1860 Colt .44

[Battis]

It has taken awhile but I finally found an original 1860 Colt .44 at a great price.
It was made in 1863. All matching numbers, even the cylinder, arbor and wedge. Visible cylinder scene, lots of original blue (holster wear on barrel) and faint case hardening colors. Nice barrel address. Nipples are in really good shape. The rifling is sharp with no bore pitting. Several inspector's marks (GG & C), cartouches on each side of the grips. The safety pins/posts on the cylinder have been cut off. A few buggered screw heads, a small dent in trigger guard, but there's no rust and it hasn't been wire brushed at all. It should be a good shooter.



http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5686_zps68peoq9t.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5692_zpsm95acua5.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5697_zpsnehla1mi.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5689_zpsfmhkt44u.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5690_zpsx11bzflq.jpg

[DakotaElkSlayer]

GORGEOUS!!!! Can't wait to hear the shooting review!

Jim

[Bazoo]

Congratulations. Neat piece of history. I too would like to hear of what the ol girl can still do.

[toot]

keep it 30 grs or under. i started my original with 20 grs, too test the water and settled on 30grs, with no problem with .454 dia RB'S. good luck with it .

[725]

Well done. Beautiful example.

[Battis]

I brought it to the range last Friday with my Pietta 1860 Colt .44. Each gun got 25 grs FFFG (I'm out of FFG), and .454 roundballs. The Pietta always shot to the left - the original was dead on. The original was louder for some reason. The original's hammer spring is much stiffer than the Pietta's. The Pietta is just about the smoothest BP revolver I own, but the Old One is pretty close.
I stripped and cleaned each gun, then put the original back in its case. The Pietta will be the shooter.
The original came with this "modern" case, repro flask, extra wedge and a few conicals.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5699_zpsoh8fyclh.jpg

Since I'm already in the PITA Photobucket, what the heck...here's a few more of my antiques:
Savage & North .36
Colt 1851 .36
Whitney .36
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/Picture%20071_zpsjef18c8d.jpg

Remington Beals .36 (factory engraved)
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/Picture025_zps35e8372d.jpg

[Bazoo]

Wow, thats sweet Battis, especially the Beals.

[.36navy]

what do you look for to see if it is in safe shooting condition? i've got a 49 pocket pistol that i have been wanting to shoot but have hesitated up to this point.

[Battis]

I take them apart, down to the last screw, and clean the internals thoroughly, checking each part as I go. Naturally I check the barrel and cylinder for cracks. I use FFG powder (when I have it) and keep the charges low, with undersized roundballs when possible. The 1860 .44 that I just fired did not shave lead when I loaded the roundballs, but the chambers are chamfered. I've also noted that my old guns have slightly larger chambers - the Savage & North for example could use .390" roundballs (I use .375 - .380). I'm not too worried about accuracy - I just like the BOOM and the smoke. Shooting the Remington Beals made me a little nervous, due to its rarity, but it's in great shape and I was careful. I wouldn't hesitate shooting the 1849 Colt - they're beefy little guns.
I have a few that I have not shot - Bacon, Allen & Wheelock, Warner - because they need new mainsprings. The oldest I've shot is an H.Aston .54 (1842).
Once a year is plenty for me with these old guns.

[Pavia]

You made my day :)

[Battis]

Here's a good pic of the Whitney beneath a Spiller & Burr repro. The Whitney was sold to me as "a pre-Italian replica." Well, the only pre-Italian guns that I know of are originals, and it's definitely original. It has the Whitney Eagle stamp inside the trigger guard.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/Picture%20012_zpscpvdfsvs.jpg

Here's a pic of the Remington Beals above a Signature Series "Custer" 1861 .36. I bought the Custer gun unfired (in the case with all the goodies) and I was offered X dollars for it, but I fired it and the offer dropped $200. So I kept it.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/Picture026_zpsc48564f8.jpg

One more - Savage & North .36 and an Allen & Wheelock .32 side hammer (I have not fired the .32 yet - it needs some work).
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4197_zps7731a670.jpg

[Boaz]

Thank you ! Enjoyed seeing them .

[Fly]

My with my love of study of the Civil war, I can only wish. Thank you for sharing. It means so much to me.

Fly

[Battis]

I gotta say that I've gotten lucky in finding these originals at crazy low prices. I have several more but I can't get the downloader to work on this site, and Photobucket takes forever.
The Spiller & Burr .36 is an interesting gun. Someone at some point defarbed it and put a lot of work into making it look original- that's my theory, at least. I've shown it to some knowledgeable people who think it is an original. On the side is stamped CSA, and in various places the number 82. I have a book that lists the known examples of Spiller & Burrs, and the number 82 is not in that list, though numbers just before and after 82 are on the list. I also checked the nipple and screw threads, knowing that replicas have metric threads, but this gun has standard American threads.
I still believe it's a reproduction that's been defarbed and faked, for whatever reason. I only paid $150 for it, so I didn't get suckered into anything.
Here's a pic of the abused recoil shield:
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/S4020010_zps1607d170.jpg

[Battis]

I think I got the uploader to work.
Check this out - a Colt Walker .44 repro and a 2mm pinfire gun that actually works (if I could find 2mm rounds).


