Discussion about Lee 45 (H&G 68 200 SWC) cast boolits in semi-auto

[PBaholic]

I'm using the 2 cavity Lee TL452-230-2R mold with great success, and am ready to go to the 6 cavity mold. I'm shooting these in Ruger semi-auto's (P345, SR45, American). I would like to get away from the TL molds, as I'm powder coating, so I don't really need this. I end up with little slices of top ring of the boolit, which comes from the brass slicing a little of it off as I seat the boolit. Not really a problem, but if I could eliminate this I would.

I tried the 452-228-1R mold, and had issues with my guns. I could not get my COA and crimp right to get reliable feeds. I think this was because the 228 doesn't have a shoulder, where the 230 does. I'm crimping right at the shoulder on the 230's, and end up with a OAL at 1.24. These feed and shoot perfect.

I was looking at the H&G 68 200 SWC (.452 200 grain non-TL), but have read that some people have issues with this boolit feeding in a semi-auto pistol. The face of this boolit seems fairly flat, where the TL version of this mold is rounder (TL452-200SWC).

If you have experience with the H&G 68 200 SWC boolits in semi-autos I'd like to hear from you.

Here is the full list of all 6 cavity molds from Lee:

LEE 6 CAV MOLD 452-200-RF - Looks like it has a crimp groove
LEE 6 CAV MOLD 452-228 1R - Doesn't work for me
LEE 6 CAV MOLD 452-230TC - Flat nose, looks like it could be a problem
LEE 6 CAV MOLD 452-255-RF - Looks like it has a crimp groove
LEE 6 CAV MOLD H&G 68-200 SWC

LEE 6 CAV MOLD TL452-200SWC
LEE 6 CAV MOLD TL452-230-2R - My existing mold, which works well
LEE 6 CAV MOLD TL452-230TC - Flat nose, looks like it could be a problem

[Grmps]

LEE 6 CAV MOLD TL452-230TC - Flat nose, looks like it could be a problem --
Not a big problem, just have to seat it deep enough for your gun, my Ruger likes 1.170 OAL
With the 2R, if I flare the case just a touch more it gets rid of the lead rings

LEE 6 CAV MOLD 452-255-RF - Looks like it has a crimp groove-- one of my favorites for 45 long colt, hence the crimp groove

[mdi]

I was looking at the H&G 68 200 SWC (.452 200 grain non-TL), but have read that some people have issues with this boolit feeding in a semi-auto pistol. The face of this boolit seems fairly flat, where the TL version of this mold is rounder (TL452-200S. I have a Lee 452-200-SWC and it won't feed reliably in my P90, but several hundred have gone through my RIA 1911 without a hitch. The shoulder on the SWC hangs up on the feed ramp of my Ruger P90. I don't have the info in front of me but one of the Lee RN 45 bullets, 1R?, is problematic because it's stubby and needs to be seated fairly short...

I also have a Lee 452-230-TC and it feeds well in both my 45 ACPs.

[btreanor]

I've had great luck with feeding the Lee copy of H&G 68 200 SWC (.452 200 grain non-TL) in both my 1911s and my Glocks. However, I found that the Lee TL452-200SWC didn't do very well at all in either of those types of guns. I think it had more to do with the overall length than the shape of the nose.

[Bama]

If you can get your hands on "Hallock's .45 Auto Handbook" 1980, it covers the release points on the magazine to feed wad cutters. It actually works and by manually working slide it will feed even feed unloaded brass with no issuers in 1911's. I have used both the lee and Saeco copy of H&G 68 with excellent results (documented over a ton of lead).

[jcren]

The Lee (68) swc, 200 round flat and 230 tc all work well for me in a few pistols and a Hi-point carbine. The 68 style is usually slightly more accurate but that 200 rf is a thumper and will stand a hotter load in the carbine due to greater bearing surface.

[Moonie]

I have the 200 SWC, it feeds well when seated where the pistol likes it, and the 230 TC feeds in everything I've tried it in, in fact I have that style TC in 45, 9mm and 40. Feeds perfectly. Heck I had someone at the range having issues with ball ammo in a little taurus, it fed my 230 TC loads perfectly.

[mehavey]

For those who are having trouble feeding the H&G68 (or any lead SWC),
are you leaving enough shoulder exposed to ease transition?

https://s10.postimg.org/ocrgp1x89/45_ACP_H_G68_200_Crmp_Dia.jpg
https://www.thehighroad.org/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi55.tinypic.com%2Frae 1vs.jpg&hash=a369de6c2640b154e7228329b69635a0

[OptimusPanda]

I've never had any problems with the lee 452-200swc in my 1911. COAL 1.260" or so. Many thousand through the gun by now with few problems.

[TexasGrunt]

For those who are having trouble feeding the H&G68 (or any lead SWC),
are you leaving enough shoulder exposed to ease transition?

https://s10.postimg.org/ocrgp1x89/45_ACP_H_G68_200_Crmp_Dia.jpg
https://www.thehighroad.org/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi55.tinypic.com%2Frae 1vs.jpg&hash=a369de6c2640b154e7228329b69635a0

That's a lot more shoulder than I leave exposed. I use my thumbnail as a guide. Works every time for the #68 and clones.

[GooseGestapo]

Ditto the "thumbnail" shoulder exposed.
To eliminate the "lead-shaving", seat and crimp in two separate ops.
I suggest the Lee Taper Crimp die.
DON'T get the "factory crimp die" It has a carbide sizer that will size down the loaded round including the lead bullet inside the case. Wrecks accuracy.

