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Bret4207
11-13-2005, 08:41 AM
Latest issue of Handloader came to day. I noticed a pull out tab for a CD of all the back issues. I focused my tired eyes on this since one of my goals is a complete collection of Handloader and Rifle. I've always shied away from the $250.-300.00 asking price. I thought this might be my answer since it's the articles I want, not a "collection". Good old Wolfe Publishing is willing to let a copy of their 11 cent CD go for a mere $400.00!!!! And the best part- IT'S THE DISCOUNT PRICE!!!!!!!!!!!! They intend to charge $800.00 for 2 CD's that are scanned copies of their back issues. I will refrain from repeating the obscenities which ushered from my lips. That is sheer robbery! These guys jsut keep pushing me to anger. The only saving point is that this issue of Handloader is better than the last one, but nowhere near as good as the older ones under Ken Howells editorship.

imashooter2
11-13-2005, 09:13 AM
Damned capitalists! They should be selling that stuff at cost for the good of the masses.

Buckshot
11-13-2005, 10:02 AM
...........That does seem pretty steep for a broad interest magazine. I have fairly eclectic likes and a firend who had every Handloader and Rifle mag from day one let me take them a few at a time to work to copy articles from. Some issues had nothing I was interested in. Others had one or two. I did fill 3-4 notebooks with copied articles, and I grant that most was interesting reading at least once, but not going back to over and over.

I would have thought that maybe $3-$350 for the set.

............Buckshot

PatMarlin
11-13-2005, 10:26 AM
HA!

You can get over 20 years of every article on CD from Mother Earth News for $40.

$20 for the first 10 years, and $20 for the second, and the quality is very good too... :roll:

No_1
11-13-2005, 12:07 PM
HA!

You can get over 20 years of every article on CD from Mother Earth News for $40.

$20 for the first 10 years, and $20 for the second, and the quality is very good too... :roll:

20 years of Handloading on cd from mother earth news? How did you find that on their site? I am still looking with no luck. Give help please.

Robert

PatMarlin
11-13-2005, 12:17 PM
-uh if you're not joking I'll explain...

The Mother Earth was just a comparison as to what they charge for a CD library for "their" magazine, not Handloader.

If you are joking about my writing being not very clear, then well I understand completely... :mrgreen:

felix
11-13-2005, 01:08 PM
Does somebody want my Handloader Magazines and Precision Shooting magazines? Since 1975 or so, most if not all copies are there. If so, what can you do for me? I just don't go to them much any more, and Pat says I HAVE TO CLEAN UP THAT ROOM! ... felix

No_1
11-13-2005, 02:05 PM
Dangit!
I thought you were serious. I would love too have all those articles on a cd but not for the price they want. I guess I mis-understood what you were saying.

Robert



-uh if you're not joking I'll explain...

The Mother Earth was just a comparison as to what they charge for a CD library for "their" magazine, not Handloader.

If you are joking about my writing being not very clear, then well I understand completely... :mrgreen:

45 2.1
11-13-2005, 02:07 PM
Does somebody want my Handloader Magazines and Precision Shooting magazines? Since 1975 or so, most if not all copies are there. If so, what can you do for me? I just don't go to them much any more, and Pat says I HAVE TO CLEAN UP THAT ROOM! ... felix

What do you want?

trooperdan
11-13-2005, 03:19 PM
Too late for Felix's magazines! always a day late and a dollar short!

Bret4207
11-13-2005, 09:01 PM
That may be a fine example of capitalism, but I have the choice of not buying or thinking highly of the price considering the work involved in scanning a magazine. Oh well. Ebay still has the occasional deal.

imashooter2
11-13-2005, 10:28 PM
That may be a fine example of capitalism, but I have the choice of not buying or thinking highly of the price considering the work involved in scanning a magazine. Oh well. Ebay still has the occasional deal.

That's how it works. If they are over priced, they will choke on their inventory till they decide to sell lower. If they can't make a product that fits the price point of the market they will go out of business.

Of course, they may know what their stuff costs and what they can get for it too...

Either way, it's no reason to be hatin'!

redneckdan
11-14-2005, 04:35 PM
I have access to a high resolution scanner. If ya'll want to make our own collection of reloading articles, send me data, I'll scan it, compile it and burn it to CDs at cost (postage and the 11 cent CD) . later.

Frank46
11-15-2005, 04:17 AM
Trp.Bret, Its a shame but when handloader and its sister magazine came out they were
really good publications. I used to have a local gunshop save copies every month. Now
I go to barnes and noble and check it out. If there is something of interest then I'll buy it. If not then I pass. In the past (years ago) they always had some how-to article
on gunsmithing or working of rifles. But over the years have gone towards the mass market approach. And while I'm on my soapbox you can say the same about gun digest. Think the 05' edition will be the last one I'll buy. The quality has gone downhill so bad its not funny. Maybe Krause publications needs to see some of the other comments made here about gun digest. But I seriously doubt that it will do any good.
I know I spent many a night working the graveyard shift at work photocopying articles
outta rifle and handloader magazines. Same for the old editions of the american rifleman. Sorry for the rant. Frank

Leadmine
12-09-2005, 09:10 AM
Years ago, I developed load data for an obsolete cartridge. I developed a case conversion method to use existing available brass. I was very excited when it all worked well. I called Handloader and asked if they would be interested in an article on it. They said they needed to see a manuscript. So I wrote up a nice article and sent them a manuscrpit. Scoville wrote me back that they wouldn't except it, since they didn't use freelance writers (so why did they ask for the manuscript???) Interestingly enough, 2 issues later, an article appeared about the same cartridge, using the same case conversion, with most of the load data that I had worked up "written" by one of their editors.

