My first casting session/ questions ???

[lordgroom]

I had my first casting session on Saturday night. Actually I did cast a handful at a friends house about a month ago as he was showing me the ropes. He casts two 2-gang lyman molds at a time. He uses locking handles (from Buffalo Arms, they are awesome) pours, puts it down, picks up the other mould, opens the sprue by hand (without using a mallet), drops the bullets, pours into that mold, puts it down, starts with the other mould. Things went well when I was working with him. I have to check my notes when I get home from work but I think the temperature was in the 700 degree range.

My session, I started at about 700 degrees. I had one Lyman mould with locking handles (the same as my friend) and I had a Lee 2-gand mould in .358 Tumble Lube. Things didn’t go so well. Almost all of the .358 bullets were wrinkled. I increased the temperature of the pot (an RCBS bottom pour) to 750, then 800, then as high as 825. Some of the .358’s came out better. The Lyman seemed to be producing “frosty bullets”. Can’t say I have ever seen one.

I put down the Lyman mould and cast more quickly with the Lee mould and things seemed better. Since it was at night I could not inspect as I was doing it. I had plenty of light to cats and could do a rough inspection but culled obvious re-melts and did a more thorough inspection when I finished the casting session. I surmised that the Lee and Lyman moulds needed different pot temperatures to be effective and I also assumed the Lee cooled more quickly and could not be put down.

Here are my questions
1- Are my assumptions about speed of cooling with Lee versus Lyman moulds correct (lee cools more quickly and needs a faster pace than the Lyman)

2- What is the temperature everyone uses to cast with a Lyman mould and with a Lee Mould?

3- When using Lee does anyone use more than one mould? I know this technique works with 2 Lyman moulds, because I did it.

4- Can someone post a picture of a frosted bullet.

5- I was not able to open the sprue on the Lee by hand. I needed a mallet every time. Is this normal? On the Lyman after reaching temperature the sprue opens easily.

I realize one solution is to buy 4 gang and 6 gang moulds, but just learning I was advised to “cut my teeth” on single and double cavity moulds.

Thanks in advance

[docone31]

#1, new mold. They take time to settle in.
Yes, the sprue plate takes some effort. I usually watch the button for it to frost, then push the plate with a 1" dowel. They push easily.
You did not say whether you smoked the mold. I find smoking the mold is important to me in making easy to pop out castings.
There is a rythym to the Lee molds that is different from the Lyman molds. I watch the wrinkling, frosting, speed of freeze on the button.
It sounds like, in general, you had a decent casting experience for a first time mold.
The next session will go more smoothly.
Smoke the mold.
Watch the freeze time on the buttons. With experience, you will know when to push the plate for that mold.
Add some tin once in a while, it helps with wrinkles.
I water drop. I like em hard.
Frosting is good. It helps keep the lube in place.
Sounds like you got some good castings.

[454PB]

With practice and experience, you'll be able to cast with a steel and an aluminum mould at the same time. I usually begin by pre-heating the steel mould, cast until it starts to get too warm, then dunk the aluminum mould into the melt for 30 seconds. Start casting with the aluminum mould, then rotating to the steel mould.

A frosted boolit has a dull, almost galvanized look to it. I strive for light frosting on all my castings.

[Boerrancher]

It seems like most of your questions were answered but #3, and the answer is yes. I have used as many as 3 Lee molds at a time, and you have to hustle to get it done. Since my shoulder surgery a month and a half ago I am back to casting with 2. Last night I spent about 40 min total including set up time and knocked out a bit over a hundred each of 44 and 30 cal, they were both Lee molds. I have run Lyman and lee like you were trying to do, but it is a different rhythm and it was hard for me, so I always stick to the same type of mold when casting.

Best Wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[runfiverun]

yep aluminum cools off faster than iron.
and there is a different dance to each one.
you can go a bit more relaxed and a cooler pot temp once you get the ironmolds up to temp.
a grey color to a boolit is good, a white frost is bad.

[lordgroom]

What dies a white frost mean?

[docone31]

A white frost?
On the casting, or in the pot?

[lordgroom]

yep aluminum cools off faster than iron.
and there is a different dance to each one.
you can go a bit more relaxed and a cooler pot temp once you get the ironmolds up to temp.
a grey color to a boolit is good, a white frost is bad.

