so in the seating process the boolit takes the beating . Here are the only solutions I know of:
1.) Bell the case mouth with your reloading dies, carefully adjusted just enough to get them started straight with no shaving .
2.) Lee Universal Case Flaring Tool with a NOE M-type expanding plug.
3.) Lyman M-Die for the round being reloaded.
Sometimes seating and crimping in separate steps helps. Cast boolits do not straighten themselves out , crooked in = crooked out.
Options #2 and #3 are the best way to seat cast , they prevent the brass case from sizing down the boolit when it is seated, undersized boolits cause their own problems . But #1 can be made work most times ...depending on the dies expander plug. The problem is most standard dies are set up for the harder, slightly smaller , jacketed bullets....That's why option's #2 and #3 were developed .
My personal experience has shown I like Option #2 the best, even without the NOE stepped expander plug the Universal Expanding Die is quite useful and one of Lee's good idea's .
Gary

[osteodoc08]

Brass is expendable. It stretches every time we fire it. Make a slight bell on the case just enough to start to boolit and quit worrying. Brass wears and splits. That's what happens. It's the joy of shooting and the cost of the hobby to keep myself sane.

[williamwaco]

I have 38s I bought used around 1970. They have been reloaded around 50 times. I have around 500 left out of the original 1000. Each time I fire them, I lose 4 or 5. Say 1%. In every case the case body splits lengthwise. Never at the mouth. I have lost more cases to crushing while seating tilted bullets in unflared cases.

If, indeed, you are experiencing split necks., you are flaring too much.

I really like that lyman two stem "M" die for bottle neck rifle brass but it is too aggressive for straight wall handgun cases.

Another very effective solution is bevel base bullets but they are really messy to use in a lubrisizer.

[Texas by God]

You have to bell them. Like Williamwaco I have .38 & .45acp brass from decades ago that are still chugging along. If you have Lee PTE handgun dies, they can be adjusted to flare rifle brass of like caliber. When I first loaded cast in rifle calibers; my flaring tool was a .50 BMG cartridge they I just pushed the bullet tip into the neck to get the flare I needed. I haven't needed an M die yet but I understand why they exist. If you don't like half ****- get the M die(s) and flare that brass- you won't hurt it!

[Calamity Jake]

I used the Lyman "M" die for years, even made some custom sizes for over size bores.
I shoot ott 6 most of the time.
I have went to a Redding bushing neck die for all cast loading in the ott 6, 308 and a couple of others.
To find the proper size bushing I seat a boolit of the proper size in a sized case then check neck
OD with a mic, not calipers, then subtract .002 from that size to get bushing size.
Get a 60° inclusive angle countersink/deburr tool to chamfer case mouths, that's 30° per side.
After using any chamfer tool no mater the angle there is a small burr at the bottom of the
chamfer, I remove that burr with an X Acto knife.
The combination of the 60° chamfer and .002 neck tension works very well for me YMMV.

[mozeppa]

use the "M" die.

you can't do any better.

[Drifty4]

I took an old die and with a drill and a file I made a expander die for my .223 out of a grade 8 bolt. I flare it just enough to set the base into the mouth. You can hardly feel it on the outside of the case. I have been using these cases for years and have had no problem with them wearing out.

[MSD MIke]

Chamfering or beveling the case mouth actually removes material. I would think that could weaken the case and it's kind of a hassle as well. I bought out a guys reloading stuff in the late 80's. Along with it came an ammo can full of 38 special brass and one full of 45 ACP brass. He said the brass was used many times when he got it, he reloaded with it for years and I have also reloaded with it for years. Most of my reloading has been with lead bullets and and all of it has been belling the case mouth. Every great once in awhile a case mouth splits and you toss the case. Belling the case mouth is standard procedure and will make your lif easier.


Mike

[shoot-n-lead]

Really...

OP...sorry man, but this ain't rocket science.

[greenjoytj]

Are you sure your not over expanding the case mouth with your expander die?
I ask this because the first time I handloaded using a Lyman M die expander I didn't know how much of the expanded tip to insert into the case. I examined the expander plug and saw the expanding steps (3 if you count the main plug dia.). It looked like a no brainer to me, the pictures in the instructions showed 3 points (sizes) of expansion. So my first case got way over expanded, it wouldn't fit into the bullet seating die. I re-sized it and tried again with the expander plug back way out. This time I slowly advanced the expander plug 1/4 turn testing the bullet fit after each advancement.
I decided to stop an tighten the plug locking ring when I could see about 1/3 of the bullet wide base band sink below the case mouth. This level of expansion made the bullet very easy to install straight and made it stable during its upward journey into the bullet seating die.
Not all my bullets need this much case expansion, I now adjust the die according to the bullet being seated to get the minimum amount of case expansion to hold the bullet straight.