Due to an ethics problem with the staff at handloader, I won't even look at their publication(s) anymore.

Bret4207
12-09-2005, 12:55 PM
Leadmine- That sounds like some sort of copy right infringment deal to me. Hate to ask, but have you talked to a lawyer about it?

Where is "upstate NY"?

Cayoot
12-09-2005, 01:07 PM
Years ago, I developed load data for an obsolete cartridge. I developed a case conversion method to use existing available brass. I was very excited when it all worked well. I called Handloader and asked if they would be interested in an article on it. They said they needed to see a manuscript. So I wrote up a nice article and sent them a manuscrpit. Scoville wrote me back that they wouldn't except it, since they didn't use freelance writers (so why did they ask for the manuscript???) Interestingly enough, 2 issues later, an article appeared about the same cartridge, using the same case conversion, with most of the load data that I had worked up "written" by one of their editors.

Due to an ethics problem with the staff at handloader, I won't even look at their publication(s) anymore.

I would have persued legal action. That is a ploy that is highly frowned upon by the courts.

Leadmine
12-09-2005, 03:54 PM
This happened almost 15 years ago. I wasn't trying to make any money, just having fun and looking to share my findings with other folks that have the same interest. I did another article for a magazine and got paid $40. The worst part of the Handloader ordeal was seeing someone else taking credit for work that sure didn't seem to be theirs.

Oh well, the internet has certainly changed things. Places like Castboolit forums are great. People can share good information and the folks are decent about it. It is hard to take credit for something, because it is so easy to find the information with the technology we have

donald duck
04-12-2012, 11:36 PM
The comments about Handloader were interesting. I wrote them about an article I would have submitted about reduced loads, but they told me they only have articles by their writers. I once wrote to the gun editor of North American Hunter and told him my experience with the Thompson Contender and two different frames. Sure enough it wasn't long until the article appeared in NAH.
The writer was Hal Swigget. Don't know if he is still living or not but at least I can claim credit for giving him an idea about an article. dd

Kevin Rohrer
04-13-2012, 01:23 PM
The comments about Handloader were interesting. I wrote them about an article I would have submitted about reduced loads, but they told me they only have articles by their writers.


No wonder why the quality of the mag has fallen so incredibly far from where it once was.

Anyone who wants to read informatve articles on reloading should subscribe to Varminthunter Magazine.

redneckdan
04-13-2012, 03:37 PM
Honestly, I get more out of reading here then Handloader. I had a year of print and a year of online subscriptions. I have found some useful stuff, mostly from Pearce and Venturino. It is a shame they don't accept articles from non-staff. I believe there would be much more interest from the hand loading community if such a thing was allowed.

square butte
04-13-2012, 04:13 PM
Think of it this way Bret - How much is that extra space in the house or barn worth to you? Sometimes I get to thinkin it might be worth it. But then the New Englander thing takes over and I just cant see parting with the money - or the old magazines. When we lived in Missoula we used to walk by a house that had every widow stacked top to bottom with magazines. Couldn't see in or out. One tiney space was left - But that's where the cat sat. My worst nightmare come true

gwpercle
04-13-2012, 07:51 PM
I bet I have learned more from this site in just a few months than in all the years I have subscribed to handloader , and you guys have never charged for any advice , instuctions , how to info, problem solving or amusing stories and tall tales. And when word gets around how they treat people they just mght find thier subscriptions dropping. I'm seriously considering not renewing my subscription, that $ 400.00 cd offer was an insult to long time subscribers and I dont need them any more.

I also want to sincerely thank everyone involved with making this site happen I for one appreciate your work and I appreciate all the good information
THANK YOU ! gary

Circuit Rider
04-14-2012, 06:40 AM
Mother Earth is cheap because there hasn't been anything worth reading for the last 20 years. Far as I'm concerned they are just a bunch of leftys. Backwoods Home has more useful info in one issue than ME in a year, IMO. CR

tenx
04-14-2012, 06:45 AM
Very little compares to Capatilist GREED, but I have noticed the longer and more I shoot/reload/cast/swage (30+ years) the lesser the appeal that magazine articles have, I mean, how many times can you rehash the same general stuff over and over and make it interesting? Besides my money dosen't come easy and I don't really want to give any of it away>

MtGun44
04-14-2012, 10:33 AM
The problem with the popular magazines is that there are 100 new guys that don't know much
for every one of the older guys (like the majority here) that have been doing this hobby for
20-50 or more years.

Don't be surprised if they rerun the same basic stories every few years. Think about a school,
every single year they teach the exact same courses - to new students.

This site is the postgraduate seminar for folks with PhDs in boolits and reloading. Expecting
any popular magazine to match it is a vain hope.

I get the gun mags to find out about the new toys and that is pretty much it.

I don't like the high prices for the DVDs but the only difference in the old days is that the
physical publishing costs are low now. The value of the information is still high. I would think that
they would sell 50X as many if they dropped the price, but maybe not.