I assume this is on the bullet. What does a white frost on the bullet signify?

[docone31]

The white frost is a breakdown of the alloy. It is caused by excessive heat.
Now mind you, we have to define "white frost". A lead sulphate white crystaline structure is different from a white frost.
Even cranked up in my Lee Pot, I have never been able to achieve an alloy breakdown.
I have had heavy frosting on my castings, and I am not sure this is a bad thing. My .45ACP, I cast 1000 and it was a real hot cast. They cast dead on at 200gn, .452. As advertised.
As I handled the castings to load, through pan lubing, and sizing to seating, the frosting really diminished. Being water quenched wheel weight alloy, with tin, the dull black seen on pure lead casting is never there. They are dull grey, sharp mold line, good fillout, just a nice casting.
A white frost, what is in the alloy?

[lordgroom]

What I assumed was frosting had more of a smeared appearance than a galvanized appearance. That's why I was asking for pictures. Seems the pics weren't needed since you all describe things so well. Overall seems like I will be re-melting the whole lot. I could be breaking in the molds, could still have some oil from shipping on the molds I did not yet get off, or I did not smoke the molds enough.

[Goatlips]

Not my business lordgroom, but why bother remelting them unless you're short on lead? They might be better than you think, or at least good enough for plinking. Or you can show them off as your first efforts.

Goatlips

[docone31]

Dude, that is how they become our sweet, pet, molds we can count on.
I cast with a Lee mold that I had just gotten. I did not clean it, smoke it, lube it, anything.
I am going to test those castings tomorrow. It reliably casts at .312, I size it to .309 for gas checks, .308 for paper.
Next time I cast, I will dip it in acetone, lube it, smoke the dickens out of it, and I bet it casts even better. I had one that cast at .312/155gn. Blech! This one casts at .312/185gn. She is my baby! I mean almost as sweet at my 200gn .45ACP flat nose. That 155 is miserable. The 185 casts wrinkle free.
Welcome to the fun.

[454PB]

What I assumed was frosting had more of a smeared appearance than a galvanized appearance. That's why I was asking for pictures. Seems the pics weren't needed since you all describe things so well. Overall seems like I will be re-melting the whole lot. I could be breaking in the molds, could still have some oil from shipping on the molds I did not yet get off, or I did not smoke the molds enough.

Here is a picture of some lightly frosted boolits. Click on the picture for a larger view:

http://www.fumpr.com/thumbs/rgh1216701391m.jpg (http://www.fumpr.com/viewer.php?id=rgh1216701391m.jpg)

[lordgroom]

I see. Thanks for the pic. Frosting has everything to do with color and not "texture". I will try to post a pic of my bullets later tonight. Thanks everyone.

[DLCTEX]

If the sprue is hard to cut, the mold is not hot enough. When the mold is up to temp, watch the sprue puddle and when it turns solid and then cools to dull, not shiney, cut the sprue. If the base of the boolit is torn(ragged pit), wait a couple more seconds before cutting. If the sprue shows a bump where the sprue hole was, either tighten the sprue plate screw, or push down on the sprue plate while cutting. I think 1000 degrees is too hot for casting due to the possibility of lead fumes, 900 is about my limit . MY dos centavos. DALE

[Lead melter]

lordgroom,

Unless the wrinkled boolits are so bad that they have obvious gaps in the main body [read as gaps allowing gas to flow by, or seriously undersizing the body itself], why not lube up a few and give them a try?

It has been my experience, and I know I am speaking heresy here, that slightly wrinkled boolits can shoot nearly as well as pretty ones. This does have limitations on range, velocity, etc., of course, but to plink or short range practice, they may be OK.

I have tried wrinkled boolits in a variety of calibers and weapons and the result compared to perfect ones was not anything to write home about.

My Lyman .358, 158 grain RN/FP mold is the only one I use for a snubby Charter Arms 38 Special I have. Loading wrinkled boolits over 4 grains Unique and a WSP primer, it shoots to point of aim at 10 yards with as much accuracy as I expect from this revolver.

I'll probably be verbally abused for this reply, but give them a shot anyway.

[trickg]

Does anyone else here only use gloves to cast with and not use a dowel to move the sprue plate to break the sprue?

