8mm-.357...Brainstorm or brainfart ?

[Razor]

I want a 303-38 like JeffinNZ...
only got 2 SMLE's..and can't bear to mess with 'em..
Got lots of M38 Turks..
Any body done a 8mm necked up to '38' ???
Possible or waste of time ??
Something kinda like a .38-55.....
blackpowder of course

Razor
:castmine:

[Buckshot]

.............I have a 375-06 Ackly Improved and yours on the 57mm long case would be similar, just 6mm shorter. Kind of an overgrown 9.3x57.

http://www.fototime.com/7C7D23E1D49E845/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/E763D260E176835/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/7EC0BDD1F8B7152/standard.jpg

First Photo: 30-'06, 300gr SPBT, 270gr SP, 300gr SP. Middle Photo: 220gr 30 cal, 352gr NEI slug, and loaded, loaded 328gr slug. Last photo 8x57 with Lyman 323471, 210gr & 375-06 with Sierra 300gr SP.

...............Buckshot

[Frank46]

I think that the 9.5x57 would be what you are looking for. If memory serves it takes
.375 dia boolits. Course if you get a 9.3x57 which is supposed to take .366 dia boolits you may find yourself shooting cast boolits close to .370 as the bores on some of the 9.3x57's run a little large. Frank

[Euan]

Giday Razor, I have done a vz 33, 98 mauser afew years ago to 9.5x57 ackley imp.
it goes very well, a great bigger game round. it was chambered with a 6mm Ackley improved reamer. Then used a 375 cal neck and throater reamer from Dave manson. The only reason that I used the Improved reamer was to give it a larger shoulder. Manlicher had a very similar round around 1910, the 9.5x56.
Cheers Euan.

[Razor]

Thanks fellas...
9.3 or 9.5 huh..??
Cool.. I think I'll start lookin..for a barrel, that is..
Welcome Euan.. Manlicher huh ?? Always did like those spoon bolt handles..Hmmm??
Anybody know a good Mauser Mechanic that does this barrel swap thing ???

Razor

[sav300]

Welcome Euan from over the pond.

[bobk]

Razor,
Putting a barrel on is easy, so do it yourself! First, obtain barrel (This appears to be the hard part). Screw it on, and mark for cutting the extractor groove. This can be done on a milling machine, but a file works. Fireform cases. Set up dies. Now, if you were doing a common caliber, I would not recommend this quick&dirty method. Anyway, adjust the dies to just contact the shoulder. Either adjust the dies out, or face some off the base of the sizing die to push the shoulder far enough back for easy chambering.

Begin experimenting.

Really, the toughest case to headspace is a straight, rimmed case, because you can't fudge it. Bottlenecked cases are whatever you make them. Think I'm being sloppy? Lotsa factory chamberings aren't all that precise.
Bob K

[lar45]

At the Linebaugh seminar a guy brought a 9.3x57 that was a commercial Obendorf sporter. :O :)

With a custom turned brass bullet, it went over 5 feet in the penetration box.

A 375x57 wouldn't be a bad choice either.

Not all the Mausers need the extractor groove cut. I've only seen one that had it. I'm not the Mauser expert though.

[Johnch]

I used to have a 9x57 ,Never even got it out of the gunshop

Got it from Sarco a year or so back

Sold it to someone that JUST HAD TO HAVE IT
IMO it should be between the 358 and 35 Wellen that I bought with the $ from the 9 X 57

Making brass should be real easy
Never checked to be sure they would work , but was hoping to use 358 or shortened 35 Wellen dies


John

[Euan]

Razor, Hopefully the picture of the 9-5x57 Ackley turns out. It is loaded with a CBE376-300gc.
Also 300Sav, Thanks for the greetings.
Cheers Guys, Euan.

[Euan]

hope this works

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I have a 9.5 X 56.7 Mannlicher-Schoenauer on a Remington 700 Classic (ex-7X 57) and a Dave Manson collaboration reamer from when he was still at Clymer, specced to Redding prints and the Remington Whelen base dimensions of the brass I use for forming .

The Remington has a 26" long barrel # 4 contour, 12" twist and shoots cloverleafs at 100 yards with Imr 4064 and Hornady 275 grain Spirepoints. Deer just give up when the safety comes off.

It is also known to Brits as the 375-400 Rimless Nitro Express, 2, 1/4.

I would trade the reamer and HS gauge, used once, for someone to fit and chamber my contoured 375 blank to my Swede action. I want a carbine too!

BvT

[jimkim]

I'm with johnch. What is wrong with just buying a 35 Whelan barrel? It seems like an awful lot of work to ALMOST duplicate a proven cartridge. If you want something shorter why not the 358 win?

[Frank46]

John, I know what you mean. I got mine from sarco a few years back, cleaned the bbl and the rest of it and its still sitting in the safe. FWIW go to gunboards.com and "Swedish Commercial rifles" section of their swedish section. Should be the one below the "swedish military rifles" and look for some articles by the name of "LeeSpeed". This gentleman has done some remarkable work on the 9.3x57 cartridge. Detailed load data, and detailed how he swages down 375 condums to fit the 9.3x57 bore. All 9.3's bore dimensions are not the same. Regards,Frank

[yondering]

Razor, if you need someone to do barrel work for you, I HIGHLY recommend Benchmark Barrels, in Arlington. They don't advertise because they stay busy without it, but I can supply contact info if you like. If you have the $$, they can build you whatever barrel and chambering you want, but could also do your barrel swap for you.

