Much Force for Neck Expnding with NOE & Lee combo

[RadarsRUs]

Curious if anyone uses a lube or wax product to reduce effort needed to use the NOE expander plugs with .44, .357 and 9mm brass. Trying to avoid swaging down Boolits sizes for these calibers. Bought the NOE neck expander plugs to use with Lee die and finished results are excellent.

Problem is that it is requiring LOTS of down force and prying-out force to perform this step on a pacific single-stage press. Wants to lift or flip the top of my reloading bench!

Guess I'm going to have to do as independent prep. stage to feed this expanded brass into my Horndy LNL-AP for production Ammo.

I am an accuracy hound so do need to have this step in brass-prep for cast slugs, but as the old expression goes... There's got to be a better way here somewhere???

Eager to hear any ideas, comments.

[guicksylver]

I have gone to using "One Shot" spray wax (lube) and have gotten excellent results after having experiencing exactly the same situation with the same combo you are using..

[Silverboolit]

Imperial Sizing Lube.

[Hairy Dawg]

When expanding 300 BO cases, I use the Imperial dry neck lube. I use it on every 4th or 5th case, & it seems to make things run much smoother.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

New brass can be troublesome when it comes to expanding the mouth (same with super clean used brass), especially when it's been sized down with a FL Die that's made for j-words . The age tarnish and remnants of burnt residue inside a used case will act as a lube, making the expanding of used brass that hasn't been super cleaned, much easier.

What I do, when expanding the case mouths of new brass, is use the same lube as I have on the boolits that I am loading (it's on my fingers anyway), and smear/scrape a tiny bit on the inside edge of the case mouth of every 5th case I'm expanding...I will adjust that quantity as needed.

[dondiego]

I do the same as JonB but I keep a spray bottle of Dillon case lube nearby and run my finger over the spout which is usually covered in lanolin. I have also sprayed a little on the NOE expander plug too.

[KVO]

After experiencing the same issue, I have started to give the expanders a quick touch with 800 grit automotive wet or dry sand paper, after that lube in the form of Dillon case lube or Ballistol applied with a Q-Tip for about two dozen cases as a final break in. It seems that the expanders' machined finish, while visually good, is not smooth enough for our purposes straight off the machine. I use all mine in a Hornady progressive with no extra lube for pistol calibers without trouble after an initial break in. I just about tore the rims off of some 6.5x55 brass even w/ lube when I first tried them. All is well now!

[243winxb]

The land for expanding case mouth is too long and when you begin to bell mouth the bottom of expander gets into the thicker taper of case and wedges causing it to be very hard to get back out. Increasing radius on end and slightly shortening expanding land and this may eliminated the problem completely. (From Starline Brass)https://www.starlinebrass.com/faqs/

[RadarsRUs]

Great Responses here gentlemen. Thank you very much! I was thinking of taking down the machined finish with some very fine paper and it sounds like this has worked for others. A particularly Good piece of news is that "KVO" is able to use in his Hornady LNL-AP (which I use too) as just a regular step in the 1st die location without it screwing-up the works.

As usual , Just a Fantastic site for shooting and boolit casting people of all experience levels. I'm Just starting the Casting thing but have been reloaded the "Full-Gascheck" variety for years.

[country gent]

If you sizing in a die on the small side and expanding a couple thousands bigger than normal you are expanding the cases quite a bit more than normal brass on the hard side and spring back becomes a part of the issue also. A good polish and accurate alighnment helps a lot here as does lubing the case mouths necks lightly. Motor mica moly or graphite all work for dry lubes Imperial die wax, stp or even gear oil works for wet lubes. I made a simple neck lube tool from a copper 1" pipe cap drilled and tapped a 8-32 hole in center and then soldered a nut in it for more threads. This set on the bench with motor mica in it and a cotton bore swab in the appropriate caliber installed. Run case over it into the lube and pull out the swab applies a even coat of lube. once the swab is impregnated you only need to dip every 4-5 case into the lube, the swab will hold enough for the 4-5 in between.

[JohnH]

The age tarnish and remnants of burnt residue inside a used case will act as a lube, making the expanding of used brass that hasn't been super cleaned, much easier. At the risk of becoming a heretic as I've read others saying this as well, this simply has not been my experience. I spent years not cleaning brass at all, I shot mainly low pressure loads and just simply didn't see the point. Cases became very sticky in the expander die, to the point that I began using a Q-tip I would wet with Lee case lube and wipe the inside of the cases with prior to reloading. This worked quite well. I primarily use Felix lube, even on handgun boolits, but also use 45-45-10. What really made a difference was wet tumbling and using Mothers Carnauba Wash and Wax with Jet Dry. (folk are prolly tired of me speaking to this) This leaves a slick to the touch finish on the cases and they run through the sizing and expanding dies very smoothly. I have over the last year noticed a reduction in the number of cases I loose from splitting as well. I am convinced that the combination of clean cases and the wax on them from the cleaning reduces the friction in the dies to a point that reduces the work hardening of the brass. I haven't had any issues with sticky brass in the expander dies since I began using this cleaning method.