I learned to cast years ago from my Dad and he always simply broke the sprue by hand wearing a pair of heavy fuzzy cotton work gloves. There was definitely a rhythm to his casting, but he ladle casted from a small cast iron cauldron - he's simply dip, pour, put the dipper back in the pot, watch the button on top of the sprue plate until it looked cool enough, then he'd break the sprue by simply grabbing it with his gloved and and giving it a twise. Then he'd drop the button back in the melt and knock the bullets out of the mold with a light tap on the hinge pin with a nylon tipped hammer. That's how I learned to do it too, and both of us wound up with nice wrinkle-free bullets (My Dad told me that wrinkles were an indication that the mold was not yet hot enough.) and as I recall, they were nice and shiny.

I never really considered casting bullets something that was difficult to do - it seemed pretty easy to me at the time anyway. :)

[Boerrancher]

lordgroom,

Unless the wrinkled boolits are so bad that they have obvious gaps in the main body [read as gaps allowing gas to flow by, or seriously undersizing the body itself], why not lube up a few and give them a try?

It has been my experience, and I know I am speaking heresy here, that slightly wrinkled boolits can shoot nearly as well as pretty ones. This does have limitations on range, velocity, etc., of course, but to plink or short range practice, they may be OK.

I have tried wrinkled boolits in a variety of calibers and weapons and the result compared to perfect ones was not anything to write home about.

My Lyman .358, 158 grain RN/FP mold is the only one I use for a snubby Charter Arms 38 Special I have. Loading wrinkled boolits over 4 grains Unique and a WSP primer, it shoots to point of aim at 10 yards with as much accuracy as I expect from this revolver.

I'll probably be verbally abused for this reply, but give them a shot anyway.

I agree with Lead Melter. I have shot some ugly looking boolits over the years. Unless I am going to use them for competition, I don't care what my boolit looks like as long as it is not wrinkled through the grease groove area and the base is well formed. I have made some nice shots on coyotes and other critters at some pretty good distances with very ugly boolits. I figure if the varmint I'm a killin' doesn't care what the boolit looks like, then neither should I.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[lordgroom]

Great advice. I will try to fire some of the wrinkled bullets. I did throw half back though[smilie=b:

I was making bullets for a .38. .357 and for a 7.5 x 55 K31. I will be using the k31 bullets to work up a load, so I can alwys pick through for the best looking and fire the rest. Thanks for the advice.

It seems like I should just stick to Lee molds or Lyman at the same time and if Lee I will just use one till I get more experienced. When the Lyman is up to Temp I can easily break the sprue with my hand. I was not able to do that on the Lee.

Another question. I will tumble lube the .358's and run the 7.5 x 55's through my Lyman 45. Is filling one of the lube grooves sufficient or should I fill both lube grooves?

[lordgroom]

These are some bullets from my first session. I bet I threw 90 minutes worth of casting back into the pot. The SWC look wrinkled to me. The longer rounds... is this frosted?

I just ran the rifle rounds through my Lyman 45. I bought this used and it came with mystery lube :confused: I was not able to get all of it out so I have no idea how it will perform. I am trying to use Voodoo Lube which is supposed to work very well.

This is the first time I used this lubrisizer and I had no instructions. Boy I sure do like the Star better. Guess I will save up my gum wrappers.

[docone31]

Those are shootable bullets.
I could see nitpickin if you were competeing at 1000yds. Otherwise, I would shoot them and not look back.
Not too bad.

[bbutler1961]

I have only been casting about 6 months, but got plenty of advice from an old timer. I was taught to only used a gloved hand with a light rap on the hinge pin with a nylon mallet. That is with a 6 gang Lee. My buddy and I use 4 of these at a time, with one dipping and pouring and the other one cutting sprues, droppng bullets, and handing molds back over the table. It gets kinda hectic at times, but we can pump out 20 lbs of 357, 40, 44 and 45's in just a few minutes.

[lordgroom]

Ok, then. I thought they were not shootable. Thanks for the feedback.

I will only be shooting Max 100 yds at this time.

[bbutler1961]

On the old timer's advice, I also use only LBT soft blue lube. We have shot several thousand rounds of our cast bullets through various calibers and weapons and have yet to find any evidence of fouling. It amazes me how so many shooting "experts" claim that there is no way not to have fouling with cast bullets.