cast saga for my 30 carbine

[mdevlin53]

I bought an Auto Ordinance 30 Carbine last fall and the dealer threw in two boxes of Win FMJ. i shot these and the rifle performed with no problems. I wanted to shot cast in it and had a Lyman 311008 that i had read was often used in the carbine but to my dismay it had feed issues. the rounds fed well from the right side but every one would jam from the left. to try and solve this i polished the ramp with a dremel and some rouge. It is nice and smooth and shiny now but still will not feed on the one side. Knowing how a dermel and a gun can lead to disaster i stopped there and went another way.

Christmas brought me a Lee C 309-120R and i just got around to casting some a few weeks ago. I sized them to 311 and installed the gas checks at the same time. Loaded up 20 to check for function. Some would chamber and some would not seat all the way in the chamber. On some a slight push on the bolt handle would seat them but others would not. i went home and pulled the ones that would not chamber. sized twenty more with a 309 sizer and tried again. same issue. i thought perhaps they were loaded too long and tried twenty loaded deep(i was worried because this reduced case capacity so i reduced the load to the minimum) there was no improvement.
I measured the loaded cases and found that they were a few thousands bigger(case diameter) than the specks in the loading manual and i wondered why. there seemed to be a slight bulge in the area of the gas check. I ran a dummy round into my full length sizer and checked how it fit and it went in with a plunk so now i am trying to figure out what is going on.
Then i thought about the cases, I was using military brass i bought from a member. i measured the wall thickness on the mil surp brass and then some FC cases and found that it was as much as .007" thicker than the commercial brass. I loaded up 20 in the federal brass went to the range and they all fed and fired without a hitch.
So at least i can get some rounds loaded that will chamber reliably but what to do with the mil surp brass, is there a remedy i am missing or should i hold it for whenever i get some jacketed bullets.
Thanks for any input
Michael

[Larry Gibson]

The original 30 Carbine bullet diameter milspec specification was .307 diameter. sizing to .308 might help but the chamber is obviousl pretty tight in you Carbine. Also the Lee bullet seats a lot deeper where the case is thicker than the military bullet did. I suggest trying the .309 sized Lee's seated out as far as they can be in the Federal cases. Then use that OAL with the milsurp cases. You might also back the sizer out and run the loaded rounds up into it adjusting it back down to give a slight taper crimp ironing out the case mouth beveling.

Larry Gibson

[williamwaco]

It was many years ago but I shot thousands of Lyman 3118s ( now 311008) sized. 311 with nary a bobble. Today I no longer have a carbine but I can find no way to load that bullet so it will chamber in my Ruger BH. Same problem as OP, case diameter expands so much it will not enter the cylinder.

[mdevlin53]

Larry I think your plan is a good one and i will give it a whirl. I will just make a dummy as long as possible and adjust till it feeds well then charge a few and shoot a test string. cool.

Even though I sized the gas check to 309 it still seems to be the issue. It might be that the lead is getting swagged a bit when it is seated but not the copper. Sending it through the FL dire after seating sounds like a plan. ultimately i may spring for a 311410 or an Accurate plain base mold but i would like to try the 311410 first, i'll work on that.

[357Wheelgunner]

Just my two cents worth but I do believe that is why they make neck reamers and turners. If there is a 7 thou difference in the necks then cut them back to factory speck and all should be good i would think.

JMHO, YMMV

[308Jeff]

Subscribing so I can learn.

[Outpost75]

Accurate 31-100T plainbase or 31-120TG gaschecked,

196986196987

are designed to fit into and feed from the M1 carbine magazine and base to taper-crimp groove length of the GC version is the same as military FMJ. I use Starline brass and size bullets .311" for my Ruger Blackhawk and WW2-era Inland M1 carbine. In USGI brass you will need to size bullets .309"!

Nose diameter north of crimp groove is .310 with tolerance negative, which enters either my Ruger Blackhawk or Carbine throat without resistance. I use 12 grs. of Alliant #2400 or 14.5 grs. of IMR4227. For the plainbased bullet in the Ruger revolver I use 5 grains of Bullseye, which does not cycle the carbine, but is a pleasant manual-feed plinker which makes brass recovery easy.