I do use a 9mm FCD, but it only sizes the base of the case, as the 9mmPara case is tapered...
But NEVER one for a straight case! i.e..45acp, .40s&w, .38spl...etc.

[S.B.]

TL?
Steve

[PBaholic]

TL?

TL is Lee's "Tumble Lube" version. They have smaller rings that they say holds their Alox lube better.

197962

Ideally I would like a plain 230 version, with no rings as I powder coat. I've tried the 228, but had trouble with the lack of shoulder, and could never find a reliable OAL and crimp.

[DerekP Houston]

That's a lot more shoulder than I leave exposed. I use my thumbnail as a guide. Works every time for the #68 and clones.

Thumbnail thickness is what I do as well. i had occasional hang ups with my tisa 1911 clone until I sat them a tad deeper. I've flirted with the idea of getting mine throated for easier feeding just not pulled the trigger.

[PBaholic]

Here's my current boolit. This works VERY well in my Ruger Non-1911, and various 1911 pistols I've tried.

197963

I've shot over 10K of these in the last year.

If you look at the diagram of the 228 vs 230, you might notice I'm crimping above the shoulder. At OAL 1.255+ this design fails. I know this, as I was chugging away one day, and not paying attention to my length. I could tell I was going long, as I could see it in the crimp, but I left it alone. I had a few hundred over 1.250, and some approaching 1.260. Nothing but jams, so I had to resize them, and re-crimp back to 1.240.

[Treetop]

If you can get your hands on "Hallock's .45 Auto Handbook" 1980, it covers the release points on the magazine to feed wad cutters. It actually works and by manually working slide it will feed even feed unloaded brass with no issuers in 1911's. I have used both the lee and Saeco copy of H&G 68 with excellent results (documented over a ton of lead).

Plus one on Bob Hallock's book. I have 5 or 6 books on the 1911 and his book is the one I use most. I met him at a gun show in Houston Texas in 1981, he had a booth and was selling his, then new, book. He signed my book for me and left me a nice little note. My copy is now dog eared and stained with Prussian Blue , oil, and coffee! Sorry for the thread drift but if you like working on 1911s you will like this book. Semper Fi, Treetop.

[therealhitman]

I've never had any problems with the lee 452-200swc in my 1911. COAL 1.260" or so. Many thousand through the gun by now with few problems.

I have had zero issues with both the Lee and Saeco versions over many years in lots of 1911s.


That's a lot more shoulder than I leave exposed. I use my thumbnail as a guide. Works every time for the #68 and clones.

That's how my Daddy taught me to check 'em too.

[toallmy]

I have 2 45s one prefers the # 68 and the other likes the # 130 saeco , but they both run the lee 230 TC lube grove 6 cavity really good . The thumb nail works for me with the # 68 as well .

[trixter]

I have several molds in 45 (452), Mihec 452 HP; which is 3 molds in one, it does round hp's and hex hp's and round nose solids. then there is the Mihec H&G 68 clone in 200gr, then there is Lee H&G 68 clone, and my favorite Lee TL 452-200-SWC; here's why,
this 6 cavity mold drops boolits consistently at .452 +/- .2 and the micro grooves have a lot of surface to allow powder coating to make contact with the barrel. This boolit is very easy to load and very forgiving in the chambering process.
The gun I shoot these in is a Springfield Armory 45 XDm. I load light (less powder, 4.2 gr Bullseye) and the gun cycles but the recoil is minimum. And the really fun part (besides the adrenalin rush) is the beautiful round holes in the target.
I love this hobby.

[mdi]

FWIW; Powder coating takes well to Lee's "micro groove" T/L bullets. I've done a few (.44 230 SWC T/L) and it works as well as on any bullet....

[Boolseye]

HG-68: Thumbnail's width of bearing surface showing and a stout taper crimp has done the job in every .45 I've owned. Guess we all learned from the same guy :idea:

[williamwaco]

That is my favorite .45 bullet since around 1965. I have never found a .45 that will not feed it reliably but some need a few thousandths adjustment in seating depth.

you should be able to solve your shaving problem with your expander adjustment. You can absolutely solve it with a bevel base version of the bullet.

[PBaholic]

To eliminate the "lead-shaving", seat and crimp in two separate ops.

I'm already doing this. The shaving is the top of the brass cutting off part of the top ring. I already have my expansion of the brass as much as it can be done and still be able to crimp it.

The shaving isn't really that big of a problem.

[35remington]

Leaving the 230-2r's shoulder above the case mouth to approximate 1.265" is the correct way to do it as it allows taper crimping to the proper dimension rather than on the subcaliber nose of the bullet. Unless the taper crimp has some amount of "bite" into the full caliber bullet it is useless in helping prevent setback. If it is taper crimped into the subcaliber nose of the bullet such that it bites into the lead to serve its purpose the headspacing surface of the case mouth is smaller than it should be.

Taper crimping is always into full bullet diameter. Never subcaliber.

If your guns will not allow correct chambering at such length to allow taper crimping into full bullet diameter contact DougGuy to throat the gun, as in fact your firearm is improperly dimensioned.

I can explain with specific dimensioning as I am very familiar with this bullet if more is desired.

[truckboss]

In the last 35 + years i have owned at least 10 1911,Colt, Kimber, Les Baer.I shoot USPSA single stack and go thru bout 8000 H&G 68 which I cast per year.I can not recall when if i ever had a jam with this boolit at 1.250 oal.Me thinks if you are having problems you might have some type of mag,extractor or throat problem.