Bill

RayinNH
04-14-2012, 01:57 PM
I bet I have learned more from this site in just a few months than in all the years I have subscribed to handloader , and you guys have never charged for any advice , instuctions , how to info, problem solving or amusing stories and tall tales. THANK YOU ! gary

You must have been overlook in the last billing cycle, wait 'til next quarter.:mrgreen:...Ray

Arceagle
04-14-2012, 02:07 PM
This forum is much better than a magazine anyway. Can't ask a magazine a question and get 20 replys in a day. Now if we just had the pretty girls from the ads.:bigsmyl2:

Hardcast416taylor
04-14-2012, 03:18 PM
I still subscribe to Handloader and Rifle magazines, no other mags other than Rifleman see the inside of my backdoor. Of late, last few years, I`ve noticed a decline in the articles in all 3 mags. I usually look for Mike V. articles, but his articles aren`t always interesting for me to read. Not sure how much longer I`ll be taking those 2 mags for what they want a year for a subscription for articles I don`t read and then just toss the mag in a big box of past issues to someday either sell or have a big bonfire.Robert

nanuk
04-14-2012, 05:20 PM
Holy Old Thread Batman


the quality of the Gun Rags have gone way down hill lately for me.

Most are a rehash of a rehash, trying to put a different perspective on it, but fail.
Like the 270Win vs the 270WSM debacle....

Some just seem to be infomercials. I have in the past accused Mike V. of that very thing.

I tend to only read Scoville and Barsness now.

but I do have to say the Arrogance of Scoville is disappointing. I once pointed out that a picture, in an article about Sask hunting, showed the big Saskatchewan "Whitetail" buck was actually more of a Mule Deer.
Dave's response was that it had Whitetail horns, so it was actually a cross breed.
I then pointed out to him that Cross Breed Deer are protected up here, and they should make a correction or comment on that. Also, I suggested that his writers learn the rules of the areas they hunt in, and if guided, they should look at more reputable guides.
after NO response to that, I forwarded the info to our Dept of Nat Resources. if he wants to be a smug arsehole, so can I.

alamogunr
04-14-2012, 10:04 PM
I have to admit to being a packrat when it comes to books and magazines. I have all the Handloader issues. There are a couple of other magazines(non-gun) that I have a complete collection. I also subscribe to Precision Shooting. I'm not into benchrest but I like the articles and the "Last Post" series about historical figures. The problem is the cost, while it hasn't gone up in a few years is still pretty high. On a fixed income, I have to evaluate what I'm getting out of it.

Every 2-3 years I'll succumb to one of the general appeal gun magazines for $9.95 per year and then regret it after about 3-4 issues.

I've been tempted by some of the periodicals that are coming out on DVD, but I still prefer paper to reading on a screen. I hope magazine publishing continues at least for those I want to read. I would not like to be forced to get my fix on a computer screen. I miss too much here.

P.K.
04-15-2012, 08:13 AM
Trp.Bret, Its a shame but when handloader and its sister magazine came out they were
really good publications. I used to have a local gunshop save copies every month. Now
I go to barnes and noble and check it out. If there is something of interest then I'll buy it. If not then I pass. In the past (years ago) they always had some how-to article
on gunsmithing or working of rifles. But over the years have gone towards the mass market approach. And while I'm on my soapbox you can say the same about gun digest. Think the 05' edition will be the last one I'll buy. The quality has gone downhill so bad its not funny. Maybe Krause publications needs to see some of the other comments made here about gun digest. But I seriously doubt that it will do any good.
I know I spent many a night working the graveyard shift at work photocopying articles
outta rifle and handloader magazines. Same for the old editions of the american rifleman. Sorry for the rant. Frank

I'm with Frank on his POV concerning Handloader. As for AR, it's turned into "throne material" and usefull for passing time only. Unless there is an article of paticular intrest I'll pass on both. The one magazine I'll buy with out scanning the contents first is the Backwoodsman. Without fail I will find at least one thing in every issue I had either forgotten or can use in the future and it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg to accuire the subject material.

http://www.backwoodsmanmag.com/

BeemerMark
04-15-2012, 08:24 AM
I've dropped the hardcopy of Handloader and just get the online pdf copy. Allows me to save any articles that interest me (which are getting fewer and fewer).

I've dropped all my other subscriptions, but they still keep coming. They make money on the number of subsribers / advertisers.

hunter64
04-15-2012, 10:04 AM
The problem with the popular magazines is that there are 100 new guys that don't know much
for every one of the older guys (like the majority here) that have been doing this hobby for
20-50 or more years.

Don't be surprised if they rerun the same basic stories every few years. Think about a school,
every single year they teach the exact same courses - to new students.

This site is the postgraduate seminar for folks with PhDs in boolits and reloading. Expecting
any popular magazine to match it is a vain hope.

I get the gun mags to find out about the new toys and that is pretty much it.

I don't like the high prices for the DVDs but the only difference in the old days is that the
physical publishing costs are low now. The value of the information is still high. I would think that
they would sell 50X as many if they dropped the price, but maybe not.

Bill

I couldn't agree more. I stopped subscribing to Handloader about 5 years ago and when ever I am in the local supermarket that carries the magazine I stop and see what they have for the current issue. In most instances there is nothing new or anything interesting to me.

About a year ago Handloader had a "How to make hollow point lead bullets" article. I thought lets see what the writers come up with so I bought the magazine and when I read it I was very disappointed. The new "theory" and vast "testing" was nothing more than what we already knew on this site from various different members. No credit was given to the site and it was more of a "look what my testing and idea's have come up with" ****.

I have read and re-read Ken Waters books and most are still relevant even today other than there has been some new powders that have come on the market since the 70-80's. Other than that I just still stop by the store and look to see if there is anything new and honestly I have bought maybe 5 magazines in the last 4-5 years.