[fatelvis]

What really made a difference was wet tumbling and using Mothers Carnauba Wash and Wax with Jet Dry.
That is interesting. Will the wax eliminate the need to lube cases for sizing?

[dragon813gt]

W/ new Starline brass I tumble them in crushed walnut treated w/ Nu-Finish. This cuts down on galling but doesn't always eliminate it. To eliminate it, especially w/ the NOE expanders, I spray the cases w/ a homemade mixture of lanolin/alcohol. It's the same as Dillon case lube. W/ the expanders I spray the plugs directly. After some use they stay lubricated thanks to the cases being lubed. Almost all my pistol brass is Starline and their new brass drives me nuts w/ galling. Being perfectly clean isn't always an advantage.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The age tarnish and remnants of burnt residue inside a used case will act as a lube, making the expanding of used brass that hasn't been super cleaned, much easier.
At the risk of becoming a heretic as I've read others saying this as well, this simply has not been my experience. I spent years not cleaning brass at all, I shot mainly low pressure loads and just simply didn't see the point. Cases became very sticky in the expander die, to the point that I began using a Q-tip I would wet with Lee case lube and wipe the inside of the cases with prior to reloading. This worked quite well. I primarily use Felix lube, even on handgun boolits, but also use 45-45-10. What really made a difference was wet tumbling and using Mothers Carnauba Wash and Wax with Jet Dry. (folk are prolly tired of me speaking to this) This leaves a slick to the touch finish on the cases and they run through the sizing and expanding dies very smoothly. I have over the last year noticed a reduction in the number of cases I loose from splitting as well. I am convinced that the combination of clean cases and the wax on them from the cleaning reduces the friction in the dies to a point that reduces the work hardening of the brass. I haven't had any issues with sticky brass in the expander dies since I began using this cleaning method.

I should probably clarify, because the way I worded that, makes it sound like I am not cleaning my cases. They are clean, if I were to wipe the inside of the case with a dry Q-tip, the Q-tip would look clean...but there is a patina inside the case, that I surmise is acting like a lube.

How I clean my pistol brass that was loaded with lubed boolits that I've shot. They will get tumbled (for 30 minutes) in corn cob media that has been treated with about a teaspoon of Automotive polishing compound paste that has been thinned with Iso alcohol and a few drops of cheap liquid automotive car wax.

With that technique, my used brass cases will size and expand fairly easy. I've tried tumbling new starline brass using that same technique, and was still difficult to expand...maybe I should try a bit more car wax in the media and try that again with the new brass.

[dragon813gt]

maybe I should try a bit more car wax in the media and try that again with the new brass.

Been there, done that. Case lube when new was the only way I could prevent galling. After firing for the first time everything is back to normal where case lube is no longer needed. You may have better luck but more Nu-Finish didn't work for me.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have some new 500 S&W Mag Starline,,,I forgot to prelube the first one or two and I nearly broke the press off the bench, til I did my usual trace smear of boolit lube on the edge of the case mouth.

Maybe I'll just have to do the Hornady One shot thing, then expand, then tumble them in clean/dry corncob media, like I do with Rifle brass FL sizing.

[JohnH]

That is interesting. Will the wax eliminate the need to lube cases for sizing?Not on rifle cases It works wonders for pistol brass though. I believe I could get away with no lube on 7.62x39 cases but am certain I could not on 308 cases

[JohnH]

I should probably clarify, because the way I worded that, makes it sound like I am not cleaning my cases. They are clean, if I were to wipe the inside of the case with a dry Q-tip, the Q-tip would look clean...but there is a patina inside the case, that I surmise is acting like a lube.

How I clean my pistol brass that was loaded with lubed boolits that I've shot. They will get tumbled (for 30 minutes) in corn cob media that has been treated with about a teaspoon of Automotive polishing compound paste that has been thinned with Iso alcohol and a few drops of cheap liquid automotive car wax.

With that technique, my used brass cases will size and expand fairly easy. I've tried tumbling new starline brass using that same technique, and was still difficult to expand...maybe I should try a bit more car wax in the media and try that again with the new brass. I never had great luck with vibratory cleaners. I use mine to knock the dirt off and initially clean up range pick up. After that it is wet tumble all the way. I also don't run full pressue loads much and have no doubt that could make a difference as well. But my loads haven't changed much. There is also areal difference in pull required on 223 cases. Much slicker with the wet tumble and I do run full pressure loads there.

[goryshaw]

That is interesting. Will the wax eliminate the need to lube cases for sizing?

It will get you some practice at using your stuck case remover.