[JohnH]

I'm curious if the rounds that still FTF are from the left side of the magazine. Sounds an awful lot like a magazine feed lip problem. Empty the magazine and look at it straight on to examine if the lips are adjusted the same. FTF with magazine fed guns almost always are related to the magazine. Certainly there can be other problems, but when the issue shows up constantly on one side of the mag...

[jimb16]

Failure to feed from one side and not the other is a magazine feed lip problem. Carefully bend the lip inward a little bit on the offending side. This will often cure the problem. Original carbine specs are for a .3075 bullet. Cast should be sized no larger than .309. Failure to seat all the way is because the bullet is too big. I've been shooting cast in carbines for many years. I used to own a legal M2 carbine and even shot cast in that without feeding issues.

[mdevlin53]

To be honest the mag is cheaply made. whilst shooting the other day the floor plate fell off. I had read about the feed lips and did some adjusting but it did not improve much. one of these days i will see about getting a better mag or two.
I was looking at the NOE 311-115-RN as an idea even can be ordered with GC and PB in the same block.
Both items above will wait on rpleneshment of the gun money fund.
As for the neck turning/reaming that might be an option now the problem, had to do that on some 43 Spanish a while back.

[beagle]

The 311008/3118 can be a pain to feed. It's a good accurate bullet for the M1 carbine. To obtain better feeding, I sized my bullets using a #311 Lyman top punch or a #430 will work. Bumps a slightly reduced meplat on the 311008 and usually feeds in several M1 Carbines I've tinkered with over the years./beagle

[308Jeff]

While we're sort of on this topic, why is it that absolutely no one makes an actual case gauge for the 30 Carbine? Wilson's is a OAL length gauge only.

As I understand it, the 30 Carbine is a tapered wall (although many think it's straight) cartridge that headspaces off the case mouth. This is the only caliber I load for that I don't gauge, and that's because nobody makes one. What is the challenge of making a case gauge for the caliber?

[mdevlin53]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/525057/forster-headspace-no-go-gauge-30-carbine

they also list a a field gauge and a go gauge if thats what you're looking for.

[308Jeff]

Thank you, sir.

What I'm looking for a is an actual case gauge like the offerings from Lyman, Dillon, etc.

Want to check my resized cases to see if they're made it to SAAMI chamber specs.

[Echo]

It could be that your Carbine chamber may not be as generous as some older items. I never had any problem with my DCM Carbine, loading mixed GI brass with the Lee 120-gr RNGC boolit over 14 grs H-110. Two/three inch groups @ 100 yds...

[mdevlin53]

At some point i will pick up a .308 size die (i have a ,309,311,314 and 316) i did not think i would ever use a 308. i think i have a member who is going to send me some 311410s to try with a plain base they may work out in the mil surp brass. meanwhile i have the brass sorted by headstamp and i will just load the cast in the commercial as it is working.
Echo I think you have it right its a tight chamber and short of having it reamed i will just go with what works.

[Outpost75]

As FYI, using Accurate 31-100T
197146 plainbased bullet in my WW2 Inland carbine, function is 100% reliable using 7.4 grains of Winchester AutoComp metered with RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #9, also with LD Rotor #14 for 11 grs Alliant #2400, also LD Rotor #18 13.5 grs. IMR4198 or 14 grs. IMR4227. ALL OF THESE run like a pony trotting, no leading with plainbased bullet sized .311 with Lee Liquid Alox, loaded in Starline brass. Accuracy is better than Armscor Ball ammo.

FYI the Ruger Blackhawk .30 carbine is more accurate at 100 yds. than the Inland M1!

[jimb16]

While the carbine does headspace on the case mouth you also need to remember that being a tapered case, it can stop short if the case isn't squeezed down enough. Case wall friction on the sides of the chamber can cause it to stop short of full chambering. Make sure you trim to proper length and that the sizing die is all the way down. Carbines were designed for a round nose bullet. Most will feed hollow points, but some won't. Flat points are problematic in carbines and may require ramp polishing to get them to feed as well as mag lip tweeking. Over the years I've owned nearly 30 different carbines. I still have 2 of them. Only one, a Saginaw, did nor like cast bullets. My favorite is the 130 gr. Lyman plain base. It shot well in all of them. I still use it even though I have a couple other carbine molds.