Dave C.
04-15-2012, 11:02 AM
Am I the only one that hates when the writer states
that the new super blaster shoots 2" groups but never states
at what distance!

Dave C.

canyon-ghost
04-15-2012, 11:21 AM
Years ago, I developed load data for an obsolete cartridge. I developed a case conversion method to use existing available brass. I was very excited when it all worked well. I called Handloader and asked if they would be interested in an article on it. They said they needed to see a manuscript. So I wrote up a nice article and sent them a manuscrpit. Scoville wrote me back that they wouldn't except it, since they didn't use freelance writers (so why did they ask for the manuscript???) Interestingly enough, 2 issues later, an article appeared about the same cartridge, using the same case conversion, with most of the load data that I had worked up "written" by one of their editors.

Due to an ethics problem with the staff at handloader, I won't even look at their publication(s) anymore.


That seems to happen a lot, some guy advancing his career and house payments swipes your work and, if you're like me, you end up the sucker that gave him all the information. Never ceases to amaze me what people will take, knowing that they can never match it again, on their own. :shock:

SuperBlackhawk
04-15-2012, 08:52 PM
I agree with imashooter2. I would also like to think that Wolfe publishing's information is so valuable that the CD is worth the $400 price.
In my profession, I would go out on a job and ,after it is done about a month later, I give them a $10.00 memory stick and they get a bill for around $25,000. (I don't make that much. Most of it goes to my employer) However, all of the value is there in how that program controls their press, sorter, finger jointer, lathe or whatever the machine does for them.

Bret4207
04-16-2012, 07:36 AM
For those that missed it, this thread is 7 years old!

Kevin Rohrer
04-16-2012, 12:20 PM
Both mags need new editors and editorial policies. I get tired of seeing the same writers recycling their own writing. And I especially am tired of seeing Brian "what's his name" writing decent large bore pistol articles but filling space with pictures of him kneeling beside an animal someone killed. Some of his articles had several of them at one time.

And what are gun reviews doing in reloading magazines, while Rifle mag has handgun reviews? The editors must be drunk most of the time. If they are sober and complain about the lack of printable content, maybe they should consider accepting independent articles; and goto Varmint Hunter SOF for some of their reloading articles to edit and re-publish. In other words, Mr. Handloader and Rifle Managing Editor: start doing yor job!

Idaho Sharpshooter
04-16-2012, 01:35 PM
I've known Brian Pearce since he was in high school. He lives about twenty miles west of me on the family ranch. About all he does is cast bullets, load ammunition, and shoot/hunt.
SW Idaho, not NYC. Think miles, not quarter-acre lots per house.

Kevin,

good bit of character assassination by insinuation: "him kneeling beside an animal someone killed..."

This thread is seven years old. Both magazines are still going strong, copy print run is nearly double from 2005, and we're all seven years older. And, it appears that you still don't have a complete set. Worse, nobody much cares.

If something is too much $$$ for you four, don't buy it. Stop W-H-I-N--I-N-G about it.

Several years ago I wanted a used Jaguar XK-8 convertible the local dealership had. I mentioned to the salesman that they were pretty expensive. His answer "they aren't for everyone. If it's too much $$$ for you, don't buy it."

Life is all about having faith in God, and doing the best you can with what you have to do with.

Besides, every year the CD set becomes more incomplete. Just make a database, and every issue make a note of each article and place it in the appropriate file.

In two weeks, I will be back in South Africa hunting. Ten grand, I had to sell two rifles to finance the trip and cover expected taxidermy/shipping costs. My last trip was two years ago. I think it is unfair that those people charge so much that I can only afford to go every two years...

regards,

Rich

Lance Boyle
04-16-2012, 11:25 PM
Very little compares to Capatilist GREED, but I have noticed the longer and more I shoot/reload/cast/swage (30+ years) the lesser the appeal that magazine articles have, I mean, how many times can you rehash the same general stuff over and over and make it interesting? Besides my money dosen't come easy and I don't really want to give any of it away>



I can agree with this. The only thing that is new is the cartridge flavor of the month that does exactly what some 1930's cartridge did 80 years ago.

I saw this with the outdoor mags I grew up with, Sports Afield, Field and Stream, Outdoor Life. Once I got out of high school I noticed they were generally on a 2 year cycle with rehashing old stuff, toss in some new pics and go to print. Even the covers looked repeated, I once grabbed a November issue and one 4 years later thinking they were the same picture, nope different black bears but same pose. Talk about unoriginal. Those outdoor mags of yore were pretty good in the 70's and early 80's and quickly turned to rubbish in the mid 80's. Turned into yuppie SUV advertisements. Gunrags followed them south.

Then again, I got older and the articles didn't tell me much I hadn't already heard once or learned on my own. Their utility and interest faded.

jblee10
04-16-2012, 11:31 PM
I like "Handloader" for what it is. But this is a better read.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

Idaho Sharpshooter
04-16-2012, 11:42 PM
That's the issue; there is only so much to write about.

I submitted an article last year to a firearms magazine on how I built my 550 Gibbs Magnum, and the loadwork, etc. It went to Africa and killed three elephants in a matter of 38 seconds. They even told me it was well written, with more good pictures than it needed.

"No interest by the readership..." said the rejection slip.

You all do understand that we represent one-percent of one-percent of the shooting/reloading public, don't you? How many of your non-casting friends care about how much more accurate a cast boolet round will be if it fits the throat instead of the barrel dimensions, or the difference sizing .001" makes?

