Interesting alloy charts from the metals industry

[cbrick]

Check out the charts on the American Tin & Solder Co. (http://www.american-tinandsolder.com/index.htm) web site. Various alloy percentages, casting temps, solidus & liquidus temps and a lot more. I have never contacted them so I have no idea what a minimum order may be but the charts they list are interesting at the very least.

Rick

[felix]

Notice the pouring temps of the high copper alloys. Info only. We would not use this to make boolits, but only to use as an augmenter to introduce copper into our shootable mixes. ... felix

[leftiye]

That ATS #3 would be an interesting alloy mixed 1 to 8 or 9 with pure. Wonder how hard that would be.

[Glen]

ATS #3AL is listed as being 3% antimony, which has a BHN of about 12. Diluting that down to roughly 0.5% antimony would give an alloy with a BHN of about 7.5.

ATS #3 has 8% copper in it. I don't have any data on the lead-tin-copper alloy hardness.

[felix]

Don't know, but high enough to work fine, I bet. If experimenting, do NOT melt a bar and refreeze it. Instead saw off an exact weight, or just melt in what you'd think would be close enough in weight to mix into the pot full of stuff already melted and fluxed. Reflux the pot after installing the amount of babbit required for the experiment. (Mark the bar with magic marker into one ounce sections would be my method). ... felix

[cbrick]

I think lefteye is looking at ATS #3 under tin-lead babbit and Glen is looking at ATS3AL under white metal pewter. Two different metals.

ATS #3 tin-lead babbit is listed at 27 BHN with 8% antimony with 464 degree solidus and 792 liquidus temp and a pouring temp of 915F.

The pewter is listed at 3% antimony and 483 degrees solidus and 574 degrees liquidus, a casting temp range of 650 to 850 degrees. I didn't see a BHN for this alloy listed.

At any rate I think that either ATS 3AL or ATS 4AL with a bit of tin added would be some good stuff. In fact, with 2% tin added to either you would in effect have virgin metal wheel weight alloy.

I emailed them for info on minimum quantity orders and current prices. If and when I get a reply I'll post it here.

Rick

[Old Ironsights]

I kind of like ATS#4X & #14. Between the two you could probably do a lot.

[cbrick]

Recieved this email response from American Tin & Solder, hhmmm . . . I wasn't smart enough to ask about shipping, guess I'll have to email back & ask. They are in Rhode Island.

There is a 500 lb minimum on those alloys. Cost is as follows;

3AL........................$1.40lb
4AL........................$1.44lb
3AL 2%tin..............$1.65lb
4AL 2%tin..............$1.69lb

Given what some folks have been paying for scrap and/or filthy dirty WW $1.40 a pound for virgin 97% lead / 3% antimony (ATS 3AL) seems not to bad to me. Well, except for that pesky shipping thing.

Rick

[leftiye]

CbRick is right, I was looking at the babbit because it is 8% copper, 8% antimony, negligible lead, a touch of arsenic and bismuth. I recently made some 10% tin 1% copper , 89% lead alloy. It was BHN 18. With 1% antimony added this stuff might be pretty hard. Group buy?

[runfiverun]

about 1.5 oz give or take to 10 lbs pure would be quite interesting with ats#3
wonder if tin would be needed??
and getting to 950* to keep it in solution. thinking what 18 b.h.n. here?
i notice they do have a percentage of zinc in them also......

[Bass Ackward]

i notice they do have a percentage of zinc in them also......


I suspect that not too far down the road, we are going to see percentages of zinc increase in everything due to all the recycling efforts. Especially if the intended purpose doesn't merit the extra steps to reduce / remove it, ie WW.

So purchasing a good mix in a large enough quantity that you can get used to, may be a very attractive option for some folks.

Good site Rick.

[GabbyM]

I buy my metal from Mayco Industries in Granite City, Illinois. It's the Lawrence plant. About four hours driving time round trip plus an hour or so to load out. 500 lb minimum but you get 10 cents off if you buy over 1,000 lbs. Another 10 cents if you purchase over 3 ton. I can only haul one ton at a time on our little motorcycle trailer.

