Making Flame throwing 9mm Major rounds?

[Thompsoncustom]

Just for fun I thought I would see how much fire my uspsa open gun could breath out the compensator ports you guys have any suggestions on how to do it? I am currently using a 115gr jacketed bullet over 9.7gr of aa#7 and it smokes a lot but no flames.

So far I'm thinking I could try:

A different powder
small rifle magnum primers
adding something that burns to the powder
adding some super slow rifle power to the aa7

If I add anything to the aa7 powder I would obviously rework up and load with the chrono but maybe there is a easier/safer option out there.

[dragon813gt]

Need a different powder. Blue Dot makes a hell of a fireball. Don't know if it will make major, but 8 grains is an old max load.

[S.B.]

I've never mixed powders? Only person I know of that was brave enough was Dick Casull?
Steve

[anothernewb]

power pistol or blue dot make nice fire, especially in low light conditions.

I know 10.5 grains of BD in my 357 in low light really makes a show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH3rxiYfAPs
video of blue dot.

With a really slow powder, a mag primer may help with unburned powder - but I have no idea if it will make the flash brighter.

[Shiloh]

just curious, why do you want to do this? Just for show??

Shiloh

[David2011]

You probably can't do it and still make Major if that is important. You need a slower powder that is known for its big flash. The flash is from powder burning after it leaves the barrel. I'll leave specific powder recommendations to others since that has never been one of my load criteria. You might reverse engineer the subject by researching low flash loads. Maybe you'll learn what people are getting away from.

If you really want a big flash shoot a .44 Auto Mag. The flame is 18"-24" in direct sun and spectacular at night.

[Thompsoncustom]

just curious, why do you want to do this? Just for show??

Shiloh

Ya just to do it



You probably can't do it and still make Major if that is important. You need a slower powder that is known for its big flash. The flash is from powder burning after it leaves the barrel. I'll leave specific powder recommendations to others since that has never been one of my load criteria. You might reverse engineer the subject by researching low flash loads. Maybe you'll learn what people are getting away from.

If you really want a big flash shoot a .44 Auto Mag. The flame is 18"-24" in direct sun and spectacular at night.

I have a 500S&W and a buddy of mine has a 460 rowland both of these guns flash a lot in low light. I'm more just curious to see what I can do with 9mm major and how it might look through my 11 port compensator.

Thanks for the heads up on Blue Dot, I've shot some 9mm major with power pistol but I really don't remember it being flashy in that gun tho I wasn't looking for flash when I was developing loads either.

[S.B.]

Make Major with a 9mm???? Remember the .38 Super face? Is your 9mm chamber supported?
Steve

[Thompsoncustom]

Make Major with a 9mm???? Remember the .38 Super face? Is your 9mm chamber supported?
Steve

Do they even use anything but 9mm in open division anymore :) i've had 2 case failures due to using mixed brass and getting some foreign garbage in there I have since switch to only Win headstamp brass, both the gun and my face were not effected luckily. Yes chamber is fully supported.

197294

[Grump]

Win 296 is the BEST "flashlight" powder I have ever used.

But powder charges in .357 Mag were so heavy, my 1400 fps 125-gr JHP loads kicked like 158-gr loads with lighter charges but I think a little more? muzzle energy.

Lemme run QuickLOAD and see if you can put enough of it under a 115-gr bullet...

[Grump]

Well...100% loading capacity with a Hornady 115-gr JHP predicts only 950 fps from a 6-inch barrel... 1.169" OAL which is pretty long for that bullet. I usually load mine to about 1.1 to 1.12.

But it might flash like a Black Cat!

Compressing a 110% charge area load predicts a more 9mm-like 1070 fps. That powder is so dense I'm not sure it wouldn't push the bullet back out.

There's one school of thought that 296 requires a heavy bullet and heavy crimp to properly start up. I heard, for example, that its predecessor 295 (which my Dad loved) was discontinued because of poor ignition and stuck bullets in cold weather--like somewhere below 20° F. Rumors subject to verification of course. But I also suspect most of those problems are eliminated by a chock-full or over--full powder area.

Not gonna give the powder charges. If there are no *published* loads for 9mm/115-gr/296, you ain't getting mathmatically-modeled charges from me.

[M-Tecs]

About 15 years ago a lot of Russian rifle powder was being imported. It did not have any flash suppressors coatings. It produced very impressive fired balls in bright sun light. I would check with the surplus powder sellers to see if the have any pistol powders with no flash suppression coatings.

[Thompsoncustom]

Win 296 is the BEST "flashlight" powder I have ever used.

But powder charges in .357 Mag were so heavy, my 1400 fps 125-gr JHP loads kicked like 158-gr loads with lighter charges but I think a little more? muzzle energy.