Once you get to this level, you aren't the audience they want to reach anymore.

Rich

Bret4207
04-17-2012, 07:36 AM
For those that desire some in depth and original work, I suggest going back to the classics- Sharpe, Naramore, Whelen, Haines, Keith, Mattern (definitely Mattern), Mann, Estey, Landis, Roberts, Newton, Crossman, Kephart, Tedmon, Lovell. Guys like that broke the paths for O'Connor, Page, Skelton, etc, and that 2nd set broke trail for todays writers. The books are out there as are the old mags. I could read Roberts, Mattern and Haines all day.

alamogunr
04-17-2012, 08:21 AM
For those that desire some in depth and original work, I suggest going back to the classics- Sharpe, Naramore, Whelen, Haines, Keith, Mattern (definitely Mattern), Mann, Estey, Landis, Roberts, Newton, Crossman, Kephart, Tedmon, Lovell. Guys like that broke the paths for O'Connor, Page, Skelton, etc, and that 2nd set broke trail for todays writers. The books are out there as are the old mags. I could read Roberts, Mattern and Haines all day.

I've been fortunate enough over the years to find books by most mentioned. I'm going to have to look up 2 or 3 that I'm not familiar with(Haines,Estey,Tedmon). I sometimes think I like reading about shooting as much as the shooting itself.

I can't go along with a blanket condemnation of today's writers. There are a few that I look for when I pick up a magazine and I do agree that most are forced to "dumb down" their writing to fit the majority readership.

No publisher is going to notice if all of us decline to purchase their magazine. 1% of 1% doesn't make a very big dent in their sales.

J3Pete
04-17-2012, 09:44 AM
I have my copies of Handloader and Rifle boxed up for the past 20 years or so. I was going to sell them prior to the internet and I put a add in the Handloader. Only had one call from someone who wanted them for resale. I'm pretty sure that I have both magazines, first issues through 1985 (more or less). What I mean, is that the collection is complete. I just don't remember where it ends.

My main complaint was that both the NRA and the editor of these magazines had some sort of confrontation about the direction of the NRA. As I was in the service and deployed, I never figured it out. No one ever explained it to me. I just got tired of NK.

Anyway, If someone is interested in my magazines... I don't really have a price on them, but the shipping will be horrible.

Pete

Kevin Rohrer
04-17-2012, 01:11 PM
Idaho: no character assassination meant; I never said he didn't shoot those animals. And my comments/complaints are legitimate; anyone who doesn't want to read them can skip to the next message; I won't take it personal. [smilie=f:

jellybean
04-17-2012, 01:57 PM
I had subscribed to Handloader several years ago after hearing how great it was. It was a one year deal and I couldn't wait for it to end as it was just as big a waste of paper and ink as any other gun magazine. I don't think I've ever seen anything in one of them that I couldn't find in another book on my handloading shelf. They are only good for one thing and that is product advertisement.

It is funny though that some people think their writers are "ballisticians" or "ballistics experts", they should be required to print where they got their data from.

W.R.Buchanan
04-17-2012, 05:17 PM
Rich: I totally agree with you on the percentage of what we like versus what the "Readership" likes. I personally think that the people who state they know what "the Readership" likes, don't have a clue what anybody likes. I have ran into this with the Jeep mags with respect to my Cummins powered Scrambler. I did however get past this problem and it will apprear in a promenent mag sooner or later.

All that said I think this is a standard rejection answer and means nothing other than "they don't want it",,,, others may want it. I know my personal tastes with regard to this gun hobby and my Jeep hobby are far in excess of the norm. I am building a Jeep from scratch because I can't buy one or modify one to be like I want. I build or modify most of my guns because they aren't like I want when I get them. This is the fun part of these hobby's for me, IE: making mine unique. I don't want to be like everyone else, and I never have been, and believe me this goes all the way back to when I was a baby. Been a double edged sword I've had to learn to live with.

What had to occur for me to become accepted in the Jeep world is to become friends with the magazine guys, which entailed going on runs with them, hobnobbing at shows, around the campfire, and generally making myself known to them and building credibility so they wouldn't just blindly reject my presence or ideas. You have to build credibility so you at least appear to have some idea of what you're talking about. Showing good quality work is one way to achieve this, as people tend to think if your work looks good and works well, then you have some idea of what you speak.

The Mag editors are just like anyone else as far as favoring their friends. This went so far as me getting a verbal confirmation of an upcoming article on my new Jeep by a mag editor over drinks which I have parlayed into a significant amount of sponsor contribution to my project. He essentially endorsed me as being worthy of support by verbally committing to an upcoming article in his Mag. None of them will give you anything written, so you have to sell the project with pictures etc, and the endorsement is just part of the sell. Still if asked he would not deny that he committed to the article. That's the Ace in the hole.

The only way this happended in the first place was to be introduced by friends that were connected to the industry and becoming part of the industry as well (I manufacture a Jeep product that has been received well and has been written about in magazines.)

My Jeep should have been done 3 years ago but the economy pretty much killed that deadline. But the project is still in que! Mainly because I keep in touch.

On the original topic.

I like the mags in question. I get something useful out of every issue. I also read every article whether it is of immediate interest or not. Some issues are better than others, and contain more useful data. There is usually one outstanding issue a year from each mag than has a definative article or several articles that are of interest to me. I set these asside, and read and reread them (IE study them) numerous times. I learn alot from doing this, and this increases my overall interest in the hobby and allows me the material to share with others,,, primarily here! [smilie=p:

These mags have arguably the best group of contributors in the business. I enjoy them.