$1.30 per lb for 2/6 bullet alloy last time I went down. That's with the ten cents discount for over ½ ton. When I calculate my cost I figure $1.50 per lb. Hard for me to figure what it cost me to drive down their.

They will make custom alloys with a minimum one ton order. 2/7, 2/6 and 20:1 are their stock bullet alloys. The ingots are 24lb with two notches to break into three 8 + lb bars.

Market lead is back up to .97 from a low of .70 on 03 July. Maybe I need to spend more time watching the lead market? It's up .05 today so far.

Was just thinking perhaps next time I plan a trip down to post here to see if anyone would like a 50 lb box or two. Don't want to look like a profiteer though. Been through that with the local gun club when I offered to pick up half ton of bird shot for their trap shooting. All I ask for was a tank of gas.

[cbrick]

Got an answer from American Tin & Solder on my shipping charges question, doesn't really answer much.

Shipping can cost anywhere from $.04 per/lb to $.23 per/lb. Depending on how much you order and where it’s going. Allen

leftiye suggested a group buy, interesting idea but would be a bit difficult to do. Someone would have to get a ton or more delivered to them with the current per pound price AND shipping charges, then repackage it and pay shipping again to the final user. A lot of work for somebody plus paying shipping charges twice for the end user. Anybody know how to accomplish this without running the final price well over $2.00 a pound? Plus a group buy would have to settle on one alloy out of a huge range of different alloys available. Also, I made the assumption that this company is selling virgin metals but in reality I don't know if it is or recycled scrap or even a combination of both. Knowing this could also affect who would want to be in on a group buy.

Also, if a group buy is seriously considered for virgin metals I would suggest some research into the best per pound price from various companies. I have no allegiance to American Tin & Solder or have any idea how their prices rank with other companies, I simply posted their web address with an interest in the charts of alloys they have.

Rick

[cbrick]

Yowzer . . . I just checked Midway for lead prices . . . over $4.00 per pound + shipping for straight lead.

I thought American Tin & Solder was a bit high at $1.40 a pound with 3% antimony. Guess I haven't paid any attention to alloy prices for a while huh.

I haven't yet had to pay for WW but sources are becoming scarce and what weights I have been finding have more and more steel, zinc etc. I have about 500 pounds of clip-on WW and about 350 pounds of stick-on weights all in ingots right now so I'm not hurting but still.

For those that haven't found free WW how much have you been paying for lead? Would there be any interest in a group buy? With American Tin & Solder highest stated shipping rate of .23 cents a pound 97/3 lead antimony would be $1.63 a pound delivered. Then probably flat rate shipping charges from the post office to the end user. Anyone that could handle the job of doing this? As a renter I'm not set up to be able to do it.

If a group buy is feasible with enough interest and someone that can make the effort to accomplish it I would be interested in pricing 96.5% lead, 3% antimony, .5% arsenic (wheel weight alloy). By ordering this from the metals industry we should be able to get valid BHN, solidus, liquidus numbers and certified percentages of metals in the alloy.

Any or enough interest?

Rick

[Old Ironsights]

My last batch cost me $20/bucket for 440lbs (4 buckets)

[yodar]

Recieved this email response from American Tin & Solder, hhmmm . . . I wasn't smart enough to ask about shipping, guess I'll have to email back & ask. They are in Rhode Island.

There is a 500 lb minimum on those alloys. Cost is as follows;

3AL........................$1.40lb
4AL........................$1.44lb
3AL 2%tin..............$1.65lb
4AL 2%tin..............$1.69lb

Given what some folks have been paying for scrap and/or filthy dirty WW $1.40 a pound for virgin 97% lead / 3% antimony (ATS 3AL) seems not to bad to me. Well, except for that pesky shipping thing.

Rick
I get my lead from Leo's Lead on fleabay, $1.00 lb FOB DELIVERED
in 50lb lots. His sources are rifle berms and wheelweights, They cast fine, I alloy them with a dash of pure tin and a scoop of magnum shot for pistol and rifle

yodar