Lemme run QuickLOAD and see if you can put enough of it under a 115-gr bullet...

Thanks Grump i also have quickload so no worries there. It doesnt look like you can make major with it but it requires a lot of powder and might work great for fireball loads. The more powder the better with this gaint comp anyways these heavy hitting 9mm loads kick like a .22

[Loudenboomer]

33 grains of Napalm under a pop bottle rocket motor ought to do it!:)

[dragon813gt]

H110/W296 is the wrong powder for the application. It's meant for magnum rounds. No way I would ever attempt to use it in 9mm. There's a reason there are no published loads. It also doesn't produce the flash of Blue Dot.

[andre3k]

Power Pistol is what you're looking for.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Shiloh]

Win 296 is the BEST "flashlight" powder I have ever used.

But powder charges in .357 Mag were so heavy, my 1400 fps 125-gr JHP loads kicked like 158-gr loads with lighter charges but I think a little more? muzzle energy.

Lemme run QuickLOAD and see if you can put enough of it under a 115-gr bullet...

I'd be shocked to think you could put enough in a 9mm case.
I don't recall seeing any 9mm loads for 296.

SHiloh

[derek45]

Power pistol or blue dot

[Tazza]

I have seen some nice flames from people using vihtavuori, bam bam BOOM as it appears some unburnt powder in the comp catches.

Impressive blast, burns clean, works really well in the comp, but sadly it's expensive over here, when you can even get it.

Personally i run 8.2 of AP100 in my .38 super, all i get at night is an orange glow.

[Thompsoncustom]

Power pistol or blue dot

Have tired power pistol but don't remember it being flashy in this gun, from the looks of it no one makes major with blue dot because of the big flakes you can't get enough in the case and it doesn't meter well enough.

When I get some time I'm gonna try add a small amount of 3031 and/or h380 on top of AA#7. My thoughts are these powders are both so slow for this application that they wouldn't raise the pressure much but I can't be sure without testing. Also being to slow they should be burning as there exiting the compensator, again without testing it's just a guess but I assume that powders like blue dot would burn closer to the gun and powders slower like h380 would make a bigger fire ball because of the slow rate of burn the powder would be farther away when it's all burned up.

I'll report back when I get around to trying it.

[S.B.]

All this sounds to me like you guys are playing a dangerous game, here?
Steve

[Mytmousemalibu]

You can make Major PF with Power Pistol, I have done it and its actually a decent round to be honest. The higher the charge, the more efficiently it seems to burn and reduced flash occurs. My M&P Open Division gun has a custom titanium 3-port comp and 3 popple holes and it would make major with a 124gr and PP. It would still unleash a good foot & a half long flames and sparks out the loud end.

[Mytmousemalibu]

All this sounds to me like you guys are playing a dangerous game, here?
Steve

With exception of a few published loads, pretty much anyone running 9mm Major power factor is loading the cartridge beyond SAAMI specs. Some of those loads are encroaching on rifle chamber pressures but pretty much all of the guns shooting 9 major are far from stock guns. Much stronger guns made for this. Now should we be doing what we are doing as far as going beyond published maximums, no, of course not. Catastrophic failures aren't common is this sport dispite how it sounds. Kinda goes to show you how much margin of strength is in modern guns. It has been pushed towards USPSA and IPSC to lower the major power threshold but it has been on deaf ears thus far. So competitors will continue to shoot 9mm major as is. The cost to shoot a .38 Super or Super Comp gun is why 9mm major came in play.

[S.B.]

With exception of a few published loads, pretty much anyone running 9mm Major power factor is loading the cartridge beyond SAAMI specs. Some of those loads are encroaching on rifle chamber pressures but pretty much all of the guns shooting 9 major are far from stock guns. Much stronger guns made for this. Now should we be doing what we are doing as far as going beyond published maximums, no, of course not. Catastrophic failures aren't common is this sport dispite how it sounds. Kinda goes to show you how much margin of strength is in modern guns. It has been pushed towards USPSA and IPSC to lower the major power threshold but it has been on deaf ears thus far. So competitors will continue to shoot 9mm major as is. The cost to shoot a .38 Super or Super Comp gun is why 9mm major came in play.

Sir, you are changing the equation here the OP wanted to create bigger fire flames from a 9MM nothing to do with 9mm making major power factors???
Steve

[dragon813gt]

Sir, you are changing the equation here the OP wanted to create bigger fire flames from a 9MM nothing to do with 9mm making major power factors???
Steve

The thread title is "making flame throwing 9mm major rounds". It has everything to do w/ making major power factor.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Sir, you are changing the equation here the OP wanted to create bigger fire flames from a 9MM nothing to do with 9mm making major power factors???
Steve


Hence my 1st comment on making Major PF with flamey Power Pistol powder. Been there & done it but I will leave the loading data for the perspective user to figure out.

