Boolit Lube on fired case mouths

[MakeMineA10mm]

Just wanted to check my own belief about what is happening here with the experienced crew. -->

Shot my new (repro) Winchester 1866 today with some 44 Special handloads. I loaded the MAVdutchman custom 210gr RNFP (Big Lube) with 4.4grs and 5.6grs of W231. The boolits are cast of WW +1% tin and are lubed with the NRA 50/50 formula lube.

Now, the lube groove on this boolit is ENORMOUS. It was really designed for Black Powder shooting, hence the large lube groove for massive quantity of SPG (or similar) lube. Since I was shooting smokeless in this instance, I lubed these boolits with the NRA formula.

While shooting and picking up my brass, I noted that there were minor to significant whisps or layers of boolit lube, typically extended outwards from the mouth of the cases. (Kind of made them look longer than they are, like 44 Magnums with ragged case-mouths, until you see that it's the soft, brown, NRA-formula boolit lube.)

What do you guys think is happening?




(BTW, it was dead accurate - Was shooting clover-leaf groups at 25 yards, and plinking empty shotgun shells off the target stands with these loads. Also, they were quite low-pressured. The outsides of the cases are coated with soft black soot.)

[docone31]

Lube spatter.
I get that on some of my cases. It is black on mine. The other day at the range I got black flakes all my and my wife's forearms. We both shot the same castings, her in her .45 myself in my .45.
I wonder, now, if the case mouth is perhaps not exactly tight against the bore. The pressure would compress the lube in the cavity, plus, the heat of ignition would make the lube semi-liquid.
It makes sense to me anyway. I see that, I just never thought about it, except it exists and the boolitt seems to go about where I point it.

[454PB]

It's nothing to worry about, it means you have plenty of lube.

[HeavyMetal]

You can't complain about the accuracy! But I'll second the notion that these may be a bit light and your not expanding the brass enough to seal the case against the chamber "wall". Thus stuff that should burn doesn't and this also accounts for the blackened cases.

The real question is does this bother you enough to worry about? A little harder lube may solve the "problem" but at what expense?

If it bothers you try different lubes or bump up the load a little, if it doesn't live with it.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thanks all. That is exactly what I thought. I figured, if anything, I may have too much lube, and I do worry about wasting the 50/50 in that big lube boolit, but it IS better to have too much than not enough! [smilie=1:


It's nothing to worry about, it means you have plenty of lube.

[Calamity Jake]

MMA10, you want a 38 cal big lube mould to go with that 44?

I have a 6cav that I don't use, yours cheap if you want it.

[Larry Gibson]

It's simply because the light loads your firing do not have enough pressure to obturate the cases to seal the chambers and lube blows back around the cases. Common problem with softer lubes and the lighter loads.

Larry Gibson

[montana_charlie]

Is that Starline brass?
Signs of blowback, in any rifle-fired ammo, would have me annealing cases...
CM

[MakeMineA10mm]

MMA10, you want a 38 cal big lube mould to go with that 44?

I have a 6cav that I don't use, yours cheap if you want it.

Thanks Jake, but I only shoot 44s... I probably should take you up on it, 'cause one never knows.... I'll PM ya.


It's simply because the light loads your firing do not have enough pressure to obturate the cases to seal the chambers and lube blows back around the cases. Common problem with softer lubes and the lighter loads.

Larry Gibson

Yeah, I've had it happen frequently before with light loads, but it's much more pronounced with these loads, and I think that extra amount of lube is because the lube groove is carrying so much lube (excessive amounts, though it doesn't really hurt anything...).


Is that Starline brass?
Signs of blowback, in any rifle-fired ammo, would have me annealing cases...
CM

Hi Charlie. Not Star-Lines this time. These were a mixture of mostly W-W and PMC, but there were some R-Ps and maybe a one or two other makes.

This carbine is getting converted to 44 Russian as soon as I get enough alone time to tear it down and replace the lifter. These loads will be identical, except for the shorter case. The 44 Russian cases will be star-line, naturally...

I've never annealed pistol brass (even that which is fired in rifles). I think the blow-back issue is really about the load being so light. I've had similar situations with WC loads in 357 Magnum cases and a few other light loads I've done... I don't care if the brass gets burnt on the outside. (Looks more ol' timey that way :mrgreen: )

[runfiverun]

it also helps it slide through a carbide sizer easier also.
you also could have the boolit moving before the crimp fully opening and it is grabbing some lube.
sign of low pressure also.
with real soft lube in some of my pistols the cases will come out covered in lube
in a liquid form.

[gon2shoot]

"dead accurate"....."clover leaf "......so why are we gonna fix it?

[MakeMineA10mm]

"dead accurate"....."clover leaf "......so why are we gonna fix it?

Oh for heaven's sake! I never said nuthin about fixin' it!!! :mrgreen:

I LIKE it just fine... For a smokeless powder load... I was just wondering if there was a problem someone else had figured out from these low-pressure loads that I didn't know about.

I'm gonna get some holy black loaded up and those big-lube boolits will certainly work out well then. Hopefully, these smokeless loads were just a hint of what's to come with the holy black... Loaded properly, I've found my BP loads to shoot from just a hair to a might fair amount better than my smokeless loads. (Course, that's assuming I get it all right the first time.)