However this forum has as many or more people in regular attendance that have as much or more knowledge than most all of the gun writers out there. They just don't do it for a living. Consistancy of report and willingness to correct errors in content, understanding or judgement at the drop of a hat is the mark of a knowledgable person. Unwillingness to admit error is the mark of a fool or A&&hole,,, take your pick?

Becoming an"expert" is a dubious distinction, it is like the "Attaboy" game. And we all know how that goes,,, one AWE**** wipes the board clean and we all start over,,, so copping to being an expert not only carrys with it the responsibility of "never being wrong," but also, "what have you done for me lately."

These are pretty big shoes to fill and I personally run from the distiction with regard to most subjects of conversation. I'll cop to "talented amatuer with a limited amount of BS," on some things,,, but the higher level is just too precarious and I don't want to be thought of like that.

Magazines come and go, and experts come and go. It's all based on perception at the moment.

Hopefully our Commander in Chief will be found out to have no useful knowledge on anything that matters and be ousted. Biggest problem with ousting him is he has a lot of knowledge and expertise on BSing the public, and being a "really likeable guy." Really that's all he needs to control the game!:redneck:

Kind of like those magazine editors huh?

Randy

alamogunr
04-17-2012, 09:07 PM
I've mentioned that I subscribe to Precision Shooting. While a lot of the content is slanted toward benchrest shooting, there are a lot of other articles concerning accuracy.

The March issue had an article about a benchrest(?) rifle that was built using a barrel machined from rebar. Amazingly, it shot rather well. I don't think anyone can accuse the magazine of recycling material.

quasi
04-17-2012, 10:53 PM
Idaho Sharpshooter used to write for Precision Shooting?

oldscool
04-18-2012, 02:18 AM
I was just wondering if this thread qualifies as "Bad mouthing"?? Seems like I got a lot of flack a while back by just being unimpressed with a certain press.:bigsmyl2:
Never said the press was overpriced or that I hated the company, but I suppose that was apples to grapes.:veryconfu

Bret4207
04-18-2012, 06:26 AM
I think there's a difference between my griping about the price they wanted for a nickle CD and "badmouthing" a press you thought was somehow not what you thought it would be. I still think the press works fine and the CDs are/were overpriced.

OuchHot!
04-18-2012, 03:11 PM
Those cd's have been incredibly overpriced for some time now. Obviously there is a group willing to pay the price. Generally cd's are not archival, they have a finite lifespan and I just cannot see the price.

Hamish
04-18-2012, 04:58 PM
This forum is much better than a magazine anyway. Can't ask a magazine a question and get 20 replys in a day. Now if we just had the pretty girls from the ads.:bigsmyl2:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=149553:mrgreen:

1hole
04-19-2012, 08:37 PM
"Damned capitalists! They should be selling that stuff at cost for the good of the masses. "

Or perhaps even less than cost, just to spread the wealth around. But, I have a plan that will fix them ... I ain't gonna buy that disc! ;)

Bret4207
04-20-2012, 06:09 AM
I have nothing against them selling a good product and making a decent profit. But this...this screams usury to me.

Curlymaple42
04-20-2012, 06:33 AM
I scored a bunch of issues of American Rifleman magazine from back in the 60's and 70's. Damn that was a great mag back then!! It is fairly worthless now compared... Handloader is so so. I couldn't imagine spending hundreds on an archive.

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk 2

Legion489
04-20-2012, 01:43 PM
Well I posted to this thread once, nice long post and then it came up that I was not allowed to post. Oh well. I have complete sets of Rifle/Handloader from issue one to current and American Rifleman from 1923 to current (OK, missing #2, couple of 1924, some of 1925 and 1926), many, many other gun rags. The old ones (1950s thru 1970s) are often excellent. Some of the "off brands", like GUNS AND HUNTING, were more like what you have now, fluff and promised a lot and eilivered nothing when looked at.

Many of the very old Amer Riflemans are excellent, and some were written by former Army men who didn't have an idea, but were in Africa, Indo-China, etc and got to tell about it. Same with most other mags of the era. Just look at the list of Major, Col., etc., etc. in front of the writers names.

For what it is worth, IMHO, the problem is that everyone is "related" to everyone else. The editor of one rag was the writer for another rag, and his boss is now a writer for another rag, who was editor for a different rag before becoming the editor of a different rag and...it just goes on and on. The writers and editors just go from mag to mag to mag and swap around constantly. No new blood, no new writers, no new ideas and no one wants any of that either. Go read the very old GUN WORLD mags and what you get now to see the difference. Or old G&A, Shooting Times, etc.

Of course all the rags are owned by the same corp too, G&A owns SGN, Shooting Times, etc., etc. and they all look the same after awhile. The few good writers turn into gun whores (Pat Sweeny has written some fluff pieces that made me gag!) but hey, they get a pay check and got to do what the boss whants if they want to keep it.

Lance Boyle
04-25-2012, 10:59 AM
That's the issue; there is only so much to write about.

I submitted an article last year to a firearms magazine on how I built my 550 Gibbs Magnum, and the loadwork, etc. It went to Africa and killed three elephants in a matter of 38 seconds. They even told me it was well written, with more good pictures than it needed.

"No interest by the readership..." said the rejection slip.