[Cottonpicker]

I have been using the Lyman 311359 115gr/gc sized .309 @ 1.65" OAL in an IBM Carbine with good results. I would try another mag before I got too involved in other issues. There are plenty of mags available now.

[1hole]

If cartridges feed well from one side of a staggered stack magazine but not the other you'll never change the ammo enough to made it feed from the offending side of the magazine because the ammo isn't the problem.

[mdevlin53]

I picked up a 5 round mag at a local gun shop on Tuesday and ran some dummy's trough it (311008) they were a bit better but not consistent enough to be reliable. This leads me to think that the feed ramp is the issue and i have done as much polishing as i feel comfortable with. When I think about what i am going to use this rifle for I don't think that the flat nose vs round makes much of a difference. Face it the carbine is not my go to hunting rifle and not my first choice when the food riots come so if i can get a reliable round to work at the range i will be happy.

[Grump]

I have been using the Lyman 311359 115gr/gc sized .309 @ 1.65" OAL in an IBM Carbine with good results. I would try another mag before I got too involved in other issues. There are plenty of mags available now.

THIS.

Only Boolit I've ever loaded in the Carbine because it works and I get 3-inch groups at 100 yards.

[GooseGestapo]

It's the magazines!!!

I started playing with the .30carbines about 18mos ago. I had a Plainfield that I picked up at LCS. It did much like yours with a 5-shot aftermarket magazine. Little better with another 15-shot aftermarket magazine. After buying a Korean made milspec magazine I got reliable feeding. I've since gotten two surplus WWII mags and they work perfectly.

To my dismay, I discovered that my Plainfield wasn't CMP allowed in the Carbine matches. So I traded for a 1943 Saginaw rebuild. Though the barrel is like new, the stock is a "loose" M2, so it throws "flyers" and the zero "wanders" Its a 12-MOA gun. 6" at 50yds. Sometimes it's the first shot that goes low. However, I "medaled" with it in my first match at Talladega.

I started out shooting Hornady and Sierra 110gr jacketed, but I had a Lee 120gr RNGC.
I loaded it and It shot well, as does the 113gr FNGC. I'm sizing.311".

I've found that the Lee .312" 90gr RN powdercoated shoots as good as the jacketed, and that with #2400, the brass is ejected over my head behind me in a neat pile, instead of slightly foward in a wide fan as with H110/296. This puts them in the gravel at my local public range and makes brass HARD to find in the hoard of rusty steel cases...
I've found I like the Lee .312" 100gr even better, though the 6-cavity 90gr mold "rains" bullets...

P.s. I'm using mixed commercial brass. Mostly Armscor or PPU. I've got one small batch (70 or so) WCC milsurp cases.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Couple of things.

Magazines are funny thing in carbines. Make sure clips in. When I got my I had trouble with feeding.

I should have a 308 H&I sizer if you want it buy or trade. Now to the five round mags. How much did they run? I can used a couple. PA is letting us use the semis for some hunting. PM me Even have a couple of extra molds as buddies were going to cast for there other 30 calibers and now changed there minds, should have a DC 311359, open to trading.

Teddy

[Teddy (punchie)]

Subscribing so I can learn.

I'll second that.

[Teddy (punchie)]

I have been using the Lyman 311359 115gr/gc sized .309 @ 1.65" OAL in an IBM Carbine with good results. I would try another mag before I got too involved in other issues. There are plenty of mags available now.

Hey Picker what are you pushing you 311359's with and how much?

Teddy

[mdevlin53]

I have a lee 311-93 1R that I use in my 32-20 that i could try. I had read someplace that with such a light bullet you might not be able to cycle the action and i have no published loads for it as the cast book just lists two weights 115 and 130. I have 2400 and 4227 as well as RX7 and a couple more that might work. Where would i find some load data for a 90gr+- projectile?

[sutherpride59]

Subscribed to this one, when I get some down time this will be my next project.