197508

[DCP]

Have you shot the Custer?

[Battis]

I put it off for a long time but I finally shot the Custer a few years ago. 18 rounds. It shoots as good as it looks.
I have this other 3rd Generation Signature Series that I used to shoot a lot. I haven't been able to put a name on the model (Custer, Cochise, etc). I haven't seen another with those grips.
That's the case the Custer came in but this one likes to sit in it occasionally.

[DCP]

I put it off for a long time but I finally shot the Custer a few years ago. 18 rounds. It shoots as good as it looks.
I have this other 3rd Generation Signature Series that I used to shoot a lot. I haven't been able to put a name on the model (Custer, Cochise, etc). I haven't seen another with those grips.
That's the case the Custer came in but this one likes to sit in it occasionally.

Same box I have for mine. I cant bring my self to shoot it. Can you take a photo of the key hole. I need the gold insert key hole shape and how thick it is. I had a key made

[Battis]

Collectors want them unfired. As I said before, I was offered a good price for the Custer, but after I fired it, the offer dropped by $200. Was it worth it? Yep, for me at least.
I'll get a pic of the key hole.

[copdills]

great find Congrats

[Battis]

Here's a Bacon .31 that needs a new mainspring. I have the specs for a new mainspring (same as the Manhattan) but I haven't tried making it yet.

[Battis]

Here's a Warner .28 (pretty small gun). It also needs some work. The Bacon .31 in that barrel length and the Warner .28 are pretty rare, but not very valuable.

[JBinMN]

I was just enjoying the topic & the Pics! :) Thanks very much!
:)

I am wondering... I read that you say that collectors want "unfired" weapons.. Seems to me that the weapon is pretty old to have made it through the years without someone NOT firing it..

What are they looking for.. A Holy Grail of Firearms?

Seems to me that they would be happy just having a chance to buy and own old weapons like that, & not worry about it being "unfired".

{ just to mention, as it is a little bit relevant here... My father passed down a 1862 musket with bayonet to me back before he passed. It was passed to him from his father, who got it from his father, who got it in the War between the States. It has been passed to either the eldest son or the oldest son who served in the military. It has now been passed to my son who was a Combat Medic in Iraq. It has not been fired since it was fired in the WarBTStates. To "us" it has done nothing but "increase" in value since that time. I just can't seem to grasp how a "collector" would think that a weapon like that which was carried & passed would not have possibly "more" value due to its' provenance, rather than seeking out one that was never fired at all. The history of a weapon alone should make it have some value, I would think.}

Interesting. But I am still curious/confused. Other peoples thinking has confused me all my life on occasion & this is just one more mystery to add to the others, I reckon... LOL
:)

Thanks much for taking the time to share your firearms.
:)

[Battis]

My fault - I was referring to newer guns like the Signature Series Colts. Collectors of those guns like them unfired.
The 1862 musket - do you plan to shoot it? I think I would.

A neighbor of mine had an old black powder muzzle loading shotgun hanging in his garage. He took it down, I dropped the loading rod down each barrel and sure enough, one barrel was loaded. That also happened in the store where I buy my "stuff" - an old muzzle loading shotgun on the selling floor had one loaded barrel.

I have an old Belgian caplock rifle that started life as a flintlock, probably around 1842. At some point it was bored out smooth (approx. .54 caliber). I got it for a low price then sent it to Bob Hoyt for a barrel reline in .50. Great shooter.

top rifle - Springfield Trapdoor .50-70 (side plate dated 1863)
bottom - Belgian with relined barrel

[sharps4590]

Battis, what an excellent and extraordinary collection!!! Thank you for sharing it and I'm tickled pink you still shoot them!

[Battis]

Thanks.
I have basically two criteria for antique guns - they have to be shootable (maybe with a little work), and I have to be able to get at least what I paid for them if I ever sell them.
This Remington was reblued at some point, which brought it's price and value down, but it's a great shooter, and I could get my money back easily. It also came with a Pietta cylinder that actually fits, which is what I use when I shoot it.
There are some serious collectors out there - the other pic is my wife holding an original Colt Walker at the James Julia auction in Maine. They sold a Walker a few years ago for over $900,000. This one was priced at approx. $500,000. Great auction if you can ever go to one - they let you handle every gun for sale.