The other comment was setting the record straight as to our sport as you pointed out.

[fecmech]

Along with Power pistol Longshot might be a good flamethrower.

[fredj338]

Diff powder for sure. BlueDot is about as flashy & loud as it gets. PowerPistol is a close 2nd.

[fredj338]

The thread title is "making flame throwing 9mm major rounds". It has everything to do w/ making major power factor.

Not really. If you just want more flash & bang, simply swapping to BlueDot will give you that. I am nto sure you can even stuff enough under a 115gr bullet to go +p pressures.

[Thompsoncustom]

Well today was a great day for testing as it's really over cast and maybe even going to storm so the low lighting is perfect for this. Not nighttime but good and dark out for being 3pm in the afternoon.

Rounds tested were 115gr bullets and everthing the same except the powder.

Power Pistol= Zero Muzzle Flash
AA7 9grs= Zero Muzzle Flash
AA7 9.7gr= Zero Muzzle Flash
AA7 with 3031 added up to 1 grain= Zero Muzzle Flash
AA7 with h380 added up to 1 grain= Zero Muzzle Flash

Well the result were all the same, no flash at all just smoke being dumped out the vertical ports. Had a second person watching to make sure I didn't just miss the flash or blink but they said the same thing that there was no muzzle flash at all.

[sawinredneck]

Black powder.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzQ4uKvE7c

[Tazza]

hahaha

Now that's something i'd like to see being shot at my local club. We get people whinging about the smoke from lubed projectiles, i'd live to see their reaction to someone using black powder in a semi-auto :)

[fredj338]

Well today was a great day for testing as it's really over cast and maybe even going to storm so the low lighting is perfect for this. Not nighttime but good and dark out for being 3pm in the afternoon.

Rounds tested were 115gr bullets and everthing the same except the powder.

Power Pistol= Zero Muzzle Flash
AA7 9grs= Zero Muzzle Flash
AA7 9.7gr= Zero Muzzle Flash
AA7 with 3031 added up to 1 grain= Zero Muzzle Flash
AA7 with h380 added up to 1 grain= Zero Muzzle Flash

Well the result were all the same, no flash at all just smoke being dumped out the vertical ports. Had a second person watching to make sure I didn't just miss the flash or blink but they said the same thing that there was no muzzle flash at all.

AA powders are supposed to have flash suppressants applied, so that sounds about right.

[Scharfschuetze]

About 15 years ago a lot of Russian rifle powder was being imported. It did not have any flash suppressors coatings. It produced very impressive fired balls in bright sun light. I would check with the surplus powder sellers to see if the have any pistol powders with no flash suppression coatings.

I bought some of it for a song and in a 308 carbine with an 18" barrel it is quite impressive. I still have a few pounds left, but it never provided the accuracy I wanted in the 308, 30/06 or 30/30.

I keep a packet of magnesium shavings in my survival kit for wet wood and I also use it for fire starting demonstrations in hunter safety classes. I get it from a Boeing machinist. It burns with a bright flame. I guess a granual or two mixed with Blue Dot powder wouldn't hurt anything other than adding to the clean up time. That might be what you're after.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I can tell you from experience that Silhouette (Winchester Action Pistol), True Blue, VV 3N38, Autocomp, W572 and maybe a couple I'm forgetting, are all just a big blast of noise and some smoke from the comp. I Also tested HS6 which did produce a small amount of flash. Now big fireballs weren't my goal, i was seeing wjat felt the best and kept the muzzle flattest.

I don't know if Blue Dot will fulfill your needs, it should be a top contender in the flash department but major power factor I don't know. Power Pistol on the other hand will make major and breath fire and in all honesty its pretty gassy and felt good in comparison to the top performers in my testing. Literally having your cake and eating it too.
Its surprising how well the flash suppressants in powders today work. My former 115gr 9mm Major load was pretty much scooping the case full of 3N38 and carding it off level, a fairly compressed load that sent a 115gr Barry's HB/TP downrange at more than 1500fps. Not even a peep of flame off that load. If you try Blue Dot, let us know how it works.

I would be cautious about adding an metal solids for effects. I doubt it would harm the gun but depending on where you shoot, might be a bad idea. One of our ranges has a chunked rubber covered backstop which would be bad if it caught fire and another couple indoor ranges I frequent have pretty dirty bays sometimes. You can feel grit under your shoes which is largely unburned gun powder. Just food for thought.