[Harry O]

I haven't had any problems with my WWII era M-1 Carbine. It has a generous chamber. However, my Marlin Model 62 lever action in .30Carbine was a problem getting it to run. Making sure the bullets were sized down to 0.308" (or a bit smaller) is important. Any bulges in the case from oversized bullets are a problem. I didn't have any magazine problems.

One problem I did have that I have not seen mentioned so far is case length. The Marlin was cut with a very tight chamber. I measured a lot of cases and found that most I had were right at the maximum length. A few were slightly overlength (0.001" to 0.002"). When I loaded them, they invariably jammed. The ones that were slightly underlength fed and chambered OK. When they were overlength, the taper crimp left a small bulge. I shortened all of the cases 0.005" under the maximum length and have not had a problem since.

[Outpost75]

My WW2-era Inland likes Accurate 31-114D sized .311 with 14 grains of IMR4198, Starline brass, Federal 200 primer. Mold originally cut for .32-20, so drops .313" in wheelweights, so heavily sized here. The 4198 charge is the same as I load in the .32-20 for an original 1873 Winchester. Velocity only about 1400 fps but it does cycle the carbine reliably. No gascheck, no leading either!

I have a 4-cavity mold, two cavities drop solids at 114 grains in wheelweights, two cavities were converted using Erik Ohlen's inset bar at www.hollowpointmold.com to provide 110-grain cup-points.

197396197397

Next range trip will shoot groups with same charge using Accurate 31-100T and 31-120TG which are cut to fit my M1 carbine and Ruger Blackhawk.

197398197399

[308Jeff]

My WW2-era Inland likes Accurate 31-114D sized .311 with 14 grains of IMR4198, Starline brass, Federal 200 primer. Mold originally cut for .32-20, so drops .313" in wheelweights, so heavily sized here. The 4198 charge is the same as I load in the .32-20 for an original 1873 Winchester. Velocity only about 1400 fps but it does cycle the carbine reliably. No gascheck, no leading either!




If it's not too much trouble, and if you have time, would love to see a pic of a loaded round with the 31-114D.

[Outpost75]

If it's not too much trouble, and if you have time, would love to see a pic of a loaded round with the 31-114D.

197440

Quick & dirty, but here it is...

[308Jeff]

Nice. Thanks!

[Cherokee]

The 311359 Lyman is THE bullet for M1 Carbine, IMHO. I use 10.2 gr AA-9 @ 1600 fps and get as good accuracy as you can get from the GI sights at 100 yd.

[jeepvet]

I am just sitting here and reading this and do not have any of my information or data in front of me. I have a Universal commercial 30 carbine and an Inland WWII GI 30 carbine. I too had FTF issues with both unless I used ball ammo. Anything with exposed lead would not feed.

Then I found the Sierra Varmiter 110 HP J-word bullet. I load them over IMR 2400 and my rifles eat them up. Absolutely NO feed problems. You can remove the center of the target at 100 yds all day long. The Universal has become my go to doe rifle. I will take neck shots at 75 yds all day and fill the freezer fast.

I plan to cast for the 30 carbine and have a Lee mold for that purpose. The only time that I tried however, I had issues with the boolits not filling out completely at the lube grove. I will get that fixed so that I can at least plink with cast. I am hoping that the cast boolits from COWW will be hard enough that they will feed correctly.

If anyone is interested in the powder load or mold info I use, PM me and I will look it up and send or post it tonight or tomorrow.

Jim

[abunaitoo]

I've been trying to get my WWII, 1942 barrel, slugged at .308, carbine to shoot 2" to 3" at 100yds.
50yds is not a problem.
Tried plain base 115gr with no luck.
Now using a Lyman 311359 sized to 309, .310, and .311. Size didn't make a difference.
Tried AA#9, 2400, Blue Dot, and I4227.
I4227/11.0gr best so far.
No idea how fast it's going.
Tried 10.5, 11.5, 12.0, 12.5.
Got worse as load went up.
I did try it with both .309 and .310.
I even tried to partial size the shells to kind of neck size only.
Ran into feeding problems.
I'll try some I4198.
I'd also like to try some Lee 120gr if someone is willing to send me some.

