Rifle Shooting 2 Feet off POA

[Bzcraig]

What a pain in the keister this has been. Bought a Ruger American 308 compact (18" barrel), threw a scope on it and off to the range. Factory rounds made the muzzle flip up at least 4". Buy a muzzle brake, stick it on then put the gun away while we prepared to move. Get moved and settled,take gun to range only to find I can't get the POA/POI even close. Put scope in vise and find it won't move but about half of what it should have. Replace scope, go to range can't hit 9" paper plate at 25 yds after bore sighting. Frustrated! Placed several pieces of paper side to side and discover it's shooting about 24" right at 25 yds. Remove muzzle brake and voila, it shoots. Inspect muzzle brake under magnification and find what I'm guessing to be a 2mm bump inside the brake. Took a file to it and back out at the range today and I finally have the stinking rifle shooting again! Now I can finally get to the business of working up loads. Sure am glad this doesn't happen very much!

[GhostHawk]

This is where you went wrong.

"Factory rounds made the muzzle flip up at least 4". Buy a muzzle brake, stick it on then put the gun away while we prepared to move. "

First I don't think I would have bothered with a muzzle break for 4" of muzzle flip. Its a .308, not a .22.

Second, you looked for a hardware solution to a ammo problem. Which considering your move makes some sense. But if you had just shelved it until settled, then started some load development to get some good hard hitting but less muzzle flip rounds. You could have avoided this whole mess.

Not to mention of course that when installing the muzzle break you should have spotted that it was not perfect.

So you hoisted yourself, bootstrapped by way of a skyhook.

Pretty good trick. I'll give ya points for digging yourself out of that hole you dug yourself.

And please don't take this the wrong way. But I don't get to poke fun at you very often.
So yes I am VERY much enjoying pulling your chain this morning. Grin.

Thats what happens to people who buy those fast shooting .308's eh. Thanks for the warning.

[Petrol & Powder]

You did a good job of fixing the problems you caused.

I've never understood the desire for muzzle brakes on anything smaller than an artillery piece. Not only do they disturb the harmonics of the barrel but they also turn a loud rifle into an incredibly loud rifle. I see people put muzzle brakes on .22 rimfire guns and it just makes me scratch my head and ask why. Maybe on a Barrett chambered in 50 BMG but not on a .308.

Please do not take this wrong, I'm not trying to be offensive. I've just never been fond of muzzle brakes, ported barrels and compensators. I can sort of understand a compensator or ported barrel on some race gun where muzzle flip slows down the re-acquisition of the target. I understand muzzle brakes on rifles that have extreme recoil but even then I question their use.

[Texas by God]

What brand of muzzle brake? I would give the maker the what for.
Nobody asked but I hate muzzle brakes.

[DougGuy]

I just got done boring out one to .625" for a customer let's hope he has better luck!:idea:

[country gent]

BzCraig, I have seen both muzzle breaks and flash hiders have this small issue with moving poi around. SOme is dueto barrel harmonics being affected by the weight on the muzzle. The pther is the hole not properly alighned with the bore true and things out of round. This normally causes the biggest amount of change. One of the National Match mods to M!$s was to ream the flash hider out with a no 7 taper pin reamer to around .400 at the muzzle. There was a gage made to test alighnment of the flash hider to bore also. M16 had the flash hiders opened up considerably over bore size from the start.

[tazman]

I have had to shoot next to people with muzzle brakes and I won't put one on my rifles because of the noise. I don't want to do that to other people who have to shoot next to me.
The last time I shot next to a 308 with a muzzle brake I had to readjust everything each time he fired. The concussion was unbelievable.

[M-Tecs]

Muzzle breaks have their place. I don't use them on hunting rifles do to the noise increase. I do use them on my rapid fire 22 LR target pistols and on my prairie dog rifles. They greatly help with seeing bullet impacts and since I am wearing double hearing protection the increased noise is not an issue..

[Bzcraig]

Ok there are 3 reasons I use a muzzle brake. 1) 99.5% of my shooting is done alone and I like to be able to see if my shots are hitting their target as my non shooting eye is almost worthless. 2) The range I shoot at rarely has anyone there so I don't have to be concerned about other shooters though if others show up I stop using the rifle. Finally, I have a serious medical condition that requires it...........recoil sensitivity.[smilie=l: I have been recoil sensitive but it's getting better.

I understand there is no middle ground when it comes to brakes you either like em or you don't but they do have their place.

[country gent]

While I don't use muzzle breaks my brother does on his bigger rifles. I did have to maintain and use the M1A/M14's and AR15/M16s flash hiders to maintain service rifle status in NRA CMP DCM matches. These can and do cause some of the same issues as muzzle breaks though. I don't complain about people using muzzle breaks as I understand on a lot of rifles and occasional shooters recoil is an issue. I have no problem and if it does bother me I simply move over a few benches away. Or even down to the other end of the range if needed. While their added noise maybe a small problem for me My Black powders smoke, confetti and boom is also a distraction for them. LOL

[Bzcraig]

This is where you went wrong.

"Factory rounds made the muzzle flip up at least 4". Buy a muzzle brake, stick it on then put the gun away while we prepared to move. "

First I don't think I would have bothered with a muzzle break for 4" of muzzle flip. Its a .308, not a .22.

Second, you looked for a hardware solution to a ammo problem. Which considering your move makes some sense. But if you had just shelved it until settled, then started some load development to get some good hard hitting but less muzzle flip rounds. You could have avoided this whole mess.

Not to mention of course that when installing the muzzle break you should have spotted that it was not perfect.

So you hoisted yourself, bootstrapped by way of a skyhook.

Pretty good trick. I'll give ya points for digging yourself out of that hole you dug yourself.

And please don't take this the wrong way. But I don't get to poke fun at you very often.
So yes I am VERY much enjoying pulling your chain this morning. Grin.

Thats what happens to people who buy those fast shooting .308's eh. Thanks for the warning.


Now that just hurts my brother! :kidding:

[tazman]

I own a Savage 10 FCP-SR with the 24 inch barrel in 308. The muzzle was threaded at the factory for a compensator/brake. It comes with 2 rings screwed on to protect the threads.
Every time those rings loosen enough for one of the rings to move, my groups go weird. Impact point shifts randomly up to 4 inches at 100 yards.
I finally got tired of screwing them back down tight. I loctited them in place. No problems since and my groups actually got tighter.
My point is, it takes very little change at the muzzle to cause problems with accuracy.

[nicholst55]

A sound suppressor (silencer) is the best muzzle brake made for rifles.

[gpidaho]

Taz; Not to jump Craig's thread but I decided to just ignore the scratch (gouge) in the chamber wall of my Savage 10 FCP-SR as it shoots very accurately and I'm afraid I might get a worse shooting barrel if I send it back. (REALY accurate as is) and thanks for the tip about the screw on muzzle thread protector. No problem so far but I know now to watch for it. Gp