You all do understand that we represent one-percent of one-percent of the shooting/reloading public, don't you? How many of your non-casting friends care about how much more accurate a cast boolet round will be if it fits the throat instead of the barrel dimensions, or the difference sizing .001" makes?

Once you get to this level, you aren't the audience they want to reach anymore.

Rich

That's true with most techie hobbies. Quite often there aren't enough sales or interests at the top of the spectrum to make it worth while. Much more profitable to target the entry to average zone with the larger demographic.

I'd guess it holds true for racing as well as scientific writing. At the top there's only so much interest because average joe cannot afford the money or time to play on that level or simply it's above his head and or interest level. Ever read a scientific or medical journal? So dry you want to stop reading after the first sentence or two, you have to have a genuine interest to read on.

Most hunters and shooters I talk to just want to talk about the new cartridge/rifle/bullet/scope on the market and don't care on making their 10 year old off the shelf shoot any better than boxed ammo, they just go buy a new whiz bang gun. Me i find myself devolving not evolving. I went from .308 win to .30-06 and am now working with .30-40 krag. Change is good even going backwards sometimes.

magazine price also reflects total sales;
guns and ammo has a lot more distribution than Precision Handloading and they can keep the price down.

Kevin Rohrer
04-25-2012, 11:26 AM
The problem with Handloader (besides that it has been dumbed down), is that it is getting stale. The mag is the same writers (real and imagined), writing the same articles based on the same material. You can only regurgitate the same material so many times. Accepting outside articles would change that.

I'll state this a second time: if you want good, detailed, eclectic reloading articles, subscribe to Varmint Hunter Magazine. It come out 4 or 6 times a year (can't remember which) and has lots of hard info. When I am researching a new caliber, I goto their back issues first before digging thru Handloader. Varmint Hunter is more likely to have the info, and it will be more in-depth.

dmize
04-25-2012, 01:10 PM
I for one am glad that I read Handloader and used to read Rifle,IF it wasnt for them I would have had no idea that most of todays critters and especially out west have evolved int having armor plating. Heck I read a lot of old magazines where people killed the mighty buffalo with muzzle loaders and even bows,nowdays it seems if a person doesnt have a Super Magnum of at least 3 sumthing and using solid copper or the magic bonded creations,your a fool considering suicide.
Oh and the thing that caused me to stop buying Rifle,was a article by Barnsess on why it was important to buy proper cleaning patches,he wrote the same article in a couple of magazines. Never mention about buying bulk diaper flannel and cutting to fit.
As fo AR does anybody else remember back int the 70's reading articles by Finn Aagard? I remember reading in depth article by him using cast boolits in Africa and pictures of his testing. Those days are long gone.

gabe123
04-25-2012, 05:46 PM
I still remember when I first found out that someone actually published a magazine about reloading. I had walked into Bain and Davis gun shop in San Gabriel and was perusing the rack looking for a book from my favorite writer at the time, George Nonte. I bought the magazine and have been a subscriber ever since. This was in 1979. I keep the subscription so I don't miss out on the introduction of any new must have gadgets.

The guys I really miss are Bob Milek and Ross Seyfried. If there was a book that had all of their published articles in it, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Kevin Rohrer
04-25-2012, 07:56 PM
I've been a reader since issue-1. Add Dean Grennell, Townsend Whelen, Elmer Keith, PO Ackley, and Finn Aagard.

Piedmont
04-26-2012, 02:10 AM
As fo AR does anybody else remember back int the 70's reading articles by Finn Aagard? I remember reading in depth article by him using cast boolits in Africa and pictures of his testing. Those days are long gone.

This is what I hate about the internet. I read more fecal material about what Keith, Cooper, Skeeter, Whelan did and wrote than I can stand. The worst part is all the guys perhaps accepting as fact what some annonymous guy at a computer writes.

No, I don't remember Finn Aagard using cast bullets in Africa and it being written up in the AR. I DO remember George Martin doing that.

A couple of weeks ago on here one of our sages (laughs) mentioned a little-known fact that Elmer Keith actually used harder bullets than most think. Yeah, 1-16 which is softer than air cooled clip-on wheel weights . Strike up another one for revisionist history. Of course the sage likes hard bullets so he just makes Elmer agree with HIM.

W.R.Buchanan
04-28-2012, 11:58 PM
The new issue of Handloader just came on Thursday. It has an article on bullet hardness by John Haviland. It contained not one iota of useful info with the possible exception of using Johnsons paste wax for lube. He used the same 3 Keith moulds we all have, and did nothing different and in fact missed many of the common techniques we commonly do here.

This article is from a guy who actually knows what he is talking about to a certain extent. However in this case he is outside his area of expertise. It is also written on a third grade level, and not for the more informed reader.

There is more info on bullet hardness, fit and all things related in one or two threads on this forum. The article was pure "gurg! "

If Brian Pearce had written the article it probably would have been of some use. However he has covered this subject in several issues in the past so they have someone else do the article.

I showed him one of my Mihec 44's with the pent HP when at the SHOT Show he was genuinely impressed. He had heard of Mihec but never seen any of his moulds, I gave him the website. Why they haven't done a article on the mould makers associated with this site is beyond me. Venturino did and article on
Custom Moulds a while back but none of them were from anyone we use, and all of them save one could be bought from Midway USA! NO brass either, such a pity!

Have you guys noticed, they haven't done an article on the Ruger Gunsite Carbine yet? Everyone else has. The editor lives very close to Gunsite,,, if I was him I'd be there once a week keeping up with whats actually happening.