[Outpost75]

Never saw any carbine that would shoot 2 inches at 100 with any load at 100 yards, except by random variations of chance and a lucky group which could not be duplicated. But 3 inches is attainable.

[mdevlin53]

Teddy
the five round mags were about 20.00 a pop. i got two (all the store had) for hunting as an auto has to have less then 10 in Maine. i use lee push through sizers so your .308 would not work on my bench.
abunaitoo
How do factory rounds group at 100, you may be asking more than the carbine can do. I just put the last of my Lee 120 gr in brass and i am not sure when i am going to get to casting again.

I am still looking for anybody who has data on a 90 grain the carbine. Anybody tried it and did they get good results.

[Outpost75]

I use the 90-grain Hornady XTP .309" bullet for the 7.62x25 Tokarev with 14.5 grains of IMR4227, is da Bomb on varmints and accurate. The 87- and 93- grain softpoints for .30 Luger and .30 Mauser from Hornady, Sierra, Norma, all work well with same charge. RCBS Little Dandy rotor #18.

[Larry Gibson]

I use H110 almost exclusively for reloading cast and jacketed bullets.

13.5 gr H110 under the 311359, 1875 fps....my standard go to load cast bullet load.

14 gr H110 under the 313631 (105 gr SWC for the 32 H&R), 1950 fps....my standard cast bullet hunting load.

15.5 gr H110 under the 110 gr Hornady half jacket, 1940 fps.....an excellent all around jacketed load.

15 gr H110 under the Hornady 90 gr XTP, 2160 fps,.....probably the best jacketed SD and small game/vermin jacketed load for the 30 Carbine.

197706

Larry Gibson

[Cottonpicker]

I've been using 2400 in my M1 carbine loads with the 311359. 11.5grs with a small rifle magnum primer works for me.

[308Jeff]

Impressive. I've been looking at the 90gr XTP for years, but read of some folks having feeding issues. That's a great 10 shot group out of a carbine though.

[abunaitoo]

I don't remember ever shooting factory ammo.
Maybe I should try.


Teddy
the five round mags were about 20.00 a pop. i got two (all the store had) for hunting as an auto has to have less then 10 in Maine. i use lee push through sizers so your .308 would not work on my bench.
abunaitoo
How do factory rounds group at 100, you may be asking more than the carbine can do. I just put the last of my Lee 120 gr in brass and i am not sure when i am going to get to casting again.

I am still looking for anybody who has data on a 90 grain the carbine. Anybody tried it and did they get good results.

[abunaitoo]

Don't have any H110, but people say Win296 is the same thing.
Is that correct????
I think I may have tried Win296. I'll have to check the records.

[mdevlin53]

I hear people talk about Win 296 but like Bigfoot I have never seen it.
When i bought my carbine i asked the dealer to throw in a box or two of ammo and he did, only the third time a dealer ever did this. But i shot it to establish a baseline for accuracy in that the rounds were Mil Spec and what was designed for the carbine, I am still working up loads and have not shot at 100 yet but the 120 lee boolit seems to do as well as factory at 50 and once i take it out again i will do a comparison at 100.

[308Jeff]

Winchester 296 and H110 are identical. The only difference is the name/label.

197718

I've been using AA #9 for 30 Carbine, but I have 5 lbs of Win 296 I may use if I run out.

[308Jeff]

I use H110 almost exclusively for reloading cast and jacketed bullets.

13.5 gr H110 under the 311359, 1875 fps....my standard go to load cast bullet load.

14 gr H110 under the 313631 (105 gr SWC for the 32 H&R), 1950 fps....my standard cast bullet hunting load.

15.5 gr H110 under the 110 gr Hornady half jacket, 1940 fps.....an excellent all around jacketed load.

15 gr H110 under the Hornady 90 gr XTP, 2160 fps,.....probably the best jacketed SD and small game/vermin jacketed load for the 30 Carbine.

197706

Larry Gibson

Look what you made me do.
198127

[Larry Gibson]

One of the steps to appease addiction is atonement.......you should send 3 or 4 of those to me so I could sympathize with you........:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[308Jeff]

Do I have to send you the free fillet knife I got too?