For just swapping barrels, I second the idea to just do it yourself. It's handy to have a Mauser action wrench anyway. I've used mine quite a bit for my own rifles and friends'.

[Blammer]

Here is a good read from the past.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=24903

[Razor]

Thanks for the ideas Guys...
Now All I have to do is make up my mind on the caliber.
What I'm thinking of is;
longabout .38 something...
based on 8mm case (so no bolt face mods)
BPCR (1 in 14 twist ?)
single shot --so mag dimensions/feeding not a consideration...


Yondering.
Thanks.. I'll check out Benchmark in Arlington..

Blammer,
You're right... it is a good read..Thanks.
I'm gonna have to go over it a few times to digest it though..

Razor

[lar45]

ER Shaw can make Mauser barrels for $150.
http://www.ershawbarrels.com/
They have a list of calibers, but can do some others that are not on the list, just e-mail them. They can also fit the barrel to your action if you want.

Midway has Mauser barrels also, but are usually short chambered, so you'll have to finish chambering it to get the headspace right.
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?tabid=9&categoryid=11551&categorystring=10636***10560***9144***

There are places to rent a reamer. http://69.49.184.85/Default.asp?Redirected=Y

[Frank46]

Razor, if you are looking for a 9.3x57 check out allans armory has good selection of both 96 and 98 actioned mausers for sale. Has pics so you can see what you are getting before plunking down your hard earned bucks. But if you want something like
Jeff's 375 see if you can find a #4MKI or #4MKII with trashed bbl and rebarrel to 375
caliber. Others more knowledgeable than me could give you more info. The british did at one time did chamber the earlier versions of the lee enfield to 375 but cannot recall the exact cartridge designation. Frank

[bruce drake]

I'd recommend a 358 winchester or 35 whelen barrel first. Brass is easier to find/reform; the dies are standard dies and the twist rates for most barrels are already set for cast.

Bruce

[azrednek]

Guess I'm showing my age and conservative personality. There are allot of good suggestions but what's wrong with leaving it a 8X57?? I have several Turks, a couple are such good shooters with cheapie surplus ammo I wouldn't consider removing or re-chambering the excellent shooting military barrels.

After I get my current projects completed, I have one great shooting Turk I'm going to cut and crown the barrel. If it still shoots anywhere near as good as it does in it's military configuration. I'll turn it into a full blown sporter project with after market safety, trigger, wood stock and budget permitting a hinged trigger guard. I know I'll have allot more $$ in it than the cost of a brand new in the box rifle but I will have the satisfaction of saying I did it.

Don't let me discourage you though, I know the feeling well when you have your mind made up on a particular cartridge. Several years ago a friend just had to have a 300 H&H. He dropped a small fortune into a US Enfield project. He could have put together a Mauser project in 300 Winchester or 308 Norma, got more velocity for allot less $$ but he had his heart set on a 300 H&H and there just wasn't any changing his mind.

[Boz330]

[

Don't let me discourage you though, I know the feeling well when you have your mind made up on a particular cartridge. Several years ago a friend just had to have a 300 H&H. He dropped a small fortune into a US Enfield project. He could have put together a Mauser project in 300 Winchester or 308 Norma, got more velocity for allot less $$ but he had his heart set on a 300 H&H and there just wasn't any changing his mind.[/QUOTE]

YEP, YEP, YEP, happens to me all the time. Really if you get down to it you only need 5 guns to do everything you could ask for.
A 22 for varmits, a 30 for deer, a 45 for elephants and such like, a 12 guage for tablefare, and a 45 auto for self defence, Viola you are covered. BUT that ain't what makes the world go round.

Bob

[Razor]

All good ideas here and I thank you fellas for them..

Bruce.. thanks.. good to know for sure now that .35 Whelan is rifled for cast.

azrednek;
You ain't discouraging me..:-D
I agree with you 100% , there aint nuthin' wrong with the 8mm..
BUT...I have 19 Turks.. I DON'T have a "38-55"...
An' I want one..:twisted:

Like I heard before : "there ain't no accounting for taste ":roll:

Razor
:castmine:

[azrednek]

An' I want one..

Razor
:castmine:

Know exactly what you're saying and the need to have 19 Turks. Something women just don't understand.

[Humpy]

There are several alternatives. As mentioned the 358 Win and 35 Whelen. But I believe you mentioned you wanted to do something on the beloved 303 Brit? That is somewhat easy.
You need a Confederate Sabre. There is a series of them I designed several years back.
6.5MM Con Sabre, 7MM Con Sabre and 306 Con Sabre.
All you do is find a 35 Whelen reamer get the base dimension ground down to .454.
Also get a set of 35 Whelen dies and cut base off .160". Run reamer in until expanded neck 303 Brit case will close snugly. Put a 85% load in case and fireform. The 303 Brit will expand to 35 Whelen Shoulder and you will have fire formed cases. You can also fireform 303 Brit ammo and while the bullets will come out tumbling you will fireform cases.

The 306 Confederate Sabre allows for six more grains of propellant as the shoulder is lots bigger. I had that reamer made by sending offf a 30.06 reamer and having the base reduced to .454". This will allow for min expansion of Brit brass on firing and give tremendous case life. Measure the ammo you plan on generating your cases from, add .001" to the largest base dimension and you are good to go.

Should you get to the Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds they have all three of them on display. When they heard I had done them they wrote me and asked for samples so I sent them along for the 303 Conversion display.

This way you can build one on a Pattern 14 with ease.