AS stated above Same writers over and over and all of them write for other mags as well, which you would pretty much have to do to make a living. But,,, at the end of the day,,, no new blood equals death, and that's a fact!

Randy

Piedmont
04-29-2012, 02:03 AM
I was looking for an article from a year ago that Mike Venturino did on loading for three pocket pistols, a .32 ACP FN, a .380 Walther, and a PA-63 Hungarian in 9x18 Mak. Plenty of cast bullet loads, but he didn't slug a single barrel and gave us his old saw about using Linotype because it feeds well. (Actually he just has a big stash of it and uses two alloys for his casting.)

So in general it was pretty disappointing. The frustrating part is he knows better and could have produced better work that might teach some of his readers how to go about loading cast for a new pistol.

Kevin Rohrer
04-29-2012, 11:19 AM
Have you guys noticed, they haven't done an article on the Ruger Gunsite Carbine yet?

Weapon reviews have no business in this magazine. But loading for carbines does.

Did Rifle ever do one? Am guessing Wolf purposely ignores Gunsite.

DVC

W.R.Buchanan
04-30-2012, 02:22 PM
Kevin: I agree with not having weapons reviews in that magazine but we both know they do it from time to time.

Also I was actually referring to the fact that they haven't done one in Rifle either as the 2 mags are comnnected at the hip so to speak.

Brian Pearce told me that the article had been assigned to someone but he didn't know who. That was last Feb.

I would love to submit one but I already know they would send it back unread. I sent a comment on one of the articles in the Mauser rifle issue last year. I just wanted Scoville to read it for his own information as it was about my Mauser .22, the one Mauser rifle they overlooked in that issue of the magazine. I stated in the letter that this was not for publishing

His wife sent it back to me with a rejection notice. They didn't even read it.

I have sent multiple letters to various contributors of that magazine. The only one I have ever gotten a reply from was John Barsness, and he replys promptly with a usable response.

I have received no reply from RonSpomer, Charles Petty, John Haviland, Stan Trzoniec.

In the latest issue there is and article on the 6mm Remington by Trzoniec.

He states that Remington brought out the .244Rem with a 1/10 twist barrel when Winchester used a 1/12 barrel, as a result the .244 never took hold.

Well I have known the correct version of this story since I was 12 years old and read it in Outdoor Life mag by Jack O'Connor.

The .243 's had 1/9 twist barrels from the start and would stabilize 100 gr bullets. The .244 came out wth a 1/12 barrel and wouldn't stabilize anything well above 85 gr. It was designed to target the varmint hunter, and it couldn't bridge the gap between varmint rifle and deer rifle.

Remington killed the .244 and reintroduced it as the 6MM Rem with a 1/9 barrel, but it never achieved the popularity of .243, as the .243 was too far ahead.

Why this got by amazes me, as it is such Common Knowledge in the industry I thought everyone knew it.

I've known it for 50 years! My first high power rifle was a .243 for this exact reason.

Randy

Kevin Rohrer
04-30-2012, 04:48 PM
I have also been working on an article and would have loved to get it published in Handloader. I will be submitting it to Varmint Hunter instead.

I can think of so many ideas for fresh articles for that magazine, but it is useless to mention them to the "leadership" there. They are clueless as to what readers want or need, and apparently have no interest in providing it.

And for the record, I hope this thread continues until Handloader wises up, or they go belly-up.

LUBEDUDE
04-30-2012, 05:11 PM
His wife sent it back to me with a rejection notice. They didn't even read it.

I have sent multiple letters to various contributors of that magazine. The only one I have ever gotten a reply from was John Barsness, and he replys promptly with a usable response.

I have received no reply from RonSpomer, Charles Petty, John Haviland, Stan Trzoniec.
Randy


When subscribers and readers go to the trouble actually write a letter and send it in and then it is not even read; what an insult! That magazine is sure to suffer anemia as well as the big headed writers.

:coffeecom

Shiloh
04-30-2012, 06:36 PM
HA!

You can get over 20 years of every article on CD from Mother Earth News for $40.

$20 for the first 10 years, and $20 for the second, and the quality is very good too... :roll:

What kind if reloading data is in Mother Earth News??:kidding:

Shiloh

leadman
04-30-2012, 08:51 PM
Do you remember when MV was on here quite a bit? Think it was him that asked for the numbers of top punches that fit Lee molds.
Haven't heard much from MV lately.
The list of top punches is in the back of the new Lyman Cast Bullet manual. Guess who worked on that?

bbqncigars
04-30-2012, 11:35 PM
I am surprised that no one mentioned Jeff Cooper as an admired writer. Also Bill Jordan, a genuine pistolero of some note. As far as gun magazines go, none of the current ones hold any interest for me. Wow, an issue exploring 9mm vs. 45acp? Is it that time of the year already? SHEESH!!


Wayne

Kevin Rohrer
05-01-2012, 03:27 PM
They weren't mentioned because they never wrote for Handloader.

DVC

Willee
05-03-2012, 06:05 AM
The great thing about electronic digital media is that it is easily copied and reproduced.

Now if someone were to buy that CD and make copies available to a few chosen friends at a much more reasonable cost everyone would be happy ... except Handloader Magazine.

That is the risk they take when their digital media is overpriced to the point of ridiculous ... and probably why it is so high priced to start with.

Anybody want to get on my chosen friend list? ... :wink: ...

Willee